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Growth Forgiveness, Justice, or Revenge?

jeff77 said:
I don't see how people can use the American justice system to get revenge for someone that committed something like rape or murder. If someone murders they are automatically going to be charged by the state whether the family of the victim wants them to face charges or lesser sentence or not. If someone does you harm you may feel like giving them a second chance or something and face a lesser sentence but what if they did harm to someone else after they got out which could have been prevented if they would have received the full sentence. I know it's just a general example.
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I have seen it many times. The worst use of the justice system ever was a guy that I know. When he was 14 his mother decided she didn't want to take care of him any more. He had been repeatedly sexually molested by an uncle. This uncle had molested about 15 children including foster children. He had also encouraged the kids to have sex with each other. When my friend was 14 years old he turned him into the police for molesting his 9 year old sister. I am not sure why the police didn't investigate further, but the adults in this situation somehow convinced them that my friend was the only one that molested anyone. He went to prison as and adult for eight years. The mother and uncle got off completely free. They ended up leaving the country because they weren't American citizens. My friend is now in his 40's and suffers from suicidal tendencies constantly. He also has issues with his sexuality. The justice system is ran by flawed people and they mess up all the time, but this was a screw up that really ruined someone for life.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
I have seen it many times. The worst use of the justice system ever was a guy that I know. When he was 14 his mother decided she didn't want to take care of him any more. He had been repeatedly sexually molested by an uncle. This uncle had molested about 15 children including foster children. He had also encouraged the kids to have sex with each other. When my friend was 14 years old he turned him into the police for molesting his 9 year old sister. I am not sure why the police didn't investigate further, but the adults in this situation somehow convinced them that my friend was the only one that molested anyone. He went to prison as and adult for eight years. The mother and uncle got off completely free. They ended up leaving the country because they weren't American citizens. My friend is now in his 40's and suffers from suicidal tendencies constantly. He also has issues with his sexuality. The justice system is ran by flawed people and they mess up all the time, but this was a screw up that really ruined someone for life.
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Im sorry to hear about your friend and that is a very sad story. I don't think that is the norm though?
 
kiwidan said:
and now i have 5 cars parked on my property i dont even know who they are. The peaceful barron house all year round, next door, is now suddeenly a party house. But its all good, i dont mind people parking on my property but to ask first is respectful, but im happy to share I will humble myself and not say a word. As long as they dont cause trouble its all good. I hope they all have a good time. I want everyone to have a good time, but there is a thing called respect. Its a shame we can all or have lost it at times. I do sometimes i must admit. If i said i did not i would be a hypocrite.

I go the city and my car gets towed and i have to pay $200 to get my personal possesion back and now different situation people are parked on my property without my authority. But i will humble myself as they are doing no wrong just trying to have a good time over there holidays. Its all good.
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I thought there was a lot of space in New Zealand! :)

(Especially in South Island! ...)

But ppl who leave trash are indeed a nuisance; I agree!

Blessings.
 
kiwidan said:
At the moment im feeling more on Justice.

I live in a small community and we have a local fishing dock. Its like my second home. I fish there nearly everyday. Its my excape from all the anxietys life throws at me. But people keep comming out and burning down the rubbish bin every week and sometimes graffiti. And people come out and leave all there rubbish there. Now its holiday season i cant even get a space so many outsiders from the city are on holiday and have overtaken my personal space and it is there for everyone to use i know that, but they litter all there rubbish on the ocean i respect, i even seen someone the other day keep undersize fish and i tried to get hold of authoritys but to no luck.

Burning rubbish bins for fun, leaving rubbish on the dock and rubbish all over the place and in the ocean, taking all the space, keeping undersize illegal fish, graffiti. Its disgusting. No respect and selfish. Then they leave and go home.

Some people just have no respect. I release fish for the future and stick to the rules and have respect for the foreshore and ocean. Some people just dont care. Im going to keep an eye out and i hope next time i can get hold of authoritys and they come out and seize all there gear. Fishing rods, vehicle, everything and make them walk back to the city and they never get there gear or vehicle back either. They can do that here.

My mate put a net out the other day. All year is fine no problem then the other day he went to get his catch and someone had poached all his fish. Its the season where some people think whats yours is there's.
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I agree with you, you need justice. There is little excuse for people behaving badly, whether they are civilians or cops. God bless you for your patience.
 
jeff77 said:
Im sorry to hear about your friend and that is a very sad story. I don't think that is the norm though?
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I am not trying to say that we don't need authorities, laws, or prisons, but I am trying to point out that there is a dark side the prison system. In America we have for profit, private prisons. All for profit organizations get their money by having a commodity to sell. In the prisons, it is people. Private prisons bid to the government to house people at the lowest cost. This leads to many abuses by the system. We have gotten away from reform and restoration and now we just warehouse people for profit. Private prisons are about the worst idea the justice system has had. Many people get caught up in this system that are either innocent or they have done stupid things that they could be reformed and sent back out to be a useful member of society. This probably won't go away soon because the prison lobby is one of the strongest ones in America. As Christians we should be aware of what is going on and not just black and white everything. The system isn't all good and the prisoners aren't all bad. There are a lot a gray areas.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
I am not trying to say that we don't need authorities, laws, or prisons, but I am trying to point out that there is a dark side the prison system. In America we have for profit, private prisons. All for profit organizations get their money by having a commodity to sell. In the prisons, it is people. Private prisons bid to the government to house people at the lowest cost. This leads to many abuses by the system. We have gotten away from reform and restoration and now we just warehouse people for profit. Private prisons are about the worst idea the justice system has had. Many people get caught up in this system that are either innocent or they have done stupid things that they could be reformed and sent back out to be a useful member of society. This probably won't go away soon because the prison lobby is one of the strongest ones in America. As Christians we should be aware of what is going on and not just black and white everything. The system isn't all good and the prisoners aren't all bad. There are a lot a gray areas.
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it not just the private prisons. the state makes money off their labor. but if its a minor crime they don't stay in prison but jail. I have the seen the opposite here. a neighbor who sells drugs, her body. gets caught. longest sentence 90 days. she has been charged and convicted of the same thing all the time. so what is the point of calling the cops with her? oh if you do her bf may do bodily harm.
 
kiwidan said:
lol. The tractor and trailor just come back and decided to block the entry down the bottom. Everyone is welcome. Come, feel free to just park all over my place


.
snm350.jpg
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call the cops after you tell them to move and they don't.
 
kiwidan said:
I would never do that because i have a heart. I just think some people should have more respect. They are not doing any harm so why would i bother causing trouble for no reason because people have no respect for me i should have none back. I will humble myself. Suppose its just the way of some people live. All for themselves and dont care. I could get them all towed if i wanted but i would never do such a thing because even they have no respect i should humble myself.
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so you don't mind ruts and devaluing of your property? I do turns arounds on city property and I work for that city and I hate doing that. I can already see my marks on the grass. here if I park on the grass a lot, it will die. I have places on my yard that haven't come back even after months of me not parking there.
 
What's the point in sending people to prison if they have to rehabilitate themselves? That's 10s of thousands of dollars per year spent on punishment that could be spent on more effective programs. I'm sure that it feels logical and righteous to say "they need to pick themselves up by their boot straps!," but its ridiculous, really. Why not spend that money on programs that will reduce recidivism and improve society?
 
Christ_empowered said:
What's the point in sending people to prison if they have to rehabilitate themselves? That's 10s of thousands of dollars per year spent on punishment that could be spent on more effective programs. I'm sure that it feels logical and righteous to say "they need to pick themselves up by their boot straps!," but its ridiculous, really. Why not spend that money on programs that will reduce recidivism and improve society?
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while I agree with the premise that Christ based programs are the most effective, we cant force a man or woman under the law to go to these. the government cant take sides on the cultural war. it must remain neutral. so if a muslim/jew or what not wants to do the same they must be allowed to do so.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
I am not trying to say that we don't need authorities, laws, or prisons, but I am trying to point out that there is a dark side the prison system. In America we have for profit, private prisons. All for profit organizations get their money by having a commodity to sell. In the prisons, it is people. Private prisons bid to the government to house people at the lowest cost. This leads to many abuses by the system. We have gotten away from reform and restoration and now we just warehouse people for profit. Private prisons are about the worst idea the justice system has had. Many people get caught up in this system that are either innocent or they have done stupid things that they could be reformed and sent back out to be a useful member of society. This probably won't go away soon because the prison lobby is one of the strongest ones in America. As Christians we should be aware of what is going on and not just black and white everything. The system isn't all good and the prisoners aren't all bad. There are a lot a gray areas.
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I agree with you Sandy, privately owned, for profit prison system was a terrible idea. Why release someone that should be released for good behavior, etc. when they are making money off them? I can't believe this system is cheater for the taxpayer either. It took a genius to turn this over to corp., too.
 
kiwidan said:
They can damage the material but they can never damage my faith. I got the Lord. Im just passing through. What else do i need?
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I understand that but well, I know that if you were to live in some gated communites that wouldn't be allowed. here we have that too.i live too close to the road. that diesel noise of a semi would keep me up.
 
Deborah13 said:
I agree with you Sandy, privately owned, for profit prison system was a terrible idea. Why release someone that should be released for good behavior, etc. when they are making money off them? I can't believe this system is cheater for the taxpayer either. It took a genius to turn this over to corp., too.
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florida state has the third largest prison system in the world. if I remember to ask my soldiers who work for that. I will post the info on the private/state run correction facilities. its not cheap to jail a person.
 
jasoncran said:
florida state has the third largest prison system in the world. if I remember to ask my soldiers who work for that. I will post the info on the private/state run correction facilities. its not cheap to jail a person.
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It costs something like $35,000 a year to house one prisoner. No, it isn't cheap. For true prison reform we need Christ, not only in the hearts of the prisoners, but in the hearts of the guards and authorities also.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
It costs something like $35,000 a year to house one prisoner. No, it isn't cheap. For true prison reform we need Christ, not only in the hearts of the prisoners, but in the hearts of the guards and authorities also.
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the function of the guards isn't to be ministry but to guard. if I was a doing this a correction officer then I would have to not to allow any false faiths to enter the facility. I cant do that.
 
Sandy Zalecki said:
It costs something like $35,000 a year to house one prisoner. No, it isn't cheap. For true prison reform we need Christ, not only in the hearts of the prisoners, but in the hearts of the guards and authorities also.
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I agree with you, in that only the Lord can change a person's heart and thus their life.

But you can only lead a horse to water, you can't make them drink.
Many prisons have clergy and access to books and Christian television and even the internet access for some prisoners.

I think it would be very difficult to be a Christian guard. One has to deal with extremely violate and sometimes mentally unstable people. Sometimes this necessitates the use of violate responses from the guards and to be able to think like the prisoners or you could easily end up dead. Seems like it would be a job that one could only do for a few years before the stress would be too much.
 
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