Faith without works........is Faith.

[Kidron]

Matthew 19:16-17

What about the man that ask Jesus what he must do to receive eternal life?

and?
Is that the Gospel?
Is that 1Corin 15:3-8?
Has Jesus asked you to become St Francis?
See, this is the slippery slope that can happen when you try to misapply one scripture to try to prove the whole bible.
So, my answer to you is this....
The Gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul, and he is the one you study when you want to understand the depths of "Faith", and "Justification", and "Atonement".
There is a reason that Paul said that Paul said this...
""""So when we preach that Christ was crucified, the Jews are offended and the Gentiles say it's all nonsense."""""
Its because if you try to preach works, you have gotten away from Grace, and once you do that, the Cross stops being the center of Justification and a person then becomes legalistic and "falls from grace" and wants to use James to try to stay saved, or Hebrews to try to prove you can "lose it"..

 

[jeff77]

and?
Is that the Gospel?
Is that 1Corin 15:3-8?
Has Jesus asked you to become St Francis?
See, this is the slippery slope that can happen when you try to misapply one scripture to try to prove the whole bible.
So, my answer to you is this....
The Gospel of the grace of God was given to Paul, and he is the one you study when you want to understand the depths of "Faith", and "Justification", and "Atonement".

I agree that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. It is just that in the OP it says "Faith without works is.....Faith". I understand it to be "Faith without works is dead".

 

[JLB]

Kidron said -

So, here is the thing JLB.
If you try to use one verse in James, that is not talking about SALVATION, to try to create a false gospel of works, then you have to step over entire letters that Paul wrote that are only designed to teach that "
Romans 5:1
""""Therefore , since we have BEEN JUSTIFIED THROUGH FAITH (SAVED), we have peace with God >THROUGH" our Lord Jesus Christ."""

You keep making the same mistake in your post's. You keep referring to the works of the law, when I am discussing the obedience of faith.

Do you believe that you can practice the works of the flesh and still be righteous.

Is that what you believe?


JLB

 

[Kidron]

I agree that we are saved by grace through faith and not of works. It is just that in the OP it says "Faith without works is.....Faith". I understand it to be "Faith without works is dead".

I was not quoting James.
I was saying that Faith, by itself, is Faith.
Im not implying that if a Christian is lazy and downloads porn and wont pay child support and lost their bible years ago.....im not saying this person has any works to prove they are saved...
But, James is not saying that this Christian who is a do nothing is LOST, he's only saying that the correct discipleship is to do what i do, which is to show your Faith by your works.
And you should....but if you dont, you are just as saved as James.
This is because works do not impute God's righteousness to you.......only FAITH does that.
"to him that WORKETH NOT but BELIEVETH ON Him who JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY......his FAITH is counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Now did you ever read that verse carefully?
It say's God himself justifies the UNGODLY".
Not the one who is working, or living right, or behaving as James's suggests is the way to do it.

 

[Kidron]

You keep making the same mistake in your post's. You keep referring to the works of the law, when I am discussing the obedience of faith.
Do you believe that you can practice the works of the flesh and still be righteous.
Is that what you believe?


JLB

I believe that God gives Righteousness to the UNGODLY.
So, you are asking me if this scripture is true.
My answer is , yes to Romans 4:5

"""""But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who declares the ungodly to be righteous, his faith is credited for righteousness."""

I believe Romans 3:22

""""Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:"""

See, i believe that God gives me His very Righteousness, because that is what he said.
Romans 4:5
""But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."""

So, if i understand that God now views me as RIGHTEOUS , because he "counted my faith as righteousness"...then the works i do or dont do, have no effect on my position as a Son of God.
And from there, i serve God, or i dont.
Ither way, ive been redeemed because Salvation has nothing to do with my behavior.

If you are asking me if a person's Christianity is useless, or as James says....."dead" because they are doing NOTHING for Christ, then id say that James is right, and that person needs to get back in the harness and serve.
Absolutely.
My Brother, the body of Christ is FULL of deadbeat dead faith useless Christians, that James was describing, but they are just as surely going to heaven as you are, as i am.
Thats what the Grace of God does....its keeps forgiving, keeps atoning, no matter what you do., or dont do.

 

[jeff77]

I was not quoting James.
I was saying that Faith, by itself, is Faith.
Im not implying that if a Christian is lazy and downloads porn and wont pay child support and lost their bible years ago.....im not saying this person has any works to prove they are saved...
But, James is not saying that this Christian who is a do nothing is LOST, he's only saying that the correct discipleship is to do what i do, which is to show your Faith by your works.
And you should....but if you dont, you are just as saved as James.
This is because works do not impute God's righteousness to you.......only FAITH does that.
"to him that WORKETH NOT but BELIEVETH ON Him who JUSTIFIES the UNGODLY......his FAITH is counted as RIGHTEOUSNESS".

Now did you ever read that verse carefully?
It say's God himself justifies the UNGODLY".
Not the one who is working, or living right, or behaving as James's suggests is the way to do it.

I will have to go back and read it more carefully. All I am really saying is that simply believing in the existence that Jesus is real does not make one saved. Where I am at right now in my walk is that I believe that everyone is given the opportunity to be saved. It is not like some of us just get it intellectually and some don't. It is what we do when the Holy Spirit reveals to us that we can be saved. I already have a thread that I started on this, so I don't want to get off topic. God bless

EDIT: I don't want to get off topic, but also I should have used some scripture in my post. In the thread I already started it is mostly based on Romans 1:20
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[JLB]

I believe that God gives Righteousness to the UNGODLY.
So, you are asking me if this scripture is true.
My answer is , yes to Romans 4:5

Again, Paul is contrasting the works of the law with the righteousness of faith.

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Romans 3:28-4:5

I couldn't agree more, that we are justified by faith, APART FROM THE WORKS OF THE LAW.

James would also agree with what Paul writes here.

What James teaches is that faith, all by itself, without obedience [works] is dead.

What you seem to be unaware of is the principle of faith, that James is teaching, which has nothing at all to do with the works of the law.

It's called the obedience of faith.


Let's look at this from Paul's letter.

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Romans 16:26

This principle within the law of faith is well documented in the book of Hebrews.

Here is an example:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. Hebrews 11:7

If Noah doesn't obey God, and complete the Ark, then his faith is dead, and he is disobedient and therefore unrighteous.

What makes a person righteous, is that person's obedient action, when God speaks or leads that person to do something.

What proves that person believes God when He commands, that person to do something is: they obey Him and do what He says.

If not, then they are disobedient and not right in there action, therefore they are unrighteous.

What would you think of a slave that you bought with money, that wouldn't do what you said?

What would you think of a son that disobeyed you?

19 Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?
20 For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God's.1 Corinthians 6:19-20


Did you know that sons of God, angels, were cast down to hell because they disobeyed God.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

When we hear the Gospel and believe, we are forgiven all of our past sins.

All things have become new.

A fresh start.

Now, we are expected to practice righteousness.

If you are disobedient and choose to live a life of gratifying the desire of the flesh, then you will not inherit the kingdom of God.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

What James teaches is that faith, all by itself, without obedience [works] is dead.

This is 100% correct.

James asked, If a man says he has faith, but not works, can faith save him? The answer is NO, NO and NO.

James goes on to say. You believe in One God, You do well. The devils also believe that, and tremble.

Without works, your no better off than the devils that also believe in God. The devils believe, they tremble, but they sure won't use that faith to respond to God in any form of obedience. Their faith won't help them, though they believe in God like we do.

Now after reading this whole thread and every post, there are lots of things that are being connected to Faith without works is dead, that James was not even referring to.

I just got back from a Break given to me.. .cough... cough..

I'll expound on what JLB said though, that faith by itself without obedience is dead. Then I got to get some sleep.

John 2:1-11

Jesus gets caught up at a Wedding with his disciples, and His mother is also there. Servants are there running around and wouldn't you know? They wanted Wine with the Wedding. Mary goes over to Jesus and says, They have no wine, they want wine.

Jesus says, Mother, what do I have to do with you and them wanting Wine? My time is not yet, OK.

Mary then Gathers up the servants and tells them. Whatever He says do, You do it. (Obedience)
Jesus then tells the servants, Gather up those 6 stone pots, fill them with water and give that to the Governor.

The servants knew those pots were filled with water, knew there was no wine in there, but they did exactly as Jesus told them to do. They must have been thinking this is crazy, but here we go.

Mary and the servants could have prayed all day for God to send wine, could have just believed that wine would show up somehow, some way. It took an act of obedience to activate the impossible.

Whole lot more on what James said, but bed time.

Blessings everyone.

Mike.

 

[Qchan]

I have to agree with justification by faith alone. Because the bible says:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Romans 11:6 (ERV) says, " And if he chose them by grace, then it is not what they have done that made them his people. If they could be made his people by what they did, his gift of grace would not really be a gift."

Romans 4:5 (AKJV) says, " But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Romans 5:1-2 (NLT) says, " Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory."

Romans 4:13-14 (AKJV), " For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"

Romans 4:16 (NLT) says, " So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe."

Galatians 2:16 says (AKJV), " Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:21 (NLT) says, "I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die."

2 Corinthians 3:6 says, " He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life."

 

[JLB]

I have to agree with justification by faith alone. Because the bible says:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV) says, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them."

Romans 11:6 (ERV) says, " And if he chose them by grace, then it is not what they have done that made them his people. If they could be made his people by what they did, his gift of grace would not really be a gift."

Romans 4:5 (AKJV) says, " But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Romans 5:1-2 (NLT) says, " Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory."

Romans 4:13-14 (AKJV), " For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"

Romans 4:16 (NLT) says, " So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe."

Galatians 2:16 says (AKJV), " Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:21 (NLT) says, "I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die."

2 Corinthians 3:6 says, " He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life."

Those are contrasting the works of the law, not obedience.

What must one do to be saved?

REPENT, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

You can believe that Jesus is the Messiah, till the cows come home, but if you still serve and obey Satan then Satan is your Lord.

Like James says: the demons "believe"... But who do they serve?


Jesus said: Why do you call Me Lord, yet you do not DO what I say?
Luke 6:46

JLB

 

[Qchan]

Those are contrasting the works of the law, not obedience.

What must one do to be saved?

REPENT, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

You can believe that Jesus is the Messiah, till the cows come home, but if you still serve and obey Satan then Satan is your Lord.

Like James says: the demons "believe"... But who do they serve?


Jesus said: Why do you call Me Lord, yet you do not DO what I say?
Luke 6:46

JLB

And what is obedience? Wouldn't you say that's obeying the Law of Moses?

 

[JLB]

And what is obedience? Wouldn't you say that's obeying the Law of Moses?

Only if you think that the Gospel is the law of Moses...

Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand... is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Those who do not obey the Gospel of the Kingdom, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8


JLB

 

[Qchan]

Only if you think that the Gospel is the law of Moses...

Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand... is the Gospel of the Kingdom.

Those who do not obey the Gospel of the Kingdom, will not inherit the kingdom of God.

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-8


JLB

So, what is the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'll tell you what it is:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (NASB) says, "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,"

That is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ means to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ explained to us by Paul.

 

[Brother Mike]

I have to agree with justification by faith alone. Because the bible says:

Well, things never start off well when the OP starts with Misquoting a scripture.

Faith without works is Faith.

Faith, without Works is dead, and Faith alone can't save you. That is scripture.

Jesus said: Why do you call Me Lord, yet you do not DO what I say?
Luke 6:46

Jesus is saying the same things James said. You believe in God, you believe in Jesus being Lord. Even the devils believe in God, and it causes them to tremble in fear.

Thing is, the devils faith is in vain, because though they believe, they don't obey God. They are not activating their faith in what they know to be true.

If a person by faith Made and confessed Jesus is Lord, than it was that faith that gave them eternal life. However, faith also takes action to what it believes. Saying Jesus is my Lord, but I never do what he says, then it's pretty clear Jesus is not really my Lord. What I want to do is really my Lord.

It's like a parent getting busted for Child neglect. They stand in front of the judge crying saying that they love their kids, but the court has records and proof the parent never hardly fed their kids, always had drugs in the house, left their kids alone at young ages so they could go to parties. The love they claimed to have for their kids was in vain, and the Judge not buying any of it.

If I promise you that I care about you, and will come over to help move furniture, but never show up when I say I will then it should be pretty clear that even though I say something, I don't believe it enough to act on it.

 

[Qchan]

Well, things never start off well when the OP starts with Misquoting a scripture.



Faith, without Works is dead, and Faith alone can't save you. That is scripture.

What if they quote multiple scriptures that all say the same thing? Instead of arguing with scripture, you should perhaps look at it from another angle. James isn't telling you that faith comes from good works. He's actually saying that good works comes from faith. Meaning, good works come out automatically when you have faith. It's an automatic thing.

 

[JLB]

So, what is the gospel of Jesus Christ? I'll tell you what it is:

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (NASB) says, "Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,"

That is the gospel of Jesus Christ. Obeying the gospel of Jesus Christ means to believe in the gospel of Jesus Christ explained to us by Paul.

The point and context of what Paul is writing here is the Resurrection.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,
5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep.
7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles.
8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.1 Corinthians 15:1-8


Paul is dispelling the false notion that some believe and have been taught that there is no Resurrection.

Chapter 15 is Paul's case against such teaching.

as he goes on to say...

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.

14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.

15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise.

16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.

17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.

19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.
1 Corinthians 15:13-23


Paul is not trying to teach, "another Gospel".

He is simply making a point, about the Resurrection of the dead.

The Gospel of the Kingdom is: Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Again, a person can say they "believe" in Jesus, but if they live a life of serving the Devil, then they show by their actions [works of the flesh] that they don't believe, which means obey.

Unbelief and Disobedience are the same Greek word. Did you know that?

Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience,
Hebrews 4:6 NKJV

Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Disobedience is unbelief.


JLB

 

[JLB]

What if they quote multiple scriptures that all say the same thing? Instead of arguing with scripture, you should perhaps look at it from another angle. James isn't telling you that faith comes from good works. He's actually saying that good works comes from faith. Meaning, good works come out automatically when you have faith. It's an automatic thing.

It's not "good works" that James teaches, it's obedience.

Obedience to the Voice of God; to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

OBEDIENCE; NOT "GOOD WORKS".

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. James 2:21-24

....and not by faith only.

Please read that.

NOT BY FAITH ONLY.

The works that James is teaching, is: the effort or action, that obedience requires.

If you say that Jesus Christ is your Lord, and you never do what He says, then you have "believed" in vain.

See, that's the part you didn't mention when you quoted 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,



JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

What if they quote multiple scriptures that all say the same thing? Instead of arguing with scripture, you should perhaps look at it from another angle. James isn't telling you that faith comes from good works. He's actually saying that good works comes from faith. Meaning, good works come out automatically when you have faith. It's an automatic thing.

Please avoid using bold type unless you use it to highlight part of a scripture or a specific point your making. [Edited by staff. Let's be nice.]

James is not talking about "Good" Works come from faith. In fact, James is not even "Really" talking about getting born again. He is talking about Faith, Faith that will save you physically from something, like sickness or hunger.

If a man says........ something a man says, and that man says He has faith. Then it's pretty clear that man is a believer, otherwise he would not even claim that.

James other example seeing a Brother and sister needing food. You say, Be filled full of food, Be at peace, and be warm, sounds like a Word of Faith teaching confession. They are speaking over a person by faith. It's pretty clear they did not learn to speak that being a unsaved heathen.

James point was to feed them, if you really believe they need to be warm, fed and have peace. Take action to what you believe.

When you start talking about "Good" Works, lots of good works is done with no faith at all. Lots of folks feeding people out of just having to be a Christian, because that is what we do.

Good works is produced by character. Not faith. By their fruits we know them. Love, peace, faithfulness, Joy.

1Th_4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1Ti_6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

If you have love, then love responds to others in a positive way. God teaches us Love himself, and His love is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Spirit. It's Love that wants to help a lady across the street, feed someone, help a brother or sister out.

Faith is something we get from hearing something. Faith comes by hearing. Love, Peace, Joy come from inside, the fruit of the Spirit (spirit)

Without Love, Faith won't even work. (Gal 5:6)

So James is not speaking about good works, He asked the question if Faith alone can save you, the answer is NO, it can not.

Faith in Grace gets us born again. However the Faith part is in vain if we don't do as Paul said and follow after Love, peace, Joy.

We are mixing up faith that moves mountains and faith that gets us born again in this thread.

 

[Qchan]

Please avoid using bold type unless you use it to highlight part of a scripture or a specific point your making. [Edited by staff. Let's be nice.]

Sorry... I thought it was cool looking... I will stop... There we go.

James is not talking about "Good" Works come from faith. In fact, James is not even "Really" talking about getting born again. He is talking about Faith, Faith that will save you physically from something, like sickness or hunger.

If a man says........ something a man says, and that man says He has faith. Then it's pretty clear that man is a believer, otherwise he would not even claim that.

James other example seeing a Brother and sister needing food. You say, Be filled full of food, Be at peace, and be warm, sounds like a Word of Faith teaching confession. They are speaking over a person by faith. It's pretty clear they did not learn to speak that being a unsaved heathen.

James point was to feed them, if you really believe they need to be warm, fed and have peace. Take action to what you believe.

When you start talking about "Good" Works, lots of good works is done with no faith at all. Lots of folks feeding people out of just having to be a Christian, because that is what we do.

Good works is produced by character. Not faith. By their fruits we know them. Love, peace, faithfulness, Joy.

1Th_4:9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another.

1Ti_6:11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

If you have love, then love responds to others in a positive way. God teaches us Love himself, and His love is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Spirit. It's Love that wants to help a lady across the street, feed someone, help a brother or sister out.

Faith is something we get from hearing something. Faith comes by hearing. Love, Peace, Joy come from inside, the fruit of the Spirit (spirit)

Without Love, Faith won't even work. (Gal 5:6)

So James is not speaking about good works, He asked the question if Faith alone can save you, the answer is NO, it can not.

Faith in Grace gets us born again. However the Faith part is in vain if we don't do as Paul said and follow after Love, peace, Joy.

We are mixing up faith that moves mountains and faith that gets us born again in this thread.

I'd love to believe you, but that's simply not what the bible says. I will have to disagree with both you and JLB, because the bible says:

Romans 4:16 (NLT) says, "So the promise is received by faith. It is given as a free gift. And we are all certain to receive it, whether or not we live according to the law of Moses, if we have faith like Abraham’s. For Abraham is the father of all who believe."

Galatians 3:2-5 (NLT) says, "Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. How foolish can you be? After starting your new lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? Have you experienced so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?"

You receive the Spirit once you believe the message of Jesus Christ. That's it. So, what does the Spirit provide?

Galatians 5:22-23 says, “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.”

I do not need a long explanation to tell this to you. The bible does a good enough job
So, back to James: Faith produces good works, because faith leads to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit helps bear the fruit. Thus, good works.

 

[Edward]

James 2:14-17New King James Version (NKJV)
Faith Without Works Is Dead
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Having faith by itself does not mean anything if one does not show that they have it by the way they live their life.

This is the truth. The affect of Faith will absolutely change ones life and outlook on life so their behavior will be affected and one will 'naturally' demonstrate good will and works towards fellow brothers and sisters. Walking it out is a good way to put it.