Explain Galatians 2:15-21

[Deborah13]

yes and no. the pharisees that were in that council were converts. the jews then could do the torah and god tolerated it but today i dont think it would be approved. why? because for a time law and grace were side by side and when jewry was removed from the picture in ad 70. that is as a means of pleasing god. remember in the talmud its mentioned that when the high priest entered the holy of holies the veil turned white from being red. that stopped in about ad 33. when was christ crucified? ad 33.

Yes, this much I understand and agree.

When the Temple was distroyed the Jews no longer had a place for the priests to perform the offering for the people. Correct? I know there must be more to it that I don't understand.

Anyway, if you wish to add to this I'm listening, if not that's OK too. Not expecting you to school me.

 

[for_his_glory]

So your trying to establish that part of the law is fulfilled in Christ and part of it is still in effect?

So When Jesus said not one jot or tittle would pass away until it was all fulfilled. Did he get it wrong? Or do you have it wrong? Is it just the 10 commandments? The ministry of death and condemnation written is stone 2 Cor 3

So do you keep the sabbath? you know thats one of the 10 commandments?

Personal insult removed.

No Paul made the point very clear! If you keep one part of the law, you must keep it all. And he makes direct reference to the 10 commandments over and over in his discussion of the law.

Personal insult removed.

Instead of making personal insults maybe you need to go back and re-read what I posted as I don't think you would understand this yet. I am talking about the moral laws which include the ten commandments as they are not a separate set of laws, but part of the whole 613 laws that anyone can bring up online and read them all. Not one jot or tittle will be removed from the moral laws until Christ returns. There were particular laws given only to the Jews as pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the moral laws that pertain to both Jew and Gentile. The only laws Jesus fulfilled in his death was that of the Temple and sacrifices as He being the final sacrifice and the temple now being that of us as to where the Holy Spirit dwells.

 

[nmwings]

Personally I don't know anyone who believes we are "redeemed" from the law….

Really? That is the view of most of the people not only on this forum but throughout Christianity. That we “have been freed from the bondage of the Law of God.†If I’m not mistaken, I think you’re saying that here….

It's very clear to me what Peter is talking about that is too much to bear. No one can obey the law perfectly, not then, not now, only the Christ who fulfilled the law at the cross.

Yet no one is even willing to TRY!!!

Does God lie?
Num 23:19 "God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent. Has He said, and will He not do? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?â€

Is the Law of God impossible to do?
Deut 30:11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.â€

WE NOW HAVE A VERY SERIOUS CONTRADICTION. Man says its “impossible.†God says it isn’t. Who will you believe…. A mere man…. or the Lord, Himself? I will believe the Lord.

Thus, the “yoke of bondage†can ONLY refer to the law of men…. The law of the Pharisees, who did not obey Moses then, nor do they obey it today.

 

[jasoncran]

then neither do christians

for moses commanded thou shall not suffer a witch to live. plenty of psychics and witchrafts around then and now.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes, this much I understand and agree.

When the Temple was distroyed the Jews no longer had a place for the priests to perform the offering for the people. Correct? I know there must be more to it that I don't understand.

Anyway, if you wish to add to this I'm listening, if not that's OK too. Not expecting you to school me.

well yes and no. it did end that so to speak. they see ad 70 as a judgement because they felt they went to far in some ways with allowing a corrupt priest but they could simply have built a tabernacle per moses. but the tanach does mention that the city of jerusalem will always be in God's heart. so that has to sting a lot.

thus they teach if we do the mizvot perhaps God will be merciful and send the moshiac to restore the torah and the temple.

 

[nmwings]

so then if a christian or a jew in our land doesnt do the shabat we execute them? what of the idea where it says we are to see the kohen if we are sick from leprosy and to go to the jordan and dip seven days.

If the Sabbath-breaker resides within the boundaries of the Promised Land, it is our duty to “remove the evil from our midst.” As for the leper, that instruction can only be accomplished with an Altar and a priest. Since we do not have an Altar at the moment, we cannot perform this instruction.

 

[Mitspa]

Instead of making personal insults maybe you need to go back and re-read what I posted as I don't think you would understand this yet. I am talking about the moral laws which include the ten commandments as they are not a separate set of laws, but part of the whole 613 laws that anyone can bring up online and read them all. Not one jot or tittle will be removed from the moral laws until Christ returns. There were particular laws given only to the Jews as pertaining to the rituals of the Temple, sacrifices, festivals, Torah, Kohanim and Levites, the King and the Nazarite. Then there are the moral laws that pertain to both Jew and Gentile. The only laws Jesus fulfilled in his death was that of the Temple and sacrifices as He being the final sacrifice and the temple now being that of us as to where the Holy Spirit dwells.

So you are saying the "moral law" do you mean the 10 commandments? So then you are saying everything in the law was satisfied by Christ, but the 10 commandments? Is that your position? Every jot and tittle but the ministry of death and condemnation 2 Cor 3? Now please take a sure stand on your position! I have made my position clear! WE WHO ARE BELIEVERS ARE UNDER NO PART OF THE OLD COVENANT AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS CANNOT MAKE A CHARGE OF SIN AGAINST THOSE THAT ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN CHRIST. EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!

 

[jasoncran]

really? so you believe that paul and the church whom had the alter were wrong when this happened?
acts 19

And this was known to all the Jews and Greeks also dwelling at Ephesus; and fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified.
18 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds.

19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver

there's no room for repentance in the torah for witchcraft. one had to seek YHWH, or die. you err in your understanding of the torah.what this is is what the YHWH did do for king david whom had no chance when he was found in the sin of adultery and like wise with the woman caught in adultery. if you noticed Jesus didnt say she was innocent.

and in the days when the acts of the apostles there was most certainly an alter.you answered me like a jew would and not as a gentile. that is what jews say not christians.

 

[nmwings]

God's promises come to us through Abraham, by grace through faith. Yes, one law for all who receive Jesus. He commanded two the laws of love.

Which are the EXACT same 2 pivotal commandments given at Mt.Sinai:

Deut 6:5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.â€

Lev 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.â€


And upon these 2 hang the rest of the 613 commandments. Which means, if you cannot do these 2, you cannot do any of the others.

 

[Deborah13]

Which are the EXACT same 2 pivotal commandments given at Mt.Sinai:

Deut 6:5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.â€

Lev 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.â€


And upon these 2 hang the rest of the 613 commandments. Which means, if you cannot do these 2, you cannot do any of the others.

Exactly, and can I do these two at all times, me as in my fleshly soul, NO. If I could I would not be entitled to call on Jesus as my Saviour and Lord. Thus I am not under bondage to the law of Moses but I live by the law of liberty in Christ.

It's really funny how some people can separate the blessings and the cursings of the Law of Moses. They are a package deal in my way of thinking. Obey be blessed, disobey be cursed.
Many word faith preachers teach tithing from Malachi. Tithe and be blessed 10 fold but they don't teach the curse if you don't. under the Law of Moses they go hand in hand.
Paul teaches giving to the ones in need and to support the ministry, the ox must be fed while he works. Notice the minister is represented by the ox (the Christ). But our giving is to be with a joyful heart, with the correct attitude not because a law says we must. Blessings come when giving is done from the heart. So it is with the rest of God's blessings, He looks at our hearts, imperfect as we are, and blesses us. It's first about His love for us, then our love for Him. "we love Him because He love us first". ACTUALLY, when He looks at our hearts He's looking to see the Savior there, it's all about Jesus and glorifying Him we reap the benefits through grace.

 

[digging]

Have any of you wondered if the paying of the 10th could also be pointing to the future Temple city mentioned in Revelation? The firstfruits of Christ making up the first inhabitants as modeled in Nehemiah, so they would be the tith?

Nehemiah 11:1 Now the leaders of the people lived in Jerusalem, but the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to live in Jerusalem, the holy city, while nine-tenths remained in the other cities.

Digging

 

[Deborah13]

Have any of you wondered if the paying of the 10th could also be pointing to the future Temple city mentioned in Revelation? The firstfruits of Christ making up the first inhabitants as modeled in Nehemiah, so they would be the tith?

Nehemiah 11:1 Now the leaders of the people lived in Jerusalem, but the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to live in Jerusalem, the holy city, while nine-tenths remained in the other cities.

Digging

No but an interesting question worth some study. We know if the one tenth is made holy the rest is made holy also.

 

[Deborah13]

Which are the EXACT same 2 pivotal commandments given at Mt.Sinai:

Deut 6:5 “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”

Lev 19:18 “You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD.”


And upon these 2 hang the rest of the 613 commandments. Which means, if you cannot do these 2, you cannot do any of the others.

God has not changed His nature. He was always a God of love and a just God. Because He is just in administering the law He chose to give us the Savior so that we could be justified by and through Him seeing we couldn't be justified by and through the law.

 

[Deborah13]

If the Sabbath-breaker resides within the boundaries of the Promised Land, it is our duty to “remove the evil from our midst.” As for the leper, that instruction can only be accomplished with an Altar and a priest. Since we do not have an Altar at the moment, we cannot perform this instruction.

NTestament

Colossians 2:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

 

[nmwings]

Thus I am not under bondage to the law of Moses but I live by the law of liberty in Christ.

So you consider the law of God to be bondage? I have heard this theology so many, many times. While I absolutely despise Hitler and all that he did, he was wise in one regard when he said, "No matter how far-fetched it is, if you tell a lie loud enough, long enough and often enough, the people will believe it." Now think for a moment with all theology set aside: was Israel a free nation that was brought INTO bondage under the Law of God? No, just the opposite: Israel was brought OUT of bondage (redeemed from Egypt) and were made into a FREE nation with a righteous “constitution.â€

On a side note, we the people of the United States of America are considered to have the most liberty (freedom) in the world, YET we have far more laws on the books than any other country on the globe! Thus, without law, there can be no freedom!(Not to mention the fact that our founding fathers based the constitution of the U.S. on TORAH principles!)

And since every subject the Messiah (and Apostles) teach comes right out of the Torah (including the Altar), what do you think the difference is between these "2" laws? I can tell you right now, there is no difference.... aside from the promise that the whole law will be written on our hearts instead of on stone.

 

[Mitspa]

So you are saying the "moral law" do you mean the 10 commandments? So then you are saying everything in the law was satisfied by Christ, but the 10 commandments? Is that your position? Every jot and tittle but the ministry of death and condemnation 2 Cor 3? Now please take a sure stand on your position! I have made my position clear! WE WHO ARE BELIEVERS ARE UNDER NO PART OF THE OLD COVENANT AND THE TEN COMMANDMENTS CANNOT MAKE A CHARGE OF SIN AGAINST THOSE THAT ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH IN CHRIST. EVERY JOT AND TITTLE!

Paul warned against false teachers, desiring to be teachers of the law, not knowing what they are teaching, nor what they are trying to affirm.

I can never get one to take a real stand on what they are trying to teach? If Jesus said Ever Jot and tittle? then its ever jot and tittle!

now again I ask? what part of the law is fulfilled by Christ and what part is yet left undone? Please be specific, its very important that people understand what part of the law Jesus did not fulfill?

Take a stand and defend your doctrine!

"thou shall not bear false witness" That means we tell the truth and all the truth all the time!

 

[Deborah13]

Galatians 5:1
King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Galatians 1:6-10
King James Version (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you,and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Galatians 5:2-6
King James Version (KJV)
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised,Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 2:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, thatthey might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 6:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Galatians 5:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only usenot liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
We see in 1:6-10 and in 2:4-5, that there were those tryingto bring the gospel believers back under the yoke of bondage. Paul stresses thathe cannot allow this. They are to remember the gospel of grace and not allow it to be corrupted.

In 5:13 he tells them not to use the liberty that they have for an occasion to sin, but to love and serve.
It appears that these false brothern (Judaizers) were trying to discredit Paul 6:17 as well as challenge his understanding of the gospel andalso to claim that his doctrine would lead to people thinking they could just go on living lives full of sin.

It's interesting to note that the very same accusations are brought against christian grace teachers today.
Galatians 3:24-25
King James Version (KJV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

For all saved born again, if you will, christians the law has accomplished it's purpose for us. The christian Jews are no longer under the law and the Gentiles never were, unless they put themselves there by their own foolishness and even then it just flat does not apply.

Where does it say that the law brings a man to repentence? I don't think you can find it. The law is simply to prove to man that he has disobeyed God and so is a sinner. But it is the "love of God that brings a man to repentence."

Natural man loves religion and being religious. He may be religious about God or he can be just as religious about Sunday football or money. Man likes something he can do and take credit for what he does. Grace leaves no room for this. If we are considered righteous by God it is because of Christ in us. If we do righteous works that God considers to be righteous it is only because of Christ in us. His faith, His righteousness, we are left with nothing to boast about. So what good is the law to us. For in the law is religion and pride and boasting. Or it can be the one that is always in self-pity because the try so hard to be good. The man of law can look in the mirror and see a self-righteous (self-centered) Pharisee starring back.

The law itself is holy given by God for a certain purpose.

 

[Mitspa]

Galatians 5:1
King James Version (KJV)

5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
Galatians 1:6-10
King James Version (KJV)
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you,and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

Galatians 5:2-6
King James Version (KJV)
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised,Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Galatians 2:4-5
King James Version (KJV)

4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, thatthey might bring us into bondage:
5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Galatians 6:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.
Galatians 5:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only usenot liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
We see in 1:6-10 and in 2:4-5, that there were those tryingto bring the gospel believers back under the yoke of bondage. Paul stresses thathe cannot allow this. They are to remember the gospel of grace and not allow it to be corrupted.

In 5:13 he tells them not to use the liberty that they have for an occasion to sin, but to love and serve.
It appears that these false brothern (Judaizers) were trying to discredit Paul 6:17 as well as challenge his understanding of the gospel andalso to claim that his doctrine would lead to people thinking they could just go on living lives full of sin.

It's interesting to note that the very same accusations are brought against christian grace teachers today.
Galatians 3:24-25
King James Version (KJV)

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

For all saved born again, if you will, christians the law has accomplished it's purpose for us. The christian Jews are no longer under the law and the Gentiles never were, unless they put themselves there by their own foolishness and even then it just flat does not apply.

Where does it say that the law brings a man to repentence? I don't think you can find it. The law is simply to prove to man that he has disobeyed God and so is a sinner. But it is the "love of God that brings a man to repentence."

Natural man loves religion and being religious. He may be religious about God or he can be just as religious about Sunday football or money. Man likes something he can do and take credit for what he does. Grace leaves no room for this. If we are considered righteous by God it is because of Christ in us. If we do righteous works that God considers to be righteous it is only because of Christ in us. His faith, His righteousness, we are left with nothing to boast about. So what good is the law to us. For in the law is religion and pride and boasting. Or it can be the one that is always in self-pity because the try so hard to be good. The man of law can look in the mirror and see a self-righteous (self-centered) Pharisee starring back.

The law itself is holy given by God for a certain purpose.

Amen! The strength of sin is the law! For sin is in the flesh and all the law can do is condemn the flesh. A condemned sinner is still a sinner!

"For sin will not have dominion over you because you are not under law but under grace" The only power over sin is the grace of Christ! If any man says he has power over sin? God gave it to him by grace! So those who are so worried about OTHER PEOPLES SIN? Preach the grace of God, not the law of Moses!

Thanks Deb13, you are a blessing!

 

[nmwings]

NTestament

Colossians 2:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Col 2:16-17 is talking about vegetarianism (those who are offended by the idea of eating meat), those who are offended by the consumption of wine and/or strong drink (like the Baptists today) and the conflicting calanders used by different Pharasiac Rabbis not only then, but even today in Judaism.

 

[Mitspa]

Col 2:16-17 is talking about vegetarianism (those who are offended by the idea of eating meat), those who are offended by the consumption of wine and/or strong drink (like the Baptists today) and the conflicting calanders used by different Pharasiac Rabbis not only then, but even today in Judaism.

So the sabbath is a veggie? No the sabbath was one of the 10 commandments! Its all past away "in Christ" every jot and tittle!