Faith alone questions

[donadams]

All believers who obey God are the mother, brother and sister of Jesus:

48But Jesus replied, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” 49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” Matthew 12:48-50

27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!”

28But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” Luke 11:27-28

Nobody's taking away Mary's blessing. What we despise is the undue praise and worship and idolatrous mythology you've attached to Mary. As we can see every believer who obeys God's word and does his will shares in the blessing of Mary.

You are if you cant answer the question

Please go to the catholic forum and read my thread on misunderstandings

I’ll add your response to the list

Thanks

 

[donadams]

I showed you that James can't be using the same definition and aspect of justification as Paul is, but an additional one. Saying he is using the same definition puts him in direct contradiction to Paul's teaching about justification. That's why the Catholic church had to conveniently change "righteousness apart from works" (Romans 4:6) to "righteousness apart from works alone". They had to do that to defend and preserve the works justification theology they teach, which you openly acknowledge they teach.

Righteous works justify you in that they show you to have the righteousness of God that comes to a person by faith (James 2:18)

Faith justifies you in that faith all by itself apart from the benefit and merit of works is how you are made righteous with the righteousness of God (Philippians 3:9).

Justification by faith is the great stumbling block to natural man. Catholic theology lacks the revelation from God that a man becomes righteous solely on the basis of his faith, not by faithfully doing righteous things. Abraham being our example of that and how we, also, receive the righteousness of God solely on the basis of faith in the promise of God about a Son (Romans 4:22-24).

Lk 5:20 20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Does not say the man had faith?
Does not even say he asked to be forgiven?
He did not call on the name of Jesus?

How is he forgiven, justified?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lk 5:20 20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.

Does not say the man had faith?
Does not even say he asked to be forgiven?
He did not call on the name of Jesus?

How is he forgiven, justified?

He believed in his heart (Romans 10:10).

Works are not necessary to be justified. Faith justifies all by itself, apart from works. Works only show us that he has the faith by which a person justified (James 2:18).

 

[donadams]

If you really believe this, why are you trying achieve the justification that one receives the moment they place their faith in the one time for all time sacrifice of Christ?

10And by that will, we have been sanctified through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

14 ...by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:10,14

Let it sink in: He has made us perfect for all time. It's a done deal. You don't have to work to get what has already been done for you and which continues up to the present and which does not have to be repeated. That is literally what 'has made perfect' means in the passage. The verb 'made perfect' is in the Perfect tense. That means the author is saying 'made perfect' is a completed action with results continuing up to the present and which do not have to be repeated. Let that profound truth sink in. Stop faithfully working to receive a righteousness that the believer already has through their faith in Christ.

Do you can’t sun offend God?
You don’t need more grace?

Increase grace by good works

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You are if you cant answer the question

I can't take away a blessing that the Catholic church says she has but which she doesn't actually have.

Jesus said blessed rather are those who hear and do the will of God, and that the people who do that are his mother, brother, and sister. Luke 21:27-28, Matthew 12:47-50.

The blessing is not exclusive to Mary.

 

[donadams]

That is correct. And the re-sacrifice of Christ is expressly forbidden. Crucifying the Son of God all over again puts him to open shame. It happened one time for all time, and what we are told to do is remember it, not redo it repeatedly.

Where did he say remember it?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Increase grace by good works

Yes, but not the grace of justification.

That only comes by having faith, not by doing works.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where did he say remember it?

Luke 22:19

"do this in rememberance of me"

 

[donadams]

No. For clarity 'faith alone' is James' argument, not Paul's.
It's righteousness apart from works - Romans 4:6.

A man is justified by believing in his heart apart from his works:

10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. Romans 10:10

Catholic theology erroneously claims you faithfully work and you are justified.

What about
Matthew 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Not true about catholic teaching
We also say it is by grace

 

[donadams]

The work of getting water baptized is not what makes you righteous. You do not become righteous by doing righteous things. That is the works justification gospel condemned in scripture. You become righteous by believing in your heart, apart from your works.

This truth is the great stumbling block to natural man. It doesn't make sense to the natural man. It goes against all natural expectation of how a person becomes righteous. It's a spiritual truth that only spiritually enlightened people can see and accept.

Why is baptism mentioned here and so many times?

 

[Hopeful 2]

Why is baptism mentioned here and so many times?

Because water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins is where we "call upon the name of the Lord", as per Rom 10:8-13.

 

[donadams]

I can't take away a blessing that the Catholic church says she has but which she doesn't actually have.

Jesus said blessed rather are those who hear and do the will of God, and that the people who do that are his mother, brother, and sister. Luke 21:27-28, Matthew 12:47-50.

The blessing is not exclusive to Mary.

Luke 1:28

King James Version

​

28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Before the mother part!

 

[donadams]

No. For clarity 'faith alone' is James' argument, not Paul's.
It's righteousness apart from works - Romans 4:6.

A man is justified by believing in his heart apart from his works:

10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved. Romans 10:10

Catholic theology erroneously claims you faithfully work and you are justified.

Trent
In what Manner it must be understood that the Impious is Justified by Faith, and freely?

But whereas the Apostle saith, that man is justified by faith, and freely,

those words are to be understood in that sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed; to wit, that we be therefore said to be justified by faith, because faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons; but we are therefore said to be justified freely, because none of those things which precede justification, whether faith or works, merit the grace itself of justification. For, if it be a grace, then is it no more by works, otherwise, as the same Apostle saith, grace is no more grace.

More trent

CANON I.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law were not all instituted by Jesus Christ, our Lord; or, that they are more, or less, than seven, to wit, Baptism, Confirmation, the Eucharist, Penance, Extreme Unction, Order, and Matrimony; or even that any one of these seven is not truly and properly a sacrament; let him be anathema.

CANON II.-If any one saith, that these said sacraments of the New Law do not differ from the sacramnets of the Old Law, save that the ceremonies are different, and different the outward rites; let him be anathema.

CANON III.-If any one saith, that these seven sacraments are in such wise equal to each other, as that one is not in any way more worthy than another; let him be anathema.

CANON IV.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law are not necessary unto salvation, but superfluous; and that, without them, or without the desire thereof, men obtain of God, through faith alone, the grace of justification;-though all (the sacraments) are not indeed necessary for every individual; let him be anathema.

CANON V.-If any one saith, that these sacraments were instituted for the sake of nourishing faith alone; let him be anathema.

CANON VI.-If any one saith, that the sacraments of the New Law do not contain the grace which they signify; or, that they do not confer that grace on those who do not place an obstacle thereunto; as though they were merely outward signs of grace or justice received through faith, and certain marks of the Christian profession, whereby believers are distinguished amongst men from unbelievers; let him be anathema.

CANON VII.-If any one saith, that grace, as far as God's part is concerned, is not given through the said sacraments, always, and to all men, even though they receive them rightly, but (only) sometimes, and to some persons; let him be anathema.

CANON VIII.-If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema.

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that, in the three sacrments, Baptism, to wit, Confirmation, and Order, there is not imprinted in the soul a character, that is, a certain spiritual and indelible Sign, on account of which they cannot be repeated; let him be anathema.

CANON X.-If any one saith, that all Christians have power to administer the word, and all the sacraments; let him be anathema.

CANON XI.-If any one saith, that, in ministers, when they effect, and confer the sacraments, there is not required the intention at least of doing what the Church does; let him be anathema.

CANON XII.-If any one saith, that a minister, being in mortal sin,-if so be that he observe all the essentials which belong to the effecting, or conferring of, the sacrament,-neither effects, nor confers the sacrament; let him be anathema.

CANON XIII.-If any one saith, that the received and approved rites of the Catholic Church, wont to be used in the solemn administration of the sacraments, may be contemned, or without sin be omitted at pleasure by the ministers, or be changed, by every pastor of the churches, into other new ones; let him be anathema.

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)

 

[donadams]

You're still not getting it.
You can list every single commanded work of obedience in the Bible. NONE of them MAKE you righteous.

You do not become righteous by being righteous.
You become righteous with a righteousness that is outside of you, imputed to you when you believe in your heart God's promise about a Son. It is from that righteousness that you then perform the works of righteousness commanded by God.

Faith makes you righteous with the righteousness of God, apart from and without aid of your works (Romans 4:6, Philippians 3:9).

Works show that you have that righteousness, imputed to a person through faith (James 2:18). Works do not solicit the righteousness of God. That's is the works justification gospel condemned in scripture.

No just deeds alone or deeds of the law

 

[donadams]

No matter how great and glorious and important a work may be, righteous work DOES NOT MAKE YOU RIGHTEOUS.
Works vary in significance, but NONE OF THEM MAKE YOU RIGHTEOUS. They can only SHOW you to be righteous with the righteousness that comes from God, not of yourself.

In 1 Corinthians 13:1-13, Paul is contrasting the service of the ministerial gifts to that of obedience to the 2nd greatest commandment - 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Service to a ministerial gift does not constitute the obedience to God's will that signifies that you are a justified child of God that will enter into the kingdom at the end of the age. Obedience to God's commands, specifically 'love your neighbor as yourself' does. Paul is simply echoing what Jesus taught in Matthew 7:20-23. 1 Corinthians 13 is not a chapter explaining what work makes a person righteous.

No pal you said your made righteous by “faith” here Paul says quote “even if you have all faith and no charity it AVAILS NOTHING “!!!

 

[donadams]

It is the only possible way to be righteous.

The other way is to keep all of God's standards of righteousness perfectly. Which is impossible to do.

But someone may argue, "but that's where the forgiveness of God comes in. To fill the gap." No, the simple fact that you had a failure that required the forgiveness of God, even just one, shows that you are not perfectly righteous in and of yourself. That's why we need perfect righteousness to be given to us as a free gift. It's the ONLY way to be declared righteous by God. You can't work the righteousness that God requires. A declaration of righteousness can only come to you as a free gift of God's favor by having faith in his Son who God says will secure the blessing on your behalf. Just as that was true for Abraham, our example of how a person is imputed the righteousness of God apart from his effort to be righteous.

Charity and works are also required ?

 

[donadams]

He believed in his heart (Romans 10:10).

Works are not necessary to be justified. Faith justifies all by itself, apart from works. Works only show us that he has the faith by which a person justified (James 2:18).

Don’t say that anywhere

 

[donadams]

I can't take away a blessing that the Catholic church says she has but which she doesn't actually have.

Jesus said blessed rather are those who hear and do the will of God, and that the people who do that are his mother, brother, and sister. Luke 21:27-28, Matthew 12:47-50.

The blessing is not exclusive to Mary.

Lk 1:28 is
You don’t know the reason?
You don’t know the commandments Matt 28:19 and acts1:8
Or the mysteries Matt 13:11
Or a list of the Ten Commandments

 

[donadams]

Yes, but not the grace of justification.

That only comes by having faith, not by doing works.

“Faith alone” right?

Paul rejects “faith alone”! 1 cor 13:2

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Don’t sound like “faith alone”!

“Faith alone” right?

Paul rejects “faith alone”! 1 cor 13:2

'Faith alone' is James' argument, not Paul's.
James says the one who claims to have faith must have the works to validate that claim - James 2:18.
Not being able to do so shows they do not have a faith that can save them ("can such faith save him?" - James 2:14).

Paul's argument is "righteousness apart from works."
He says a person is made righteous on the basis of faith in God, not on the basis of righteous behavior (Philippians 3:9).

Two different arguments.