Jethro Bodine
Member
But if you reject Christ and the gospel in a different way other than going back to the law you can repent and come back?
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Faith alone questions
- Thread starter donadams
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
Calvinists don't believe in OSAS????
They most certainly do believe that Once you are Saved you are Always Saved.
In fact, that is where the teaching comes from.
That is a relatively NEW version of OSAS.
Calvinists owned the OSAS tag long before this abhorrent Hypergrace/Freegrace doctrine became popular in the church in the last 30 years.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
It's the same.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
And that's why OSAS means something different than Perseverance of the Saints.
Calvinists do Not believe in OSAS.
Jethro Bodine
Member
They actually do, but that's okay.
Long before this Freegrace 'thing' got popular in the church Calvin's Perseverance of the Saints was understood as OSAS, for short. Everybody understood it was referring to the 'P' in TULIP. And in no way did it ever mean you can live whatever way you want and you remain saved. That belief is the Freegrace version of OSAS, and that's why it became popular, seemingly, overnight in the Protestant church.
Jethro Bodine
Member
There's nothing 'initial' about justification (as Paul is using the word 'justified'). Hebrews 10:14 says it is a perfecting that is completed, the results of which continue up to the present, and does not have to be repeated. How is that the same as Catholic teaching?
Romans 2:13
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
You can’t twist this one into justified unto doing good works
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
You can’t twist this one into justified unto doing good works
Jethro Bodine
Member
Obviously, Paul can't be saying a person is made righteous by the law. That would instantly negate the whole argument he's making that a man is NOT made righteous by the law (Romans 3:28), so we know that's not what he's saying.
There's two possible arguments that he's making:
1) You have to actually keep the law to be justified by the law, and no one keeps the law.
or
2) Keeping the law is indeed how a person is shown to have the righteousness of faith. Which is James' justification argument.
I'm still kind of undecided which one he's actually saying. Maybe both. But the context supports argument #1. But one thing is for sure he is no way shape or form suggesting that a person is justified (made righteous) by works. His argument is, it's impossible to be declared righteous that way. You would have to be perfect to be declared perfect, which no one is. And that is the deception of the works justification gospel - you can't be the perfection that solicits God's declaration of perfection. That declaration of perfection can ONLY come as a free gift of his grace, through faith, and not by works. A perfection that results from having your unrighteousness forgiven, not a perfection that comes from the successful and proper performance of all various of rituals and deeds. Trying to be righteous by being righteous is a fool's errand. Righteousness can only be secured as a free gift of God's grace received by faith.
Since the sixteenth century great differences have existed between Protestants and Catholics regarding the true nature of justification. https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/justification
In the process of justification we must distinguish two periods: first, the preparatory acts or dispositions (faith, fear, hope, etc.); then the last, decisive moment of the transformation of the sinner from the state of sin to that of justification or sanctifying grace, which may be called the active justification (actus justificationis); with this the real process comes to an end, and the state of habitual holiness and sonship of God begins. Touching both of these periods there has existed, and still exists, in part, a great conflict of opinion between Catholicism and Protestantism. This conflict may be reduced to four differences of teaching. By a justifying faith the Church understands qualitatively the theoretical faith in the truths of Revelation, and demands over and above this faith other acts of preparation for justification. Protestantism, on the other hand, reduces the process of justification to merely a fiduciary faith; and maintains that this faith, exclusive even of good works, is all-sufficient for justification, laying great stress upon the scriptural statement sola fides justificat. The Church teaches that justification consists of an actual obliteration of sin and an interior sanctification. Protestantism, on the other hand, makes of the forgiveness of sin merely a concealment of it, so to speak; and of the sanctification a forensic declaration of justification, or an external imputation of the justice of Christ. In the presentation of the process of justification, we willeverywhere note this fourfold confessional conflict.
www.catholic.com
In the process of justification we must distinguish two periods: first, the preparatory acts or dispositions (faith, fear, hope, etc.); then the last, decisive moment of the transformation of the sinner from the state of sin to that of justification or sanctifying grace, which may be called the active justification (actus justificationis); with this the real process comes to an end, and the state of habitual holiness and sonship of God begins. Touching both of these periods there has existed, and still exists, in part, a great conflict of opinion between Catholicism and Protestantism. This conflict may be reduced to four differences of teaching. By a justifying faith the Church understands qualitatively the theoretical faith in the truths of Revelation, and demands over and above this faith other acts of preparation for justification. Protestantism, on the other hand, reduces the process of justification to merely a fiduciary faith; and maintains that this faith, exclusive even of good works, is all-sufficient for justification, laying great stress upon the scriptural statement sola fides justificat. The Church teaches that justification consists of an actual obliteration of sin and an interior sanctification. Protestantism, on the other hand, makes of the forgiveness of sin merely a concealment of it, so to speak; and of the sanctification a forensic declaration of justification, or an external imputation of the justice of Christ. In the presentation of the process of justification, we willeverywhere note this fourfold confessional conflict.
Grace
Grace, in general, is a supernatural gift of God to intellectual creatures (men, angels) for their eternal salvation. Read more here.
The true question is...how much of the Law applies to us in the NT ?
I say...two commandments.
Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
And love your neighbor as you love yourself.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
I conseed that you may be right.
I'm referring to OSAS as it is understood RIGHT NOW, I don't know how it was understood in the past.
I had started a thread on this some years ago.
Don't know if I can find it...
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Protestant:
JUSTIFICATION
SANCTIFICATION
Catholic:
INITIAL JUSTIFICATION
ONGOING JUSTIFICATION
We're going to have to drop this.
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Means nothing! Ok
Just an observation: “if” your unscripted Wild rocking worship service is only an emotional experience, then perhaps your faith also pure emotion, and not based on an intellectual ascent to a truth revealed by God and taught by holy mother church.
Thanks
No just supplemented the power of the HS and God’s grace that we need to be faithful, cos we have a fallen “defective” nature!
To sum it up no Jesus necessary?
Is that not the works gospel “pray” to obtain mercy?
How about being merciful?
Thanks
The Bible says people are blessed Matt 5
Mary is blessed Lk 1:28
Do you know why?
All Generations of true Christians call her blessed. Lk 1:48
Also Lk 1:45 faithful
To a true the sweet name of our mother who gave birth “born again” to us is sweet, but to demons and false Christians is bitter. Mary is the air we breathe, as breathing is a sign of life so the frequent pronouncing the name of Mary is a sign of life of grace in Christ!
Mother of “fair love”
A person without a mother is an orphan, Jesus said I will not leave you orphan, behold Thy mother and the true disciples take her into their house. Jn 19:26-28
Scripture has it cursed is the man that angers his mother, rather honor Thy mother is a commandment!
Thanks
Can you be saved without baptism if it’s easily possible?
Passover!
Jethro Bodine
Member
I don't know why you're saying all this. So, back to the point, I'm not Reformist. So any comments about people not having free will mean nothing to me. It's not a source of contention as you, apparently, expected it to be.
As far as what you did post above, if cold dead, mechanical liturgy is your thing, go for it. I despise that un-Biblical way of meeting. It's useless and ineffective to me, but you are certainly entitled to submit yourself to it. Just let those of us who want to meet together according to how Paul says we are to meet together do that.
Jethro Bodine
Member
The Passover observance is indeed commanded by God. What I resist is how churches turn it into a cold dead meaningless mechanical ritual that they think pleases God. No thank you. You can have it.