Faith and Works: A delicate balance.

[Catholic Crusader]

I think the definition of "work" forces us to talk past each other unless definied.

Works of the "Law" (i.e. "Torah") = Do Not Save
Works of Christ's Command in response to God's grace = DO Save

Galatians 5:6:
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love."

James 2:20:
"But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?"

James 2:24:
"...You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

 

[dadof10]

I don't think it is the will of God for anyone to do hundreds of things throughout the day that are works related.

Could you please elaborate? You seem to be saying that it is not the will of God that believers keep the Commandments, hold their temper, not participate in gossip, etc., that it's not God's will that we refrain from sin. That certainly can't be what you mean.

 

[one_lost_coin]

There is no delicate balance between faith and works it is rather simple, Mary got it right when she said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

rather there is a giant chasm seperating "faith and works" from "our working" our way to heaven.

Please explain "our working" our way to heaven, and for the love of Pete don't tell me it has anything to to with
Purgatory

I meant "our working" in the way of the Pelagian or semiPelagian error condemned by the Church - Pelagius taught that people had the ability to fulfill the commands of God by exercising the freedom of human will apart from the grace of God. In other words, a person's free will is totally capable of choosing God and/or to do good or bad without the aid of Divine intervention. It is derived from the mistaken notion of Original Sin, well you can just read it hear http://www.carm.org/heresy/pelagianism.htm. Semi Pelagianism is a softer but no less heretical variation http://www.carm.org/heresy/semi-pelagianism.htm

I wanted to differentiate that form of "our works" from the "faith and works" (held in tandem to protect it from the mistaken notion of faith alone which James warns of) we do in cooperation with God's Grace which as always has been so very well described by St. Francis De Sales, Dof10 and cc.

In my humble experience there really has never seemed to be a thin line to be confused about whether I was doing God's will of Grace working through love or doing my own works to prove/make myself worthy of heaven that a delicate balance was needed because of accidently making a mistake of doing one over the other. I can't think of a time that I even thought I could work my way to heaven.

 

[one_lost_coin]

If the issue is so clear cut as you suggest, then why did Paul and James find it necessary to clarify the very same matter which we are still debating upon 2000 years later?

I would imagine in the hopes that we wouldn't be debating it 2000 years later and get on with the living of the faith which is the real struggle as many in this thread have pointed out. I think it is obvious their intention was always to set forth the Church's infallable teaching to instruct and protect us in the faith with true doctrine.

In their keeping us in the true faith we can work and grow as community bearing each others burdens when needed perform our functions in the body to the benefit of all and to the Glory of God. Truly live the works God prepared for us to walk in just like in the Pilgrims progress the stronger helped along the weaker all the way to and across that beautiful river to the Kingdom of God.

 

[dadof10]

If the issue is so clear cut as you suggest, then why did Paul and James find it necessary to clarify the very same matter which we are still debating upon 2000 years later?

We are not still debating the issue, they debated the issue and the marriage of faith and works was settled, then passed on for the next 1500 years. The Reformers did not accept their decision, and rekindled the debate. We have only been debating it for 500 years, give or take.

 

[Catholic Crusader]

If the issue is so clear cut as you suggest, then why did Paul and James find it necessary to clarify the very same matter which we are still debating upon 2000 years later?

We are not still debating the issue, they debated the issue and the marriage of faith and works was settled, then passed on for the next 1500 years. The Reformers did not accept their decision, and rekindled the debate. We have only been debating it for 500 years, give or take.

Correct