Female Officers in the Early Church

[T. E. Smith]

yet he shouldnt have to, that is the point of having deacons and elders. if the pastor cant there is a person who can. its not always possible. but all too many times many in the church simply wont lift a finger to help.

the pastor should focus on the spiritual needs and not the physical needs. this is why in acts the apostles were saying it is not for us to serve at tables. appoint men who have charachter to serve the widows.

it had nothing to do with them being too good to serve only that it took time away from proper prayer and fasting and seeking God. i wouldnt call it a sin if a pastor had to but only that he shouldnt. we expect too much from the pastors.

Pastor = elder.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, I am referring to a time period long before any of our times. The archeological evidence I've cited demonstrates that women held offices in churches quite early on, and there's no indication that those early churches were undiscerning.

How would you measure this last statement? can you measure it today? You attend church but are not a believer as you freely admit to us. Has any leader in your church discerned this?

Do you know what the word pastor means? Shepherd. Think "pasture." And shepherding definitely includes all those tasks you've mentioned, all those tasks that you've declared elders unable to do. Do you know that the most common term for believers in the NT is "slave"? How then can you condemn servile work as not in the Lord?

Read in Acts how the apostles chose men to serve tables? Do you know that section? Do you know the qualities Paul recommends an elder have?

 

[T. E. Smith]

How would you measure this last statement? can you measure it today? You attend church but are not a believer as you freely admit to us. Has any leader in your church discerned this?

Read in Acts how the apostles chose men to serve tables? Do you know that section? Do you know the qualities Paul recommends an elder have?

Sure, an easy way to measure it is if the appointed elders actually do their job correctly. As for how we can measure church discernment in, say, the fourth century, we really can't.
Of course I know those sections. The relation between the appointment in Acts and pseudo-Paul's qualifications for elders are not so clear, however.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sure, an easy way to measure it is if the appointed elders actually do their job correctly.

You’re referring to today now? I suppose if not much is asked, it’s hard to miss doing it correctly.

As for how we can measure church discernment in, say, the fourth century, we really can't.
Of course I know those sections. The relation between the appointment in Acts and pseudo-Paul's qualifications for elders are not so clear, however.

Only you render them “pseudo” but you render most of scripture that way, right? Or are there parts you accept as genuine truth?

 

[T. E. Smith]

You’re referring to today now? I suppose if not much is asked, it’s hard to miss doing it correctly.

Only you render them “pseudo” but you render most of scripture that way, right? Or are there parts you accept as genuine truth?

Nah, I'm just referring to the scholarly consensus that Paul did not write the pastorals. I do not refer to Romans' author as "pseudo-Paul."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Nah, I'm just referring to the scholarly consensus that Paul did not write the pastorals. I do not refer to Romans' author as "pseudo-Paul."

It’s not a scholarly consensus. You just prefer that adjective. Peter wrote about Paul’s letters so they were long ago accepted.

 

[Edward]

when she gets gets saved then we can continue...until then case closed

Are you out of your mind? (J/K). I've never seen such a nice place to sow seeds at before.

??

 

[for_his_glory]

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Micah 6:4 Miriam was one third of Israels leadership team

Judges 4-5 Deborah was used of God as a chief prophet and judge over Israel for four decades

Joshua 2; Matthew 1:5 God used a prostitute in Jericho Rahab and grafted her into the lineage of Christ.

Matthew 1:5 God redeemed a foreign widow named Ruth and birthed King David through her offspring

The book of Esther God made Esther a queen just in time to save all of Israel

2 Chronicles 34:21-33 God used Huldah the prophetess to instruct the king

It was Greek philosophers like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and Hesiod that infiltrated Jewish religious tradition and culture perspective on women as the Rabbis didn't get their ideas about women from God, but from these Greek philosophers.

Homer portrayed women as objects, war prizes, pawns and possessions, "the cause of all conflict and suffering in the world. Hammurabi discusses the legal rights of women in terms of chattel, similar to slaves. Hesiod claimed that woman was created as man's eternal curse. These Hellenized thinkers had a rather low opinion of women and because of them every major western society has marginalized women since. Scripture on the other hand, as I have shown here in a few scriptures and Paul adds many more in the NT like Priscilla (Acts 18:26); Euodia and Syntyche (Philippians 4:2-3); Junia (Romans 16:7); that women are just as important as men are in God's ministry.

Genesis 1:28 God gave both the man and the woman to rule over His creation. Genesis 2:20-24 shows how God created woman from the rib of Adam and places her in the garden as his equal as she is called his helper as she is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh.

For more on this go to www.biblestudytools/ Does Scripture Oppress or Liberate Women

 

[jerry63935]

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

still as paul wrote man is to be the leader 1This is a true saying, {If a man }desire the office of a bishop, {he} desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, "the husband" of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well "his" own house, having "his" children in subjection with all gravity;


this is solo scripture and same goes for the office of the deacon not my words But God word

 

[T. E. Smith]

still as paul wrote man is to be the leader 1This is a true saying, {If a man }desire the office of a bishop, {he} desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, "the husband" of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well "his" own house, having "his" children in subjection with all gravity;


this is solo scripture and same goes for the office of the deacon not my words But God word

Psalm 1 uses masculine pronouns too. Does that mean it only applies for men?

 

[jerry63935]

Two ad hominem attacks: religious preference, and age. If at this point, all you have to defend yourself is the fact that you're 61, then I agree, this conversation is definitely over.

 

[jasonc]

God not man raised up persons to be called.no one who is called just decides to be a pastor .

Most run from it and God breaks their will.my pastor hardly a pentacostal has said he was called into it and impressed hard by the Spirit to do it.

It's something only God can do.
You are verified by others who have been called to be one and ordained by them to be one .

All eyes on you.no matter what mistake or sin you do .you get judged harshly.you miss out with family to minister and often aren't appreciated as members simply leave for petty excuses..you take on too much because no one in church seems to care enough . You now yards,you repair the church ,you teach too many classes,even sing in the worship team.despite talented persons who can assist .

I have seen this .I decided because God showed me mercy to help where I can.its never enough.those who are called,it's impressed into them and wired into them and it comes in trials .

Others simply verify it using prayer and scripture and observation.how you act in church ,reports good or bad on how you deal with things .

 

[for_his_glory]

still as paul wrote man is to be the leader 1This is a true saying, {If a man }desire the office of a bishop, {he} desireth a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, "the husband" of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that ruleth well "his" own house, having "his" children in subjection with all gravity;


this is solo scripture and same goes for the office of the deacon not my words But God word

Just showing how God uses women in His ministry. Men deny them, but God approves of them. Scripture is very masculine, but yet both man and woman.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them" (Genesis 1:27).

Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" (Genesis 5:2).

It is interesting to note that God called both male and female, "Adam" in the day they were created. Adam means "man." Adam and Eve were created with God-ordained differences from each other, but together they made a full "man," or a complete picture of God Himself. There was perfection in their union. Their differences were not a source of discord or inequality, but a beautiful compliment to each other. Together, God gave them the task of overseeing His creation.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman.

 

[Edward]

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28).

This was before the fall. I never really noticed that before. I guess I always thought that them coming together as one flesh started happening after the fall. Like it was the back up plan in case they did fall.

I bet Eve sure was beautiful. Hand made and crafted by the very hand of God.

 

[Edward]

Notice that God gave the above commission to them both. There is no hint that there was anything but equal authority between man and woman.

Right. Until after the fall.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have deleted several post as this is not about attacking the character of another member. Anymore post like these and you will be banned from the thread.

 

[for_his_glory]

Right. Until after the fall.

When Eve ate the forbidden fruit and enticed Adam to sin with her, one of the consequences for women was the loss of equality with men, as men were to rule over women, instead of men and women ruling together. She would now be "ruled by her husband." However, when Jesus came as sinless Man and died as the Messiah on the cross for us, all things were restored positionally. In actuality, the restoration of man (men and women) began to take place at that very moment.

Once we are born into the kingdom of God, we become new creatures in Christ. In the Spirit, we find there is "neither male nor female," just as there are neither race distinctions nor class separations. The Lord looks on the hearts of His new creatures and therefore does not discriminate when He offers His love and privileges. Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

Galatians 3:28: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

 

[jerry63935]

ust showing how God uses women in His ministry. Men deny them

had you read my postsssssssss i never denied women in ministry i pointed out God placed man as the head head of the home and head of the ministry . women have a vital role . i realize that some men wear the skirt in the family while the woman wears the pants . i also know there there are women pastors . i dont argue the point . come judgement day that work will either stand or burn up.

Women are not excluded from any of God's promises nor callings merely because of their sex.

you might want read what paul wrote he never wrote if any women desire the office . we have those who take it literally the women is be silent in the Church/ in my Church the woman can speak and do.

 

[for_his_glory]

had you read my postsssssssss i never denied women in ministry i pointed out God placed man as the head head of the home and head of the ministry . women have a vital role . i realize that some men wear the skirt in the family while the woman wears the pants . i also know there there are women pastors . i dont argue the point . come judgement day that work will either stand or burn up.



you might want read what paul wrote he never wrote if any women desire the office . we have those who take it literally the women is be silent in the Church/ in my Church the woman can speak and do.

Where did I say that you denied women in the ministry. I'm not going to have an argument with you again about what Paul meant about women being quiet in the church as it will not go well.

 

[jerry63935]

I'm not going to have an argument with you again about what Paul meant about women being quiet in the church as it will not go well.

just what does that mean it will not go well? for the record there was no argument amazing how that word comes in when discussion is not agreed on argument again ? never was a first one unless your calling the shots of discussion