Bible Study Faith without works

[stovebolts]

You mean PREVARICATE?

I don't prevaricate.

I was posting to another member.

Please repeat your question to me if I missed it.
Thanks.

What does prevaricate even mean?

 

[GodsGrace]

What does prevaricate even mean?

LOL
It means to avoid answering a question.

 

[stovebolts]

LOL
It means to avoid answering a question.

Now tell me the truth. Did you already know that, or did you have to look it up?

 

[GodsGrace]

Now tell me the truth. Did you already know that, or did you have to look it up?

I understood it just by the sentence.
Then I looked it up to make sure and I was right....
as usual !!


It's not a word used much. We really shouldn't be using these words...the best understood words should always be used, and the simplest words. In this case, "avoid" should have been used.

A good explanation is here:

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/prevarication

 

[WIP]

I am not sure why you are using the term that I used to try to negate the overall spirit of what I am saying. Sounds like a red herring to the main point to me.

Here's a simple question: What must we do to be saved? If the answer to this question requires us to do something of any kind, then isn't that work based salvation?

If the answer is that we don't do anything to receive salvation, then God will save everybody. Down to the greatest sinner imaginable.

Which is it?

In peace

God Himself decides who is saved and when. One thing we do know, as God has declared it, is that those of us that reject God will most definitely not see salvation. What I'm saying is we cannot force God's hand. Even if we do everything perfectly, it is still up to God and God alone to decide whether or not He will save. It is by His grace only.

 

[GodsGrace]

God Himself decides who is saved and when. One thing we do know, as God has declared it, is that those of us that reject God will most definitely not see salvation. What I'm saying is we cannot force God's hand. Even if we do everything perfectly, it is still up to God and God alone to decide whether or not He will save. It is by His grace only.

It sounds like you're saying that we can't know whether or not we'll see salvation in the end.

??

 

[WIP]

It sounds like you're saying that we can't know whether or not we'll see salvation in the end.

??

I'm saying we deserve death and we are to have faith in God.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm saying we deserve death and we are to have faith in God.

Can't disagree with that.
But the question was:
Can we know we are saved?

 

[Truthfrees]

Can we know we are saved?

Romans 8:16

 

[GodsGrace]

Romans 8:16

I'm not speaking about someone else.
I'm speaking about ourselves.

We certainly cannot judge the soul of another.
We're not God.

But we can be reasonably certain whether or not we ourselves are saved. If not, what joy is there?

 

[Truthfrees]

I'm not speaking about someone else.
I'm speaking about ourselves.

We certainly cannot judge the soul of another.
We're not God.

But we can be reasonably certain whether or not we ourselves are saved. If not, what joy is there?

amen

 

[GodsGrace]

amen - and Romans 8:16 says we can know from the Holy Spirit for sure

the problem many of us have dealt with is that we get lied to by the devil that we are not saved when we are

and then there are those like the ones the Lord said depart from ME i never knew you - did those people think they were saved when they weren't?

imo the best way to be sure and not lied too either way is to stay in close communion with God so that we have His peace and truth in our life

Jesus DID tell them WHY He told them to depart from Him.
They might have done things in His name, but they were lawless and did not obey Him.

This is a common mistake I hear from many....they believe it was those that were not born-again; but this is not what Jesus said...HE said that it was those that were lawless...did not obey His commands and follow the Moral law.

 

[Truthfrees]

Jesus DID tell them WHY He told them to depart from Him.
They might have done things in His name, but they were lawless and did not obey Him.

This is a common mistake I hear from many....they believe it was those that were not born-again; but this is not what Jesus said...HE said that it was those that were lawless...did not obey His commands and follow the Moral law.

except he said I NEVER knew you

 

[WalterandDebbie]

To say faith without works is dead is the same as saying faith without love is dead for the works we do unto the Lord is our labor of love for others as in Matthew 25:34-40. It's the same labor of love Christ has for us. Faith is action and if it has no fruit it is a false faith. James is not speaking about one who has faith, but one who claims to have faith. It's like giving lip service, but the heart is empty and void of God. Just because one claims to have faith doesn't mean they do, especially if there is no fruit to judge in them as that is how we judge one another, Matthew 7:15-23. We are saved by faith (Christ Jesus) through that of Gods grace (favor) as we can not earn it, but confess it.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Amen! I could not help but to think about the time of Abraham when he set out to obey the Lord on his journey with his son by his Faith in The LORD, as an example of Faith with his Works left his son alive, examples:https://www.bing.com/search?q=abrah...7f2a2489b81acfaa1b2ccf38e&cc=US&setlang=en-US

 

[GodsGrace]

except Jesus said I NEVER knew you - so that would indicate they were NEVER saved imo

if they were saved and then lost their salvation due to lawlessness/evildoing Jesus would have said I NO LONGER know you

Jesus didn't speak too much about being saved.
He never spoke about it the way we understand it today.
Jesus spoke about how we are to be born from above, or born again, in the sense that we are to be tuned in to God and live for Him.

He spoke about things we are to do, behaviors we are to follow. There are very few verses about being born again,but many about how to be in the Kingdom of God.

He was interested in our changing to become better and to do this under the guidance of God --- the Holy Spirit.
He had to leave so that the Holy Spirit could come and dwell with us individually....our helper to be close to God.

 

[Truthfrees]

Jesus didn't speak too much about being saved.
He never spoke about it the way we understand it today.
Jesus spoke about how we are to be born from above, or born again, in the sense that we are to be tuned in to God and live for Him.

He spoke about things we are to do, behaviors we are to follow. There are very few verses about being born again,but many about how to be in the Kingdom of God.

He was interested in our changing to become better and to do this under the guidance of God --- the Holy Spirit.
He had to leave so that the Holy Spirit could come and dwell with us individually....our helper to be close to God.

words eternal life and born again and born of God

 

[Truthfrees]

Jesus didn't speak too much about being saved.
He never spoke about it the way we understand it today.
Jesus spoke about how we are to be born from above, or born again, in the sense that we are to be tuned in to God and live for Him.

He spoke about things we are to do, behaviors we are to follow. There are very few verses about being born again,but many about how to be in the Kingdom of God.

He was interested in our changing to become better and to do this under the guidance of God --- the Holy Spirit.
He had to leave so that the Holy Spirit could come and dwell with us individually....our helper to be close to God.

ETERNAL LIFE IS PROBABLY THE BEST WORD TO SUBSTITUTE FOR SALVATION

 

[WIP]

Can't disagree with that.
But the question was:
Can we know we are saved?

We can believe we are saved but ultimately, we need to trust God.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

It's the Holy Spirit that empowers and strengthens us just like the disciples of Christ before they were sent out into the world to teach the good news of the Gospel of Christ. There is nothing of our self we could ever do to earn God's salvation as why would one have to work for that which is freely given.

Our proper Faith in Christ with works is alive.

 

[Truthfrees]

Our proper Faith in Christ with works is dead.

did you mean with or without?

i think you made a typo?