Female Officers in the Early Church

[jerry63935]

but not the arp.

what is arp?

 

[jasonc]

what is arp?

Association of reformed Presbyterians.they predate the country .they started in Scotland at the church of Scotland and migrated to America and formed in America as the arp.

 

[jasonc]

the qualification is to be able to preach . the church i pastor i dont have a deacon i would like one its tough getting people in.i have who could but he drives a truck is in every 2 weeks

You do there are different words for elders
Bishop ,diaconos ,and Presbyterias, espiscopas and church government.

In the Anglican traditions it's the bishop only ,in the Presbyterian it's the plural of elders ,and Baptist a congress.no central oversee .

the episcopal work much like the Anglican and have a Bishop they answer to.

.

 

[jerry63935]

reformed Presbyterians

i use work with a guy his family is reformed Presbyterians. me i am just a blood bought child of the king . i guess im suppose to be baptist . all though i pastor gen bapt also fill in at a methodist church i was raised in ..its hard find a pastor

 

[T. E. Smith]

The word for elder is ?

Presbyterias,the elders in my church are trained in Bible studies and to teach .one having been an elder for decades and never called to be a pastor .
Another a retired pastor who learned Koine Greek ,as my pastor does.i know one who speaks that and knows it in Greek ,Spanish and Korean and can recite it as such .

The problem for you is that logic argument .it can't be said that it's anyone who either male or female as the context isn't that at all and all letters by Paul before Gave context of males in the elder ,an elder can teach,correct and rebuke and have authority.paul didn't want women to have that level over men .yes there is that weaker argument of junias etc .


I don't see a diaconos ,espicapas or the Presbyterias as being women in that type of office you say for women .


It's a minor heresy but we'll I have been to both sides of this .I am a complemtarain for a reason . Those words are interchangeable in some context . I would have to ask my pastor on that .been a while .

Lexicons are great but we'll I wouldn't learn Spanish using that , especially a dead language . Koine Greek is taught to lawyers .it's used because of it's precise wording more and and option with Latin to learn law context .

As the archeological evidence I cited shows, that word was applied to women.

husband of one wife

I'm glad you've accepted the definition of the word tis. As for this, I've addressed this in an earlier reply to Jason.

The thing is though, that people who are not of a certain character would not even be considered for such a position in the church, whether they be male ot female wouldn't matter.

On the other hand, People who are of that character have already overshadowed any qualifying traits like being a man a nonsensical issue because these folks both male and female are led by the Holy Spirit and are led to such positions. The Holy Spirit seems to anoint whomever He wants to, lol!

So it's not like you can say, hey let's run this church with a totally secular system. You just can't do it, it's a church. The Holy Spirit is in charge, Or supposed to be.

I'm unsure why you bring up this subject? Have you heard of some women complaining that they can't be a deacon at some church or something?

I'm not sure the point of your post here.

Hey that was one girl, and she didn't understand what I meant. Just like you didn't.

I was married to my Wife for 26 years. How offensive does that suggest I was?

How long have you been married? Thought so. You've no room to talk young one.

So nobody married can be rude to women? Give me a break, old man. (If you call me young one, I will call you that)

 

[T. E. Smith]

I wasn’t paying attention to who was elected overseers before or how it ran. Besides, I’ve been in the church a lot longer than you have so my impression on the whole has more examples then yours.

No, I am referring to a time period long before any of our times. The archeological evidence I've cited demonstrates that women held offices in churches quite early on, and there's no indication that those early churches were undiscerning.

Servile work isn't in the Lord.

Yes their gifts in the body that are less glorious but we'll Jesus said if you seek to the greatest you will be the least .

I have not asked for the deacon office but it may be thrust upon me . I do what I can because it is the least I can do .

A pastor can't mow the yard,visit the sick ,teach and preach and feed the poor and fix toilets and tend to widow's and widowers .

No matter how small it is or large or gifted .there is always a need for more and you aren't all that .

To use the word menial or servile is insulting.yes character counts .

Do you know what the word pastor means? Shepherd. Think "pasture." And shepherding definitely includes all those tasks you've mentioned, all those tasks that you've declared elders unable to do. Do you know that the most common term for believers in the NT is "slave"? How then can you condemn servile work as not in the Lord?

imo the office of the deacon should be a calling not picked

Where does the Bible say that?

 

[jerry63935]

No, I am referring to a time period long before any of our times. The archeological evidence I've cited demonstrates that women held offices in churches quite early on, and there's no indication that those early churches were undiscerning.

Do you know what the word pastor means? Shepherd. Think "pasture." And shepherding definitely includes all those tasks you've mentioned, all those tasks that you've declared elders unable to do.

Where does the Bible say that?

say what ? yes i am well aware of what the Bible says your barking up the wrong tree or just confused

 

[T. E. Smith]

say what ? yes i am well aware of what the Bible says your barking up the wrong tree or just confused

Then you should be able to easily cite for me where it says that the office of deacon is a calling, not picked. Besides, how is that relevant? What if a woman is called?

 

[jerry63935]

I'm glad you've accepted the definition of the word tis.

your definably barking up the wrong tree i have accepted nothing the man is head of the household yes men should be in charge of certain positions.. that does not make the woman the sole or 2nd class .he put the responsibility on the man. but to clarify i accepted nothing

 

[T. E. Smith]

your definably barking up the wrong tree i have accepted nothing the man is head of the household yes men should be in charge of certain positions.. that does not make the woman the sole or 2nd class .he put the responsibility on the man. but to clarify i accepted nothing

Well, you dropped the verse you had been using as support. You keep repeating that the man is head but that this does not push women down. I've heard it before.

 

[jerry63935]

the office of deacon is a calling

how old are you and how much experience in the Church do you have and do you understand what IMO means ?

 

[jasonc]

No, I am referring to a time period long before any of our times. The archeological evidence I've cited demonstrates that women held offices in churches quite early on, and there's no indication that those early churches were undiscerning.

Do you know what the word pastor means? Shepherd. Think "pasture." And shepherding definitely includes all those tasks you've mentioned, all those tasks that you've declared elders unable to do. Do you know that the most common term for believers in the NT is "slave"? How then can you condemn servile work as not in the Lord?

Where does the Bible say that?

Because that is the context you used in saying women shouldn't be used for menial,janitorial work or house maintainance
I guess a pastor should be able and certified in

R134 a charging of ac ,house hold and ,Puron and electrical and up to building and applicable codes and preaching .

I'm sure there are pastors who can but delegate that to others as they should .

 

[jerry63935]

Well, you dropped the verse you had been using as support. You keep repeating that the man is head but that this does not push women down. I've heard it before.

okkkkkkkkkkk hold up i am not going back in forth with you.. have you ever been in leadership of the church ? i have made my points .

You keep repeating that the man is head but that this does not push women down. I've heard it before.

i am being respectful to the women .you have a lot to learn besides greek

 

[jasonc]

Because that is the context you used in saying women shouldn't be used for menial,janitorial work or house maintainance
I guess a pastor should be able and certified in

R134 a charging of ac ,house hold and ,Puron and electrical and up to building and applicable codes and preaching .

I'm sure there are pastors who can but delegate that to others as they should .

A retired plant maintenance officer and elder who sings and teaches at over 65 .he replumbed the kitchen ,redid the tile floors ,installed all what code allowed ,below 120 and the church funded the materials not his time .
220 was and must be under code done by a certified electrician .

Or should a pastor do all that ?

It takes years to get good at ac,and electrical and plumbing work . Not all have that ability but sometimes a called man simply does .

I bet many churches have men who work in those fields and don't care .

 

[jasonc]

And he also with others installed a side walk .
Yet only the pastor should do that ?
And I wonder why they walk away .yes many pastors have to buy this takes away from what he is trained and called to do .

First and foremost,his wife if married ,second his flocks needs of grieving time and counseling .

I have yet as my job takes me to commercial and residential construction and demolition.not many women in that field .

I would notice .I have seen one,once and that was masonry.hard to miss her slinging mortar

 

[jasonc]

Women in my church ,one built using wood work a large cross with the Names of God on it and installed it .
They led the idea of a Christian counseling session on grief and depression and coordinating it so well the male elders were amazed and loved that they sensed as they often do that need in our church .

So please a complitarian church done right doesn't put women under the feet of men.

If an elder passed out and the pa,a lady ,a pastors wife ,barks out I need this and do that ,those uneducated in medicine do well to listen to her .we have three or more nurses who have rendered first aid as needed .

Male nurses exist just none in my church to my knowledge. I wouldn't challenge a pa or cna,lpn ,RN on first aid despite my training on it to include tourniquet and iv administration. They did it full time .I have impressed an EMT with a hand made brace using an paint stick and karate belt and elevating my wife's leg . circulation wasn't cut off.my grandson as I showed him how to make one got the materials and I cut the belt .my wife injured her knee and I thought it might have been broke .

 

[T. E. Smith]

how old are you and how much experience in the Church do you have and do you understand what IMO means ?

17, been in the church my whole life going to church nearly every week, and it means in my opinion.

 

[T. E. Smith]

i am being respectful to the women .you have a lot to learn besides greek

Sure, man.

 

[T. E. Smith]

A retired plant maintenance officer and elder who sings and teaches at over 65 .he replumbed the kitchen ,redid the tile floors ,installed all what code allowed ,below 120 and the church funded the materials not his time .
220 was and must be under code done by a certified electrician .

Or should a pastor do all that ?

It takes years to get good at ac,and electrical and plumbing work . Not all have that ability but sometimes a called man simply does .

I bet many churches have men who work in those fields and don't care .

He can do some of it if he is qualified.

 

[jasonc]

He can do some of it if he is qualified.

yet he shouldnt have to, that is the point of having deacons and elders. if the pastor cant there is a person who can. its not always possible. but all too many times many in the church simply wont lift a finger to help.

the pastor should focus on the spiritual needs and not the physical needs. this is why in acts the apostles were saying it is not for us to serve at tables. appoint men who have charachter to serve the widows.

it had nothing to do with them being too good to serve only that it took time away from proper prayer and fasting and seeking God. i wouldnt call it a sin if a pastor had to but only that he shouldnt. we expect too much from the pastors.