Explain Galatians 2:15-21

[Deborah13]

the way i see it, opponents of Paul are saying that relying on Christ alone empties the law of any meaning.
Paul answers by saying that adding the law to Christ empties his death on the cross of any meaning.
What is your take?

That's pretty much what it says in a nut shell.

 

[Deborah13]

Galatians 3:13-14

King James Version (KJV)

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Yes all 613 Laws of Moses which include the 10 Commandments, the letter engraved on stone, were a curse if not obeyed to the letter of the law every jot and tittles worth.

We have a choice, we can live by the law which includes blessing and cursing or we can live by the blessing of Abraham by grace through faith that's not of works least any man should boast.





Acts 15:5-10

King James Version (KJV)

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

These Jews had accepted the saving grace of God. They had lived under the bondage of the Law of Moses and Peter entreats them to not put the Gentiles under this bondage that they themselves could not bear, they couldn't do it. He says they are tempting God.

 

[Mike]

Some posts were deleted or edited. If you're already angry when enter a thread like this, you might be better to keep moving on to the rest of the threads. Further insults will increase the level of action we need to take.

No. More. Personal. Insults.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

thank you Deborah, very well put.

 

[Mitspa]

Some posts were deleted or edited. If you're already angry when enter a thread like this, you might be better to keep moving on to the rest of the threads. Further insults will increase the level of action we need to take.

No. More. Personal. Insults.

I see that I must not understand the definition of a "personal insult" please be kind enough to explain? So that I might not transgress to rules of the forum.

 

[nmwings]

you mean the 613 laws found in the torah?

I am hesitant to respond to your question given our past history. I am hoping your spirit of argument and debate has been calmed to a point where we can communicate in a pleasant manner. I suppose only time will tell…

I am not sure what you are asking, so I will say this to clarify: Paul teaches and upholds the 613 commandments found in the Torah, and he opposes the law made up and enforced by the Pharisees.

 

[nmwings]

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us:

This passage states that the Messiah was made a curse. He purchased us out (redeemed) us from a curse. While most assume this curse is the Torah, how can we as Gentiles be purchased back from something we never had? Conversely, how can the Jews be purchased back from something they already had? The answer is: the curse is not Torah. The curse is what faces mankind as a whole: death and eternal damnation. This is what we have been redeemed from. That’s why we call it “salvation.â€

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The blessing this passage is referring to is the same “gospel†(good news) that was proclaimed to Abraham in Gen:12:2-3 “I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; Andyou shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." The blessing of the Messiah came from the loins of Abraham (“in youâ€) and will be for all peoples (â€all families.â€) The Good News of the RE-renewed covenant wasn’t NEW at all… it had been planned since the foundations of the earth!.

Yes all 613 Laws of Moses which include the 10 Commandments, the letter engraved on stone, were a curse if not obeyed to the letter of the law every jot and tittles worth.

Do you not know that the blessings for obedience FAR OUTWEIGH the curses? See the wonderful things that will flow upon you when you are obedient in Deut 28:1-14.

Which jot or tiddle is too heavy to bear? I hope it isn’t the small aleph (“aâ€) in Vayikra (“Leviticus" 1:1) which teaches that “if you’re going to be called of the Lord your strength must be made small so His strength may be made large?†John the Baptist was fully aware of this tiddle and made this very testimony in John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease.â€

Nor do I think it is the inverted nuns (“n’sâ€) surrounding Num 10:35-36 that carries a profound teaching of both the Messiah’s resurrection after the crucifixion:
So it was, whenever the ark set out, that Moses said: [ "Rise up, O Lord! Let Your enemies be scattered, And let those who hate You flee before You." ]

And the resurrection of the saints at the end of the ages:

And when it rested, he said: [ "Return, O Lord, To the many thousands of Israel."]

The jots and tiddles in the Torah (Law of God) teach profound lessons that not only were true in the Messiah’s day, but also is just as true and profound into the future resurrection of the saints! A theology that abolishes the Torah, unwittingly abolishes the future resurrection of you and me.

These Jews had accepted the saving grace of God. They had lived under the bondage of the Law of Moses and Peter entreats them to not put the Gentiles under this bondage that they themselves could not bear, they couldn't do it. He says they are tempting God.

Notice who stood up and complained about Gentiles keeping law: the Pharisees! The same Pharisees who the Messiah rebuked for not following Moses, but lived according to THEIR laws (precepts of men) and not the Torah. They weren’t concerned with new believers obeying Moses… they wanted them to adhere to the Pharisaic laws….. of which indeed no man could possibly bear. It was politics. More converts, more money, more control.

What did Paul say was crucial for new believers to follow? From neck to groin they will abstain from the profane and unclean. (Acts 15:20) THEN, he reminds the council that new believers can hear further instructions in the synagogues every Sabbath. (Acts 15:21)

 

[digging]

I have enjoyed very much reading some of the great points made here, some real thinkers around here!

I have often wondered if the law of Moses was an expansion of the very first law mentioned in the Garden of Eden, 'do not touch, do not eat' and that action of taking and eating of the tree had the weight of the curse in it.

Digging

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

This passage states that the Messiah was made a curse. He purchased us out (redeemed) us from a curse. While most assume this curse is the Torah, how can we as Gentiles be purchased back from something we never had? Conversely, how can the Jews be purchased back from something they already had? The answer is: the curse is not Torah. The curse is what faces mankind as a whole: death and eternal damnation. This is what we have been redeemed from. That’s why we call it “salvation.”

The blessing this passage is referring to is the same “gospel” (good news) that was proclaimed to Abraham in Gen:12:2-3 “I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; Andyou shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." The blessing of the Messiah came from the loins of Abraham (“in you”) and will be for all peoples (”all families.”) The Good News of the RE-renewed covenant wasn’t NEW at all… it had been planned since the foundations of the earth!.
Do you not know that the blessings for obedience FAR OUTWEIGH the curses? See the wonderful things that will flow upon you when you are obedient in Deut 28:1-14.

Which jot or tiddle is too heavy to bear? I hope it isn’t the small aleph (“a”) in Vayikra (“Leviticus" 1:1) which teaches that “if you’re going to be called of the Lord your strength must be made small so His strength may be made large?” John the Baptist was fully aware of this tiddle and made this very testimony in John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease.”

Nor do I think it is the inverted nuns (“n’s”) surrounding Num 10:35-36 that carries a profound teaching of both the Messiah’s resurrection after the crucifixion:
So it was, whenever the ark set out, that Moses said: [ "Rise up, O Lord! Let Your enemies be scattered, And let those who hate You flee before You." ]

And the resurrection of the saints at the end of the ages:

And when it rested, he said: [ "Return, O Lord, To the many thousands of Israel."]

The jots and tiddles in the Torah (Law of God) teach profound lessons that not only were true in the Messiah’s day, but also is just as true and profound into the future resurrection of the saints! A theology that abolishes the Torah, unwittingly abolishes the future resurrection of you and me.


Notice who stood up and complained about Gentiles keeping law: the Pharisees! The same Pharisees who the Messiah rebuked for not following Moses, but lived according to THEIR laws (precepts of men) and not the Torah. They weren’t concerned with new believers obeying Moses… they wanted them to adhere to the Pharisaic laws….. of which indeed no man could possibly bear. It was politics. More converts, more money, more control.

What did Paul say was crucial for new believers to follow? From neck to groin they will abstain from the profane and unclean. (Acts 15:20) THEN, he reminds the council that new believers can hear further instructions in the synagogues every Sabbath. (Acts 15:21)

nmwings, i believe you are misquoting the meaning in acts 15:21.

this whole dialogue was speaking of the gentiles but to the jews.

the point is that the law is read in the synagogues for their sake, not the gentiles.

 

[digging]

I hope this will not be considered to of the topic theme......I am new to this in depth exchange about the place of the law with Christianity but in thinking more about this there is one more thing in Genesis I feel might be helpful. First we know this,

God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.'

However just the lone act of not eating the tree also did not give life! Two things were needed.....

"take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

So it would seem that just refraining from sin is not enough we also need to reach out with love as Christ showed us.

Romans 12:9 NAS

Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil ; cling to what is good.

Also here in 1Peter 3:... for http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-peter/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-18you were called for the very purpose that you might http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-peter/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-19inherit a blessing. 10 For, "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-peter/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT. 11 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-peter/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD ; HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT. 12 "http://www.biblestudytools.com/nas/1-peter/3.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS, AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER, BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL."

It would seem again two actions one reflected in the law and the other by following Christ.

Digging

 

[Mitspa]

nmwings, i believe you are misquoting the meaning in acts 15:21.

this whole dialogue was speaking of the gentiles but to the jews.

the point is that the law is read in the synagogues for their sake, not the gentiles.

Funny how Galatia was a gentile church, Paul being called to the gentiles! Now Paul makes the point over and over that there is NO DIFFERENCE between jew and gentile. The whole context of the Book of Galatians is that Jews were coming in "unawares" to bring the gentiles into bondage to the law.

Gal 3:24-28

Therefore the law was a tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For ALL ARE SONS OF GOD THROUGH FAITH.
27 For as many as were baptised into Christ have put on Christ.
28 THERE IS NIETHER JEW NOR GREEK!

now I must admit, that I can not understand how anyone can make such claims as some have made upon this thread and others, concerning the law and its purpose. It seems that if some do not what to submit to the truth of scripture, they just say "well thats not for us" or "God dont do that anymore"

I do not understand how people who claim to honor the Word of God , can ignore it ? And twist it to say that which it does not say or mean!

 

[Deborah13]

This passage states that the Messiah was made a curse. He purchased us out (redeemed) us from a curse. While most assume this curse is the Torah, how can we as Gentiles be purchased back from something we never had? Conversely, how can the Jews be purchased back from something they already had? The answer is: the curse is not Torah. The curse is what faces mankind as a whole: death and eternal damnation. This is what we have been redeemed from. That’s why we call it “salvation.”

Personally I don't know anyone who believes we are "redeemed" from the law. We are redeemed from the "curse of the law", spiritual death, to be without the Holy Spirit. No Spirit, no life.

The blessing this passage is referring to is the same “gospel” (good news) that was proclaimed to Abraham in Gen:12:2-3

“I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; Andyou shall be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." The blessing of the Messiah came from the loins of Abraham (“in you”) and will be for all peoples (”all families.”) The Good News of the RE-renewed covenant wasn’t NEW at all… it had been planned since the foundations of the earth!.

Yes, I clearly stated this point.

Do you not know that the blessings for obedience FAR OUTWEIGH the curses? See the wonderful things that will flow upon you when you are obedient in Deut 28:1-14.

Which jot or tiddle is too heavy to bear? I hope it isn’t the small aleph (“a”) in Vayikra (“Leviticus" 1:1) which teaches that “if you’re going to be called of the Lord your strength must be made small so His strength may be made large?” John the Baptist was fully aware of this tiddle and made this very testimony in John 3:30 “He must increase, but I must decrease.”

It's very clear to me what Peter is talking about that is too much to bear. No one can obey the law perfectly, not then, not now, only the Christ who fulfilled the law at the cross. The fulfillment of the law does not mean abolished, as in nonexistent. If I have a math equation, let's keep it simple, 2+2= , it is not completed or fulfilled. But 2+2= 4 is complete, fulfilled. Is the equation still there? Is it still true? Is it still meaningful? Yes. But it has been completed, there is nothing more to do to it, in this simple form, it is done. It no longer needs to be answered. Peter speaks of the yoke of bondage to the law of Moses, as he states in verse 5.
Jesus said that if one broke any one law they were guilty of ALL.

As for Acts 15 I suggest quoting from v 15-21. Once again we see that Paul is against teaching the Gentiles the Law of Moses, just to tell them to, as you say, remain pure. He says that if they want to learn the law of Moses they can "21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."
Other than my sentence that was poorly worded I don't see what your point is or your dispute.

Nor do I think it is the inverted nuns (“n’s”) surrounding Num 10:35-36 that carries a profound teaching of both the Messiah’s resurrection after the crucifixion:

So it was, whenever the ark set out, that Moses said: [ "Rise up, O Lord! Let Your enemies be scattered, And let those who hate You flee before You." ]

And the resurrection of the saints at the end of the ages:

And when it rested, he said: [ "Return, O Lord, To the many thousands of Israel."]

The jots and tiddles in the Torah (Law of God) teach profound lessons that not only were true in the Messiah’s day, but also is just as true and profound into the future resurrection of the saints! A theology that abolishes the Torah, unwittingly abolishes the future resurrection of you and me.

When I study the OT I am always looking for the types and shadows of Jesus. It's a fascinating study and yes full of truths that benefit us today. Knowledge, wisdom, God's grace and His love for His people.

Notice who stood up and complained about Gentiles keeping law: the Pharisees! The same Pharisees who the Messiah rebuked for not following Moses, but lived according to THEIR laws (precepts of men) and not the Torah. They weren’t concerned with new believers obeying Moses… they wanted them to adhere to the Pharisaic laws….. of which indeed no man could possibly bear. It was politics. More converts, more money, more control.

I don't think these were the same Pharisees you speak of . You see the Pharisees in this scripture were Jews but they were also Christians, just as Paul and Peter were. The scripture clearly states v5 " But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
This was the counsel meeting at Jerusalem to make decisions pertaining to the Gentile believers. Pharisees that were not believers would not have had a say or probably even been there.

What did Paul say was crucial for new believers to follow? From neck to groin they will abstain from the profane and unclean. (Acts 15:20) THEN, he reminds the council that new believers can hear further instructions in the synagogues every Sabbath. (Acts 15:21)

 

[jasoncran]

ok, if that is the case., hmm isnt that the same synagougues whose sandhedrin put christians to death? that is well odd. paul says listen to the anti-christs to get taught on the nature of the torah?you aslo forget that the pharisees were teaching in those same temples.

 

[jasoncran]

I am hesitant to respond to your question given our past history. I am hoping your spirit of argument and debate has been calmed to a point where we can communicate in a pleasant manner. I suppose only time will tell…

I am not sure what you are asking, so I will say this to clarify: Paul teaches and upholds the 613 commandments found in the Torah, and he opposes the law made up and enforced by the Pharisees.

so then if a christian or a jew in our land doesnt do the shabat we execute them? what of the idea where it says we are to see the kohen if we are sick from leprosy and to go to the jordan and dip seven days.

 

[Deborah13]

ok, if that is the case., hmm isnt that the same synagougues whose sandhedrin put christians to death? that is well odd. paul says listen to the anti-christs to get taught on the nature of the torah?you aslo forget that the pharisees were teaching in those same temples.

Hmmm, Yes, so share Jason. What is your interpretation of this scripture.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Thanks

 

[nmwings]

nmwings, i believe you are misquoting the meaning in acts 15:21.

this whole dialogue was speaking of the gentiles but to the jews.

the point is that the law is read in the synagogues for their sake, not the gentiles.

It is read for the sake of any and all who wish to be a part of God's promises. There shall be no difference between Jew and Gentile. One law for all.

 

[jasoncran]

Hmmm, Yes, so share Jason. What is your interpretation of this scripture.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

Thanks

the jews teach that moses is the central figure to the people of the book. whereas christians teach jesus is the central figure of the bible.that is what paul is saying. moses is yes important but he is a type of christ. a judge and a type of redeemer.

moses was taught then by the sandendrin as in today manner of jews. the jews have a central group of a type of sandhedrin. ie for orthodox its generally chabad. that is what paul means. the jews preach moses and we preach Jesus.in judaism the moshiac doenst change the torah but allows it to flourish.

 

[Deborah13]

It is read for the sake of any and all who wish to be a part of God's promises. There shall be no difference between Jew and Gentile. One law for all.

God's promises come to us through Abraham, by grace through faith.

Yes, one law for all who receive Jesus. He commanded two the laws of love.

 

[Deborah13]

the jews teach that moses is the central figure to the people of the book. whereas christians teach jesus is the central figure of the bible.that is what paul is saying. moses is yes important but he is a type of christ. a judge and a type of redeemer.

moses was taught then by the sandendrin as in today manner of jews. the jews have a central group of a type of sandhedrin. ie for orthodox its generally chabad. that is what paul means. the jews preach moses and we preach the moses.in judaism the moshiac doenst change the torah but allows it to flourish.

OK I THINK I got it. They shouldn't worry about the Gentiles learning the law because it was continuing to be taught in the synagogues for the Jews.
Thanks Jason, that clarifies it for me.

 

[jasoncran]

yes and no. the pharisees that were in that council were converts. the jews then could do the torah and god tolerated it but today i dont think it would be approved. why? because for a time law and grace were side by side and when jewry was removed from the picture in ad 70. that is as a means of pleasing god. remember in the talmud its mentioned that when the high priest entered the holy of holies the veil turned white from being red. that stopped in about ad 33. when was christ crucified? ad 33.