Faith alone?

[Wrg1405]

Yes, as there is no other reason for water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)

Can you post a verse where Paul taught it?
Baptism for the remission of sins that is.

 

[Hopeful]

Can you post a verse where Paul taught it?
Baptism for the remission of sins that is.

I don't think he ever used those precise words, but how about Titus 3:5..."Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
And 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
And Eph 5:26..."That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"

 

[Wrg1405]

I don't think he ever used those precise words, but how about Titus 3:5..."Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"
And 1 Cor 6:11..."And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."
And Eph 5:26..."That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,"

So Paul did not teach that as you said that?

Do you believe you have to be baptised to be saved?

 

[Hopeful]

So Paul did not teach that as you said that?

Do you believe you have to be baptised to be saved?

Paul did not use the words "baptism for the remission of sins" in the bible.
He didn't need to as Peter already did.

Yes, we must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins to be saved.
It is one of a believer's first manifestations of the OP's "faith".

No dirty souled folks have their names in the book of life.

 

[Wrg1405]

Paul did not use the words "baptism for the remission of sins" in the bible.
He didn't need to as Peter already did.

Yes, we must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins to be saved.
No dirty souled folks have their names in the book of life.

Glad I don't go to your church.
Don't bother responding.

 

[Hopeful]

Glad I don't go to your church.
Don't bother responding.

It is written..."Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

It is written..."Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

How many people did Jesus baptize?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

How many people have you baptized?

 

[Hopeful]

How many people did Jesus baptize?

None that I am aware of during His time on earth.
How many people did He give lunch money to?

 

[Hopeful]

How many people have you baptized?

Three.
To the praise and glory of God.
You?

 

[Wrg1405]

None that I am aware of during His time on earth.
How many people did He give lunch money to?

Irrelevant if of course you believe if we don't give our lunch money to people then we are not saved as well.

 

[Hopeful]

Irrelevant if of course you believe if we don't give our lunch money to people then we are not saved as well.

Just pointing out that just because Jesus did or didn't do something, it may have no bearing on us.

 

[Fastfredy0]

Our whole Christian life is a work for salvation.

You believe God owes you salvation because you have meet His requirements. Congrats. Our our works are filthy rags and that apparently satisfies God to the point He saves us.
I believe that Christ met all the requirements/works (Christ alone) and I am saved by Faith alone (no works)
That's where we are. Fine with me.

It is written..."For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
We are to hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end...for salvation !

I still don't see this verse referring to WORKS. It says "if only we hold firm our newborn confidence" which I don't see as a work... but I don't want to go on a this tangent further. Preserving to the end is about Faith not works ... but I neither the words 'works' or 'faith' is stated in the verse so it seems a weak proof text of your proposal.

I am desperate for your soul.

Why. Just because I don't think one is saved by works does not mean I have no works. You say I am saved by works, I have works, so why are you desperate for my soul? Maybe you can give me the list of WORKS that will save me so I can check to see if I am saved via your criteria. *smile*

You don't need a URL, as I just told you.

Ah, thought you probably wouldn't come up with something.
2 Peter 1:20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture comes from one’s own interpretation. [unless it is Hopefuls, then a private interpretation is sufficient evidence]
To bad. Never heard of the interpretation. Might have been interesting to read.

 

[Hopeful]

You believe God owes you salvation because you have meet His requirements. Congrats. Our our works are filthy rags and that apparently satisfies God to the point He saves us.
I believe that Christ met all the requirements/works (Christ alone) and I am saved by Faith alone (no works)
That's where we are. Fine with me.

Nope, but I owe Him my life to Him for His amazing graciousness.

I still don't see this verse referring to WORKS. It says "if only we hold firm our newborn confidence" which I don't see as a work... but I don't want to go on a this tangent further. Preserving to the end is about Faith not works ... but I neither the words 'works' or 'faith' is stated in the verse so it seems a weak proof text of your proposal.

Holding firm is an action.
Preserving till the end is an action.
Actions are works, but thankfully not works of the Mosaic Law that Paul wrote against.
Fastfredy :
Why. Just because I don't think one is saved by works does not mean I have no works. You say I am saved by works, I have works, so why are you desperate for my soul? Maybe you can give me the list of WORKS that will save me so I can check to see if I am saved via your criteria.
How about the two listed previously in this post?

The reason I am afraid for your soul, is that advocates of your Faith Only doctrine use it to throw out repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins as essential parts of conversion.
That leaves people to walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
That is disastrous.

 

[Fastfredy0]

How do you answer this verse?

Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jas 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jas 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

This string is about FAITH ALONE. This means we are saved by FAITH ALONE and not by WORKS. FAITH will cause one to have works always, but those works are filthy rags that are a sign of faith, but the WORKS themselves are not salvific ...granted, works are a sign of salvation.
All your verses say that one does not have faith is one does not have works. The verse DO NOT SAY that either FAITH or WORKS bring about salvation. One has to look elsewhere in scripture to determine what brings about salvation. We both agree one ingredient is FAITH. You think another ingredient is WORKS. I don't think WORKS bring about salvation and there are verses the explicitly say so.

Same explanation by J. MacArthur
He was not dealing with the means of salvation at all, but rather with its outcome, the evidence that it had genuinely occurred. After establishing that the absence of good works proves that a professed faith is not real and saving but rather is deceptive and dead, he then emphasized the corollary truth that genuine salvation, which is always and only by God’s grace working through man’s faith, inevitably will be demonstrated outwardly in the form of righteous deeds.

Your turn to explain my verses that explicitly say WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this this [referring to salvation through faith] is not your own doing; it [salvation] is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 3;20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, ...We are saved by grace. Grace is not grace if you have to WORK FOR IT.
Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of [our] boasting? It is excluded [entirely ruled out, banished]. On what principle? On [the principle of good] works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we maintain that an individual is justified by faith distinctly apart from works of the Law [the observance of which has nothing to do with justification, that is, being declared free of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God] AMP
Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.

More verses... I'm lazy....last time I gave 20+ verses sayings GOD CHOSE US and you had not response, so I don't want to waste more time.

 

[Fastfredy0]

We are saved by faith alone, but if we do not make faith perfect by exercising by letting the light of Christ shine through us then it only becomes dead faith. Read James 2:14-26 as he explains this in full.

I agree to this proposal. We are saved by FAITH ALONE (which means not by works).
I stated this several times, even in simplistic terms.

Faith causes (salvation + works) (this is my proposal ... not that I am first one to think of it)

The counter to this that Hopeful proposes is (Faith + Works) causes Salvation

 

[Fastfredy0]

Nope, but I owe Him my life to Him for His amazing graciousness.

You may believe the above also and so do I. But unlike my beliefs, you state that you earned your salvation by your works. To which I congratulate you. So many failed to do the works you do to cause your salvation so, if your doctrine be true, you deserve applause for, with Christ's help, you have yourself. Bravo!!! You da man. (assuming your doctrine is correct)

Holding firm is an action.
Preserving till the end is an action.
Actions are works

Agreed. I believe that the action of faith is caused by God and therefore, though faith be a work, it is not my work. You, in my opinion, believe your faith is cause by yourself. Your work of faith is responsible for saving you from HELL. Again, if your doctrine be true, my hat is off to you. May the angels praise the works you have done. God has infinite glory, but you definitely have some too. Well done.

Actions are works, but thankfully not works of the Mosaic Law that Paul wrote against.

Still waiting for a URL to validate your "private interpretation" 2 Peter 1:20

The reason I am afraid for your soul, is that advocates of your Faith Only doctrine use it to throw out repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins as essential parts of conversion.
That leaves people to walk in the flesh instead of in the Spirit.
That is disastrous.

I have not said anything about repentance so your are drawing an unsubstantiated conclusion.
Aside: Repentance is a change of mind. If one has true faith then one must have repentance.

Re: Acts 2:38 baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins as essential parts of conversion.
I've be water baptized.... but not in order to have my sins forgiven. I did it as an act of obedience. You seem to believe in the ritual of being water baptized to be saved. Then you dismiss Galatians 5:2 by some private interpretation that baptism is not part of the LAW (something like that)... and therefore the statement that Christ is of no use to you is negated.

Re: Acts 2:38
The ritualist also appeals to Scripture to validate his notion that salvation comes through observing rituals. Verse 38 of the present passage is often cited in support of the ritualist viewpoint: “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” Ritualists ignore the biblical truth that salvation comes not through rituals but through faith in Jesus Christ. They fail to understand that “with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation” (Rom. 10:10).
Sadly, all of those aberrant views have legions of followers in our day. That shows that any position can be proven from the Bible by misinterpreting or taking passages out of context and failing to compare Scripture with Scripture.
MacArthur

Aside: I believe you have said you NEVER SIN. If that be true, then I assume your biblical interpretation are infallible and I am in deep do-do.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree to this proposal. We are saved by FAITH ALONE (which means not by works).
I stated this several times, even in simplistic terms.

Faith causes (salvation + works) (this is my proposal ... not that I am first one to think of it)

The counter to this that Hopeful proposes is (Faith + Works) causes Salvation

Without my "works", I am undistinguishable from the heathens.

You kind of present a moot point.
Salvation, caused or received or whatever other adjective describes it, won't be assured until after the final judgement.
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)
Faith "will" cause salvation indeed.
But the actions taken by real believers manifests one is on the right path, in the light, on the narrow path, in the Spirit, not in the flash.
Without those manifestations of belief-faith, there is no salvation in one's future.
"Caused" salvation is another moot point, as we have no control over what God does or doesn't do.
Only over what we do.

 

[Hopeful]

You may believe the above also and so do I. But unlike my beliefs, you state that you earned your salvation by your works.

I don't think I have ever said I will "earn" anything.

To which I congratulate you. So many failed to do the works you do to cause your salvation so, if your doctrine be true, you deserve applause for, with Christ's help, you have yourself. Bravo!!! You da man. (assuming your doctrine is correct)

The "work" I do is a manifestation of Christ in me.
Who are those who do not the works manifest?

Agreed. I believe that the action of faith is caused by God and therefore, though faith be a work, it is not my work. You, in my opinion, believe your faith is cause by yourself. Your work of faith is responsible for saving you from HELL. Again, if your doctrine be true, my hat is off to you. May the angels praise the works you have done. God has infinite glory, but you definitely have some too. Well done.

Will those disobedient to God inherit eternal life?
No.
And it is their own fault.

Still waiting for a URL to validate your "private interpretation" 2 Peter 1:20

You must have missed my explanation.

I have not said anything about repentance so your are drawing an unsubstantiated conclusion.
Aside: Repentance is a change of mind. If one has true faith then one must have repentance.

Changing, having,...more works.
But again, not of the Law.

Re: Acts 2:38 baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins as essential parts of conversion.
I've be water baptized.... but not in order to have my sins forgiven.

That is weird ???

I did it as an act of obedience. You seem to believe in the ritual of being water baptized to be saved.

Will the disobedient be saved?
By your obedience, will you be saved?
Will you be saved had you been disobedient?

Then you dismiss Galatians 5:2 by some private interpretation that baptism is not part of the LAW (something like that)... and therefore the statement that Christ is of no use to you is negated.

Lost me there...

Re: Acts 2:38
The ritualist also appeals to Scripture to validate his notion that salvation comes through observing rituals. Verse 38 of the present passage is often cited in support of the ritualist viewpoint: “Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.” Ritualists ignore the biblical truth that salvation comes not through rituals but through faith in Jesus Christ. They fail to understand that “with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation” (Rom. 10:10).
Sadly, all of those aberrant views have legions of followers in our day. That shows that any position can be proven from the Bible by misinterpreting or taking passages out of context and failing to compare Scripture with Scripture.
MacArthur

I guess the proof is in the pudding...so to speak.
Did your author ever mention if he was free from sin or not?
I can't accept anything from a servant of sin.

Aside: I believe you have said you NEVER SIN. If that be true, then I assume your biblical interpretation are infallible and I am in deep do-do.

Infallible?
That is a good one, LOL.
What I "am", is freed from the lusts of the flesh by water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sin, and crucified with Christ.
I am a new creature, reborn of the seed of God.
The "door" is open for you.

 

[for_his_glory]

This string is about FAITH ALONE. This means we are saved by FAITH ALONE and not by WORKS. FAITH will cause one to have works always, but those works are filthy rags that are a sign of faith, but the WORKS themselves are not salvific ...granted, works are a sign of salvation.
All your verses say that one does not have faith is one does not have works. The verse DO NOT SAY that either FAITH or WORKS bring about salvation. One has to look elsewhere in scripture to determine what brings about salvation. We both agree one ingredient is FAITH. You think another ingredient is WORKS. I don't think WORKS bring about salvation and there are verses the explicitly say so.

Same explanation by J. MacArthur
He was not dealing with the means of salvation at all, but rather with its outcome, the evidence that it had genuinely occurred. After establishing that the absence of good works proves that a professed faith is not real and saving but rather is deceptive and dead, he then emphasized the corollary truth that genuine salvation, which is always and only by God’s grace working through man’s faith, inevitably will be demonstrated outwardly in the form of righteous deeds.

Your turn to explain my verses that explicitly say WE ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR WORKS.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this this [referring to salvation through faith] is not your own doing; it [salvation] is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 3;20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, ...We are saved by grace. Grace is not grace if you have to WORK FOR IT.
Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of [our] boasting? It is excluded [entirely ruled out, banished]. On what principle? On [the principle of good] works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28 For we maintain that an individual is justified by faith distinctly apart from works of the Law [the observance of which has nothing to do with justification, that is, being declared free of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God] AMP
Isaiah 64:6 We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment.

More verses... I'm lazy....last time I gave 20+ verses sayings GOD CHOSE US and you had not response, so I don't want to waste more time.

I, nor does scripture say it takes faith + works to be saved. What it is saying that faith without works is dead faith. The works we do are the continued works of the Lord and not of our own self.

A good analogy would be, if someone bought you a car as a free gift to you, you have a free car no strings attached. But if you never drive that car and it turns into a bucket of rust then what good was that gift as it faded away and died.

Faith that is given freely, if not exercised will die. Think on 2 Timothy 4:7; 5:8; James 2:14-26.