Explain Galatians 2:15-21

[Rollo Tamasi]

the way i see it, opponents of Paul are saying that relying on Christ alone empties the law of any meaning.
Paul answers by saying that adding the law to Christ empties his death on the cross of any meaning.
What is your take?

 

[heymikey80]

I think we're looking at Paul's attempt to apply one issue -- Peter's withdrawal from Gentiles -- to another -- Galatians' withdrawal from Gentiles in circumcision and law.

Ignore Peter's motivation (he's not writing, I think his motives may have been beside the point). Paul attacks how Peter's actions were interpreted: Gentiles at Antioch got the impression they were second-class, Jews that they were first-class, and Paul demanded Peter get with it, that they were no worse than Peter was. I think Paul illustrated this a number of ways to apply them in turn to Galatians:

• Judaism and Law doesn't help.
• Justification in/by Christ requires admission that we weren't justified, before.
• The Law was killing me, Christ is giving me life.
• If the Law gave me righteousness, Christ is useless.

 

[Mitspa]

the way i see it, opponents of Paul are saying that relying on Christ alone empties the law of any meaning.
Paul answers by saying that adding the law to Christ empties his death on the cross of any meaning.
What is your take?

Its the same point Paul makes over and over? The purpose of the law was to make all sinners. Thats its job! 2Cor3 the ministry of condemnation. Now we have been justified by faith in Christ. You cannot be justified by Christ and be a sinner!
Paul goes on to say that through the law we died to the law?
We must consider "RECKON" ourselves to have died with Christ. Now we live by His life and by the spirit.

How can one be a "sinner" which the law makes every man, and be justified by Faith? This is what James calls double minded!

 

[WIP]

The purpose of the law was to make all sinners.

Interesting statement. Is the purpose of the law to "make" us all sinners or expose us for what we are?

 

[Mitspa]

Interesting statement. Is the purpose of the law to "make" us all sinners or expose us for what we are?

Yes, Paul lays it out in very simple terms in the book of Gal.
The law was for the purpose of bringing us to Christ, but after we have been justified by faith in Him, the law can no longer make a charge of sin, against us. This is the clear point of the scriptures!

 

[nmwings]

In general, the book of Galatians is an argument against the law of the Pharisees (“doctrines of men”) which differs from the law of God given through Moses. It differs because they have added to and taken away from the original instructions. The #1 point of contention the Messiah had with the Pharisees was that they were NOT following what God had instructed through Moses. And the Pharisees told the new believers, “If you don’t do it our way you won’t be in the Kingdom!” This is where the "salvation through obedience" comes into play. But Moses NEVER taught "salvation through obedience," and Paul emphasises this fact in Gal 2:16. BTW: Judaism, an off-shoot of the Pharisees, teaches the same thing...


However, in Gal 2:19-20, Paul is reinforcing the law of God given through Moses and explaining the instuction (particularly the "tiddle" - as in the “jots and tiddles” - seen in the Hebrew text) of the Whole Burned offering at Lev 6:9.

In a nutshell, Paul is bashing the law of the Pharisees and upholding the law of God given through Moses.

 

[John 8:32]

In general, the book of Galatians is an argument against the law of the Pharisees (“doctrines of men”) which differs from the law of God given through Moses. It differs because they have added to and taken away from the original instructions. The #1 point of contention the Messiah had with the Pharisees was that they were NOT following what God had instructed through Moses. And the Pharisees told the new believers, “If you don’t do it our way you won’t be in the Kingdom!” This is where the "salvation through obedience" comes into play. But Moses NEVER taught "salvation through obedience," and Paul emphasises this fact in Gal 2:16. BTW: Judaism, an off-shoot of the Pharisees, teaches the same thing...


However, in Gal 2:19-20, Paul is reinforcing the law of God given through Moses and explaining the instuction (particularly the "tiddle" - as in the “jots and tiddles” - seen in the Hebrew text) of the Whole Burned offering at Lev 6:9.

In a nutshell, Paul is bashing the law of the Pharisees and upholding the law of God given through Moses.

Very good nmwings, you have shown keen insight here.

 

[John 8:32]

The purpose of the law was to make all sinners. Thats its job!

Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

Deu 30:8 And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
Deu 30:9 And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
Deu 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
Deu 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Deu 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Psa 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.

God, Moses, David, a whole host of other personalities including Paul...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Disagree with you.

Paul says the problem is not the law it is us...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[heymikey80]

I think the point of legalism not being part of Mosaic Law itself is good, and it brings up a secondary issue to check out.

What does the Mosaic Law mean by, "The one who does these shall live by them" Gal 3:12 / Lev 18:5 ? To me Paul uses this on a narrow point in Galatians, that following the Law is not from faith but from work. In Leviticus the statement seems essentially to be saying that God allows the lawkeeper to live ... in Israel ... in the normal life in this Creation.

The legalistic mistake seems to be that lawkeeping would change God's mind about saving someone, not simply stay His hand within this corrupt Creation and allow people to live long on the earth.

 

[Mitspa]

In general, the book of Galatians is an argument against the law of the Pharisees (“doctrines of men”) which differs from the law of God given through Moses. It differs because they have added to and taken away from the original instructions. The #1 point of contention the Messiah had with the Pharisees was that they were NOT following what God had instructed through Moses. And the Pharisees told the new believers, “If you don’t do it our way you won’t be in the Kingdom!” This is where the "salvation through obedience" comes into play. But Moses NEVER taught "salvation through obedience," and Paul emphasises this fact in Gal 2:16. BTW: Judaism, an off-shoot of the Pharisees, teaches the same thing...


However, in Gal 2:19-20, Paul is reinforcing the law of God given through Moses and explaining the instuction (particularly the "tiddle" - as in the “jots and tiddles” - seen in the Hebrew text) of the Whole Burned offering at Lev 6:9.

In a nutshell, Paul is bashing the law of the Pharisees and upholding the law of God given through Moses.

So when Paul states that it is evident that NO MAN can be justified by the law, that he is really not talking to the Christians of Galitians but to the Pharisees? So then a Jew cannot be justified by the law, but everybody else can? What nonsense! No! the point is clear and evident!

It is satan who says "did God really say not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil"

1 COR 3 the ministry of death and condemnation, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

ONLY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WAS WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

You are cut off from Christ! who who are under law! You have fallen from grace and will be judged as enemies of Christ!

 

[John 8:32]

So when Paul states that it is evident that NO MAN can be justified by the law, that he is really not talking to the Christians of Galitians but to the Pharisees? So then a Jew cannot be justified by the law, but everybody else can? What nonsense! No! the point is clear and evident!

It is satan who says "did God really say not to eat from the tree of Knowledge of good and evil"

1 COR 3 the ministry of death and condemnation, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

ONLY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WAS WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

You are cut off from Christ! who who are under law! You have fallen from grace and will be judged as enemies of Christ!

Again, you read what you want, not what is said. No one is justified by the law, that does not do away with the law.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

What is this? A whole new set of books? Or are these the same 66 books books everyone is judged from?

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

 

[Mitspa]

Again, you read what you want, not what is said. No one is justified by the law, that does not do away with the law.

Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

What is this? A whole new set of books? Or are these the same 66 books books everyone is judged from?

Rom 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
Rom 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
Rom 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

News flash! The law written in their heart? The Holy Spirit!

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death.

WE WHO WALK IN THE SPIRIT ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO FULLFIL THE LAW. for the law is Spiritual!

See your problem is you must die to find life, you must become a fool to be made wise, you must become weak to be made strong!

I through the law have died to the law!

Personal insult removed.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Romans Chapter 14 verse one: "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters".
Please keep this in mind as you continue.

 

[Mitspa]

Romans Chapter 14 verse one: "Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgement on disputable matters".
Please keep this in mind as you continue.

"disputable matters" the issue of the law and our relationship to is not a "disputable matter" This is covered in every epistle and is at the very heart of the gospel! If you understand the gospel you would never call a discussion of the law and its purpose "disputable" it is EVIDENT that no man can be justified by the law. The heart of all heresy comes from those who attempt to justify themselves apart from true faith in Christ!

So think about why this issue is covered over and over in the New Testament! If you can see the purpose of the law then they can be saved from their sin! If they cannot see its true purpose they are yet in bondage to their flesh and sin

Personal insult removed.

 

[for_his_glory]

In these verses Paul was rebuking Peter as Peter thought Christ and his teachings were for the Jew only and the other disciples thought as Peter did. Peter considered all Gentiles as being heathens not worthy to be preached to. Paul was teaching Peter that man was not justified by the law as the laws were given to the Jews only to expose their sin, but certain parts of the law now fulfilled in Christ as being made the final blood sacrifice for our sins, now all Jew and Gentile can be justified by that of Gods grace through that of Christ Jesus.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

 

[nmwings]

So when Paul states that it is evident that NO MAN can be justified by the law, that he is really not talking to the Christians of Galitians but to the Pharisees? So then a Jew cannot be justified by the law, but everybody else can? What nonsense!

This statement is what is “nonsense.â€

1 COR 3 the ministry of death and condemnation, WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

ONLY THE TEN COMMANDMENTS WAS WRITTEN AND ENGRAVED ON STONES!

Judging a book by its cover (or title) will lead you astray. Indeed, 2 Cor 3:7 calls the Law of God “deathâ€and “condemnation†because whoever disobeys will die. Some deaths are physical while others (more serious offenses) are spiritual deaths (damnation.) Just because a person dies a physical death because of their disobedience does not automatically mean they are not saved. It just means they died because they refused to obey. (For example, a person will not be condemned spiritually for eating pork, but they just might end up with heart disease, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and possibly food poisoning and end up dying prematurely for doing so.)

Most people overlook what Paul explains in 2 Cor 3:9. That the Covenant in Stone came with GLORY so profound that it manifested itself from the spiritual plane into the physical by making the face of Moses shine so brilliant no one could look upon him. He then says that as wonderful as that was, this renewed Covenant in the Flesh foretold in Jer 31:33 in which the Law of God would be written on our hearts (not abolished) is THAT much better. Paul is not diminishing the glory of the Law itself, but trying to emphasize how much better it is compared with the redemptive work of the Messiah.

On a side note, please don’t confuse the “glory†seen on Moses’ face that had diminished over time as the “glory†of the Covenant itself, as I fear you have.

You are cut off from Christ! who who are under law! You have fallen from grace and will be judged as enemies of Christ!

You confuse legalism (following the legalistic determinations of men such as the Pharisees and Judaism) with obedience (following the commandments of God.) The Lord has not called us to be legalistic, He has called us to be obedient. The Messiah then challenges us by saying, “If you love Me, obey My commandments.†1 John 2:3-4 sums it up quite eloquently by saying, “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.â€

 

[Mitspa]

In these verses Paul was rebuking Peter as Peter thought Christ and his teachings were for the Jew only and the other disciples thought as Peter did. Peter considered all Gentiles as being heathens not worthy to be preached to. Paul was teaching Peter that man was not justified by the law as the laws were given to the Jews only to expose their sin, but certain parts of the law now fulfilled in Christ as being made the final blood sacrifice for our sins, now all Jew and Gentile can be justified by that of Gods grace through that of Christ Jesus.

The only laws that were done away with or fulfilled were that of the Temple and the sacrifices as the physical Temple and it's sacrifices no longer exist under grace by Christ fulfillment of them, Matthew 5:17,18. We are now that temple that the Holy Spirit dwells in, not our flesh for that will turn back to the dust of the ground and will never enter the kingdom of God, but that of our spirit making union with that of Gods Spirit through His grace that is freely given, not by works, but as a fee gift of Gods love, Mark 7:14-23; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19; Ephesians 2:8-18.

The books of the NT are not part of the Hebrew scriptures (Torah or the Tanakh), but that of instruction of Gods righteousness as God has given first to the Hebrew a new covenant of grace and then extended His grace to those outside of Israel (Gentiles) the same free gift of His grace, Romans 15:16. When we being that of a Gentile nation partake in that of Christ life, death and resurrection our inner man (spirit, not this flesh) is renewed by that of Gods Holy Spirit, John 3:5, 6, as we are led by the Holy Spirit to guide us and teach us all truths, John 14:26, but we are still under the moral laws of Gods commandments that are written upon our hearts that we need to keep until that of Christ return.

There are laws that were especially written just for the Hebrews pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite and then there are the existing moral laws for us to still follow as in prayers and blessings, love and brotherhood, the poor and unfortunate, treatment of the Gentiles, Marriage, divorce and family, forbidden sexual relations, business practices, employees and servants, vows, oaths, swearing, Court and Judicial procedures, injuries and damages, property and property rights, Criminal laws, prophecy, idolatry and all its practices as the moral laws keep us in line with the will of God that we present ourselves a vessel of honor that God delights in as we allow that light of Christ shines in us and through us as a testimony of Gods grace and mercy as it is not ourselves that do any good thing, but Gods Spirit working in us and through us as we surrender our will to that of Gods will to be done.

So your trying to establish that part of the law is fulfilled in Christ and part of it is still in effect?

So When Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass away until it was all fulfilled. Did he get it wrong? Or do you have it wrong? Is it just the 10 commandments? The ministry of death and condemnation written is stone 2 Cor 3

So do you keep the sabbath? you know thats one of the 10 commandments?

Personal insult removed.

No Paul made the point very clear! If you keep one part of the law, you must keep it all. And he makes direct reference to the 10 commandments over and over in his discussion of the law.

Personal insult removed.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Ecclesiastes 7:9

"Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the lap of fools".

 

[jasoncran]

In general, the book of Galatians is an argument against the law of the Pharisees (“doctrines of menâ€) which differs from the law of God given through Moses. It differs because they have added to and taken away from the original instructions. The #1 point of contention the Messiah had with the Pharisees was that they were NOT following what God had instructed through Moses. And the Pharisees told the new believers, “If you don’t do it our way you won’t be in the Kingdom!†This is where the "salvation through obedience" comes into play. But Moses NEVER taught "salvation through obedience," and Paul emphasises this fact in Gal 2:16. BTW: Judaism, an off-shoot of the Pharisees, teaches the same thing...


However, in Gal 2:19-20, Paul is reinforcing the law of God given through Moses and explaining the instuction (particularly the "tiddle" - as in the “jots and tiddles†- seen in the Hebrew text) of the Whole Burned offering at Lev 6:9.

In a nutshell, Paul is bashing the law of the Pharisees and upholding the law of God given through Moses.

you mean the 613 laws found in the torah?

 

[Mitspa]

Ecclesiastes 7:9

"Do not be quickly provoked in your spirit, for anger resides in the lap of fools".

Yes Paul was making a very good point when he called those who thought themselves able to keep the law! Oh you foolish Galatians, who has cast an evil spell on you? Was Christ not crucified? Yes I bet Paul was angry with those who blasphemed and rejected the grace of Christ!

He was right in his anger and God will be just in His wrath against those who reject salvation.