Faith without works........is Faith.

[MarkT]

You have to examine yourself if your conscience is clear.

Jesus said temptations to sin are sure to come. Luke 17:1 And he said, 'Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.” Mt. 26:41 So indeed Paul is saying there seems to be a law at work in his members or flesh (a law, not the law) which makes him do what he does not want to do. So he says, 'Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I of myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. Romans 7:25 And that's the way it is, because the flesh is weak. The physical body has needs. For example sex; You don't want to lust but you do. It's not a decision. You don't want to covet, but you do. It's not a decision. There is always the desire to want more. Again, it is not a decision to want more.

If the love of God is in a man, then he does not sin deliberately. He does not make idols. He does not worship false gods. He would not attack his brother with the intention of killing him. He would not sue him or take him to court. That would be a deliberate act and then there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins.
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

 

[smaller]

(Oh and PS, you put words in my mouth when you replied to my post.
"Common claim, that sin is only sin on the outside."
It is bad form to accuse somebody of saying something that they didn't, then saying they are wrong because of it. That's a "common claim" of those who don't know what they are talking about. Please forgive me, but do not respond to my posts with that spirit I beg you. Thank you)

It's a hard and sometimes impossible concept to understand that "believers" are children of God, but in their flesh abides temptation of the tempter, which is sin.

It is however a harmonic remedy to the bulk of the scriptures. The "faith" or "belief" in Christ we have will avail the tempter NADA. And in the light of this fact it is impossible to justify the entirety of ourselves, presently. Two truths not only can be simultaneously true, but simultaneously opposed.

The same Apostle, Paul, that said this:

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

also said this about himself:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

And some believers will seek to harmonize these matters in order to avoid thinking Paul was speaking nonsense or was a hypocrite. Paul provided the harmony to get through this.

 

[smaller]

Yes, it seems many Christians like to stop Paul's discourse in Romans 7 about 'not being able to do the good he wants to do' before he gets to the good news about Jesus who rescues us from that problem:

Paul's Roman discourses remain factual, every word. Romans 8 doesn't eliminate the facts Paul delineated about his personal disclosures in Romans 7. It's the same method of discourse he uses throughout his Apostolic disclosures and is found in almost every aspect of his scripture. Yes, Paul did have evil present with him. Romans 7:21. Yes, Paul did have sin indwelling his flesh that most importantly was "not him" as Gods son. Romans 7:17-20. Yes, Paul did have a messenger of Satan in his flesh and temptation in his flesh, with attendant lusts. 2 Corinthians 12:7, Gal. 4:14, Gal 5:17, Romans 7:7-14, etc.

These operations do not cooperate with Gods Words and in fact are made to automatically resist and to deceive and to destroy. Evil present, the messenger of Satan in the flesh, temptation, none of these things "change" their stripes after salvation. People of God are destined to come into MORE adversity, not less, when these inherent conditions come into contention with Gods Living Word(s). We are guaranteed to come into spiritual battles and wrestling matches with these things. Eph. 6:11-13.

Nobody makes their indwelling sin "obedient" or "under grace." Nobody makes evil present not be what it is. Nobody converts the messenger of Satan in their flesh or puts the messenger of Satan "under grace." These things not only do not happen, but can not happen.

We can however speak honestly, and not be hypocrites. We can lay the rightful condemnation on ourselves, in the light of Paul's disclosures. There is no faster track to dividing from sin than to understand it is DEMONIC and of a wicked vile entity. It does however stick in the craw when believers have to face this fact, that the tempter does operate within their minds via the avenue of temptations. That is the exact ground where the very first battle is LOST, when we don't see that it is something that is NOT of us, but of the DEVIL, and we mistakenly then "overlook" or "excuse" that worker and his vile working and equally vainly try to justify it or put it under Grace.

"He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 8:3-4 NASB)

Walking according to the Spirit is the answer to the problem that smaller has condemned all of us believers to. The Spirit is the answer to man's problem with sin. That's what the unmerited favor of God is all about--grace to be righteous, not grace to accept a fate of unrighteousness (and still somehow be saved despite it).

If you think you heard that from me, you haven't. I've said no such things here at this board in the 12 years I've posted here, EVER.

BUT, you may want to examine the source of that thought.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul's Roman discourses remain factual, every word. Romans 8 doesn't eliminate the facts Paul delineated about his personal disclosures in Romans 7.

Then he was lying when he wrapped his Romans 7 discourse up with this?

"24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!
3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 7:24-25, Romans 8:3-4 NASB)

You're saying he WASN'T set free. But we says that through Jesus Christ he now fulfills the law through the power of the Spirit in answer to the vain attempt to fulfill the law through the flesh. This is the hope of the Christian, but all I see in your doctrine is a spineless acceptance of the inevitable 'truth' that the Christian is doomed to be weak in the flesh.

This doesn't mean he was sinlessly perfect. It means he knows that the power of the Spirit is how one defeats sin and moves on toward perfection (Philippians 3:12 NASB). Where is the 'pressing on' and moving toward perfection in your doctrine?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

People of God are destined to come into MORE adversity, not less, when these inherent conditions come into contention with Gods Living Word(s). We are guaranteed to come into spiritual battles and wrestling matches with these things. Eph. 6:11-13.

We all know this. But you seem to acquiesce to some supposed truth that Christians are doomed to be destroyed by this increasing adversity. I never hear you talk about victory over sin in Christ. I only hear you talk about our inevitable defeat in the face of the enemy.....but that it's okay, that's the way it is, and God knows it. Paul has quite a different outlook on it than you do:

"9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; 11 in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained it or have already become perfect, but I press on so that I may lay hold of that for which also I was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I do not regard myself as having laid hold of it yet; but one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and reaching forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let us therefore, as many as are perfect, have this attitude; and if in anything you have a different attitude, God will reveal that also to you" (Philippians 3:9-15 NASB)

Based on what I see above it looks like your doctrine is the one that is blinded to the truth and has yet to have God reveal the truth to.

 

[smaller]

Then he was lying when he wrapped his Romans 7 discourse up with this?

"24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit." (Romans 7:24-25, Romans 8:3-4 NASB)

You're saying he WASN'T set free.

I've said no such thing. Paul was NOT the sin that indwelt his flesh, by his facts in Romans 7:17-21.

He was made free of that by understanding this DIVISION. Nor was Paul his own "tempter" or the "source" of his own temptations. He recognized and understood that these workings were not him as Gods child, Gods son. Nor was Paul "forced" to lie about these matters and spoke honestly. He was assuredly not a hypocrite in this regards, vainly trying to "justify" the presence of indwelling sin, or claiming that he didn't have evil present with him when he in fact did.

He WALKED in DIVISION from that working that was NOT HIM. He did not try to justify the "entirety" of himself, as to his present state.

In Galatians 4, Paul brings all these matters down to a one liner:

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

This matter was derived from "allegory." Just as it was impossible for Ishmael, a "son of the flesh" to be THE HEIR of Abraham, it is equally impossible for any of us to justify sin indwelling the flesh, evil present, which is of the tempter.

And it is equally impossible to CONDEMN Isaac, the son of Promise, just as it is impossible to damn/condemn any child of God in Christ, children of the PROMISE.

But we says that through Jesus Christ he now fulfills the law through the power of the Spirit in answer to the vain attempt to fulfill the law through the flesh. This is the hope of the Christian, but all I see in your doctrine is a spineless acceptance of the inevitable 'truth' that the Christian is doomed to be weak in the flesh.

There will be zero justifications for indwelling sin, evil present or works of the tempter in ANYONE, particularly believers. Nor will anyone who is "in Truth" try to go that direction.

The essence of our Christian Hope is for a NEW BODY that is "not subject" to the current inherent problems of the temporal flesh, it's lusts and the operations of the tempter in this current environment.

Anyone who has leaped ahead of present reality is going to have scriptural harmony problems of various sorts.

Here, Paul describes both our PRESENT STATE and the STATE THAT IS TO COME.

1 Cor. 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

It is quite entirely pointless to try to make the 'natural body' that is corrupt, weak, dishonorable be anything other than what it currently IS. We have A PROMISE of faith to look forward to, and even enter into measures of spiritual things, even in this present state.

None of that requires lies or hypocrisy about our "present planting." Nor is there any requirement to justify that which WILL pass away, as it can NOT be done.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Nobody makes their indwelling sin "obedient" or "under grace." Nobody makes evil present not be what it is. Nobody converts the messenger of Satan in their flesh or puts the messenger of Satan "under grace." These things not only do not happen, but can not happen.

Christians don't tame sin. They put it to death...

"(F)or if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" (sons inherit the kingdom, not the slaves in the kingdom--Galatians 4:30 NASB)
Romans 8:13-15 NASB

Where is the putting to death of sin by the believer in your doctrine? Where is the fearless son who inherits the kingdom, not the slave to fear still serving the law of sin and death through the flesh, in your doctrine?

 

[smaller]

We all know this. But you seem to acquiesce to some supposed truth that Christians are doomed to be destroyed by this increasing adversity.

Where are you coming up with this stuff? I've made NO SUCH statements.

I never hear you talk about victory over sin in Christ.

I don't use faith to condemn any believer AND believe that everyone who has called upon Christ to save them SHALL BE SAVED.

There are many of you however that DO walk in condemnation to believers. Every last one of you "freewillers" use freewill to damn christians for sin, even while you are sinners. This is spiritual blindness.

I only hear you talk about our inevitable defeat in the face of the enemy.....but that it's okay, that's the way it is, and God knows it. Paul has quite a different outlook on it than you do:

I fully expect that the devil and his messengers WILL be ultimately destroyed. And that the present body that is subject to weakness, corruption, dishonor and death will be CHANGED. This is the basis of the Gospel.

Based on what I see above it looks like your doctrine is the one that is blinded to the truth and has yet to have God reveal the truth to.

First of all I don't have "my doctrine." I can look at scriptural reality and not have to fall into lies and hypocrisy about the present state of any believer, including myself. IF Paul had evil present with him (Romans 7:21) THEN so do I. IF Paul had indwelling sin that was not him, THEN so do I. Romans 7:17-20. IF Paul had temptation in his flesh (Galatians 4:14) THEN so do I.

It is not a SIN to speak truthfully about these matters as PAUL DID. These conditions of fact bring us into the spiritual ground of MERCY/GRACE solely in of and by Christ, and NOT of ourselves. It is also the ground that brings out OUT of hypocrisy and lying. Paul did not try to justify himself, obviously. Yet, he also did not CONDEMN himself for the conditions of his present planting. He recognized his current state of being, and spoke honestly about it. I would expect anyone "in Truth" to be no different than Paul.

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

It is a good work to walk IN HONESTY. It is THE GIFT OF GOD in Christ to speak HONESTLY.

I see myself as scripture has presented "me."

Romans 9:
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

I see no value in justifying the "vessel of dishonor" in anyone, including my sweet old self.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

also said this about himself:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

And some believers will seek to harmonize these matters in order to avoid thinking Paul was speaking nonsense or was a hypocrite. Paul provided the harmony to get through this.

Please stop throwing this around as if Paul continues to be a blasphemer and a murderous persecutor of Christians:

"13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life." (1 Timothy 1:13-16 NASB)

The Lord had mercy on him. He's not those things anymore (vs. 13). You keep using verse 15 waaaaaay out of context to make it appear that he was a completely defeated sinning Christian. Please stop.

Was Paul still someone who sins? Of course. But please stop saying he thought he was the worst sinning Christian of us all.

 

[smaller]

Christians don't tame sin. They put it to death...

Point remains, it is THERE to be so put so, not denied or covered up.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

No different than Paul's presentation, here:

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

Trying to make the "persecutor" different will not happen.

Where is the putting to death of sin by the believer in your doctrine? Where is the fearless son who inherits the kingdom, not the slave to fear still serving the law of sin and death through the flesh, in your doctrine?

You are vainly trying to make this a "one or the other" situation when it is in fact BOTH. We don't let sin reign, but we certainly don't DENY that it is there to "attempt" to do so. IT will not do anything different than what it IS.

Romans 6:12
Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

 

[smaller]

Please stop throwing this around as if Paul continues to be a blasphemer and a murderous persecutor of Christians:

Paul made a very clear statement of fact, and that fact was this:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Not WAS, AM, present tense.

If we understand what Paul is showing here, we understand that Apostles are "singled out" for even greater internal battles with THE TEMPTER.

That is exactly "how" he derived this statement of fact, and it is confirmed by 2 Cor. 12:7, showing his own enemy in his flesh, the messenger of SATAN.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

smaller, in your doctrine what happened to sin in the fourth type of person Jesus talks about?

14 "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." (Luke 8:14-15 NASB)

Did it ever occur to you that the righteous people your doctrine condemns have moved on to this fourth quality of soil? Why do you condemn these people?

 

[smaller]

The Lord had mercy on him. He's not those things anymore (vs. 13). You keep using verse 15 waaaaaay out of context to make it appear that he was a completely defeated sinning Christian. Please stop.

Was Paul still someone who sins? Of course. But please stop saying he thought he was the worst sinning Christian of us all.

No, Paul did NOT SIN. The sin indwelling his flesh, the evil present with him, the messenger of Satan SINNED.

Paul did NOT sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Paul made a very clear statement of fact, and that fact was this:

1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Not WAS, AM, present tense.

If we understand what Paul is showing here, we understand that Apostles are "singled out" for even greater internal battles with THE TEMPTER.

That is exactly "how" he derived this statement of fact, and it is confirmed by 2 Cor. 12:7, showing his own enemy in his flesh, the messenger of SATAN.

So you are going to ignore the context and say Paul is still a blasphemer and a violent man and a persecutor of the Church in spite of him having received God's mercy?

"13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief; 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life." (1 Timothy 1:13-16 NASB)

I can't help but to sense this common Protestant understanding of what it means to receive mercy here: We get God's mercy and are saved with no obligation or expectation of actually being changed in behavior. You know the 'Faith without works....is the faith that saves' belief.

 

[smaller]

smaller, in your doctrine what happened to sin in the fourth type of person Jesus talks about?

There is no "fourth type." Jesus is showing us the same thing that Paul shows us in Romans 7, about how indwelling sin, evil present/the TEMPTER enters the heart and reacts adversely to THE WORD, the LAWs of God.

First, by theft, A SIN. Second, by affliction and persecution, another sin. Third, by deceit and lusts, another sin, and finally, those who heard it all, figure it out, that it was the same bad actor, the TEMPTER, in each progression.

I condemn no one who has called upon God in Christ to save them. They shall be saved.

The tempter, his ways and works will NOT be justified in any person, believer or unbeliever.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, Paul did NOT SIN. The sin indwelling his flesh, the evil present with him, the messenger of Satan SINNED.

Paul did NOT sin.

Of course he sinned. You are confusing his sin not being held against him legally with he himself actually sinning. That is how sinning Paul has ceased sinning and no longer bears the sin he commits. God no longer holds it to his account because of his faith in the forgiveness of Christ........as long as he stays in that faith.

"God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them" (2 Corinthians 5:18-19 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no "fourth type." Jesus is showing us the same thing that Paul shows us in Romans 7, about how indwelling sin, evil present/the TEMPTER enters the heart and reacts adversely to THE WORD, the LAWs of God.

First, by theft, A SIN. Second, by affliction and persecution, another sin. Third, by deceit and lusts, another sin, and finally, those who heard it all, figure it out, that it was the same bad actor, the TEMPTER, in each progression.

I condemn no one who has called upon God in Christ to save them. They shall be saved.

The tempter, his ways and works will NOT be justified in any person, believer or unbeliever.

You didn't answer the question. What happened to this irresistable truth about sin always being present and growing in the Christian who has attained to the last type of soil Jesus speaks about?

15 "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance." (Luke 8:15 NASB)

Why does your doctrine condemn the person who has victory over his sin (compared to those who don't)? Do you think it's right to point fingers of judgment at Christians who do what Paul says to do and have learned with great success to put sin to death in their members?

 

[smaller]

So you are going to ignore the context and say Paul is still a blasphemer and a violent man and a persecutor of the Church in spite of him having received God's mercy?

Are you going to ignore the context of "I am" and see rather "I was" which is not stated?

I can't help but to sense this common Protestant understanding of what it means to receive mercy here: We get God's mercy and are saved with no obligation or expectation of actually being changed in behavior. You know the 'Faith without works....is the faith that saves' belief.

Patently false. No one in their right mind as a believer wants or desires to follow evil or be a slave of it, particularly if they see such things are of the devil.

What availed Paul would avail the messenger of Satan in his flesh, exactly nothing. Paul confronts these matters HEAD ON and doesn't hold back any punches. Paul stood solely on Grace through faith in Christ Alone, because he showed us his personal present reality and didn't have anywhere else to stand. When Paul stood before God in Christ, and RECEIVED his revelations, he did so with "evil present" with him, "indwelling sin" in his flesh, and a messenger of Satan in his flesh, which I'll keep pointing to, in Romans 7:7-14, Romans 7:17-20, Romans 7:21, 2 Cor. 12:7, Galatians 4:14 etc etc.

Paul knew Grace and Mercy by faith in Christ ALONE allowed him to therefore stand, and he stood HONESTLY in these sights.

I can't see the same about too many today. Coverups and excuses and denials are the order of the day.

I prefer HIS LIGHT and HIS EXPOSURE.

People do not care for THE LIGHT OF GOD in Christ to shine upon them IN THIS WAY, because why?

John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

A believer WILL bring their "wicked heads" to the chopping block of God in Christ, in submission. They will "stone" themselves with The Word of God in Christ.

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Both of these statements apply to every believer:

Matthew 21:44
And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

 

[smaller]

Of course he sinned.

You missed the points, entirely, and only see Paul. Paul did not see himself as "only Paul." He saw himself in the LIGHT of God in Christ's exposure.

Romans 9:
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

If anyone does NOT think they have a "vessel of dishonor" to divide, separate and purge from, here it is again, applied to believers:

2 Tim. 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

You are confusing his sin not being held against him legally with he himself actually sinning.

If you think that the "messenger of Satan" the "evil present" in Paul's flesh was let off the hook by GRACE you are sadly mistaken.

Paul didn't vainly try to justify the evil present with him, the sin indwelling his flesh or the messenger of Satan therein or equally vainly try to make these things any different than what they were/are.

He knew where he stood, on Grace through faith in Christ Alone. Paul, understanding his state, had nowhere else to stand.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You missed the points, entirely, and only see Paul. Paul did not see himself as "only Paul." He saw himself in the LIGHT of God in Christ's exposure.

Romans 9:
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

If anyone does NOT think they have a "vessel of dishonor" to divide, separate and purge from, here it is again, applied to believers:

2 Tim. 2:
20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.



If you think that the "messenger of Satan" the "evil present" in Paul's flesh was let off the hook by GRACE you are sadly mistaken.

Paul didn't vainly try to justify the evil present with him, the sin indwelling his flesh or the messenger of Satan therein or equally vainly try to make these things any different than what they were/are.

He knew where he stood, on Grace through faith in Christ Alone. Paul, understanding his state, had nowhere else to stand.

You have a very confusing doctrine.
Relate all of this to the last type of soil Jesus talks about in Luke 8:15 NASB.

Considering the FACT that a Christian can attain to this type of soil I find your doctrine of no value. What I see is a kind of 'Cain' response to those who have attained to the last type of soil Jesus talks about. Your doctrine being of value to you alone to assail those you perceive as self-righteous and blind to the sin they really have to be committing as if it's impossible that someone could have the victory over sin that Jesus talks about in Luke 8:15 NASB.