Free at last..

[WIP]

That's a good point, TRUTH. We are complacent for sure. Too often we are weekend warriors or more accurately, one or two hour warriors. We treat our membership in the church like a club and if we pay our dues (give to the collection plate) we have done enough and ignore our purpose until the next meeting. It is sad.

 

[ejected]

Wip, that is an excellent question. I submit, that if we'd honor God by striving to do a fellowship His way, He would show up and endorse our honest efforts. Be like learning to ride a bike. It will take some honest assessment and , if I may say so, some honest repenting for not searching Him out on the issue of His headship, His desire to be the One in control of our meetings.
Almost like throwing a birthday party for someone we love but he never shows up. We forgot to invite him.

 

[ezra]

What are the duties of a Pastor? From what I read in the bible a Pastor is to do 2 things. Study and teach bible doctrine.

I do not see anywhere where the Pastor is to set up countless ministries,visiting the poor,visiting hospitals,lining up coffee for the flock,getting fundraisers set up,getting a live band lined up.......the list goes on.

A pastor should be feeding His Flock 5 or 6 times a week(probably every day), not once a week because He does not have time to study and teach.

so are you a pastor or ever been one ? try working full time and pastor how do you feed your flock 5-6 times a week ? with church only 3 times a week,, you do good getting them there on sunday...

 

[ejected]

There are pastors, plural. Some teach, some don't. All body parts are to work their ministries. No place in scripture does it endorse the one man do it all while the rest pay him for services while they watch football.

 

[josefnospam]

The pastor of a church has one main Goal. To faithly preach the word of God. Not be a counsoler, or a community organizer. Preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. Their are others to go about the dutys of the assembilies. There are others to clean the building property and do the things nessacary to be sure things are done properly. A faithfull preacher is called to PREACH. The members of the assemblely should all support and help as they can.
All should be done in brotherly love and unity with Jesus Christ as the focus of all who come. The preacher should not tell others how to live, what to do and not do. This is commen in so many churches. When one hears the word he will be convicted to do whats right. If not he will leave. The preacher should preach God faithly as God allows him to do so. All things done properly and in order for it is the assemble of the saints gathered to worship God and give thanks for what he has done for us. There is no need for entertainment, rock bands, and such. Maybe a little special music to give praise to God ,not to entertain the people.

 

[ejected]

Jose. You said the pastors job is to preach. Book, chapter and verse please.

 

[ejected]

Edward, check Ephesians 4:15 and 16. Talks about the whole body edifying itself in love. Every joint supplies. Effectual working in the measure of EVERY PART. Not just one, a pastor. Vs.13:we cannot come into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ without this every member participation as opposed to little silent tweety birds sitting in the pews...paying an elected team to do what they r called to do...minister one to another. There r 58 one to another scriptures.

 

[reba]

Yes edifying each other ... some pastors are the 'other' .

We don't all have the same 'job' we are not all hands nor are we all feet... I make great cookies so every one should make the same cookies? nope Some one needs to make soup.... some one the bread, all are of equal importance just different.

IF we are all flour we could not be anything but a pile of flour, flour on its own does not taste good...add some sugar , brown sugar, cinnamon , nutmeg , baking powder soda , eggs, oatmeal, walnuts some heat and some timing and that pile of flour has some flavor ... all are important to the final product. Forgot the vanilla

Another group might be an angle food cake.... OR minestrone soup that is a lot of different folks and they go with garlic bread and that brings us back to flour


rambled enough

 

[WIP]

Edward, check Ephesians 4:15 and 16. Talks about the whole body edifying itself in love. Every joint supplies. Effectual working in the measure of EVERY PART. Not just one, a pastor. Vs.13:we cannot come into the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ without this every member participation as opposed to little silent tweety birds sitting in the pews...paying an elected team to do what they r called to do...minister one to another. There r 58 one to another scriptures.

Do you experience today what you describe? If so, would you be willing to share where and when? Also, if one such as I was to attend, would I be required to participate or could I just be as one of those tweety birds?

It might sound like it but I'm not being sarcastic here. I am truly interested in your answers.

Thanks.

 

[ejected]

The beauty of an organic gathering that we uphold, is that there is no particular scheduling. In fact we get together about every other day, usually in the morning hours. Works best for us. We come together in full faith that He will speak to us by His Spirit......and He does. One of the functions mentioned in 1Cor.12 and14 is prophecy. All this is is when the anointing of the Spirit overtakes a member and they bring forth a fresh word of The Lord. It always lines up with the word.
Sometimes His presence is so strong tears begin to flow.
This is what I have been discussing all along. Jesus wants His rightful place back as Head of His body.
What you need to do my friend is give the n.t. model for an assembly a real chance. This will take some study and research on the subject. Be open to His leading and direction on this. He so longs to fellowship with His beloved children but His hands have been tied by traditions of men, hiearchy control, and religious form that the word does not back.
The body should not be an organization patterned after the worlds type of organization, but an alive organic organism full of the life of God.
If you r serious with God about finding that n.t. paradigm for a gathering, He will be serious with you.
Try inviting some of the believers you know to a study concerning this. But remember, if no one else is interested, it only takes 2 to have fellowship, first century style. 'Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My Name, I Am in their midst'.
The first believers gathered together, not to worship God souly, but to edify one another. Worship becomes a spontaneous by product.
Again, if you are serious about discovering the first century mode of fellowship, I recommend Frank Viola's books. Also www.truthforfree.com is loaded with studies on this most major subject. Hit the trail my friend. Thousands of believers are leaving the organized church in droves seeking a more vibrant and alive experience with other believers and with The Lord. A closer walk with the King of all glory. Join us. A new exodus is going on.

 

[Free]

The beauty of an organic gathering that we uphold, is that there is no particular scheduling. In fact we get together about every other day, usually in the morning hours. Works best for us. We come together in full faith that He will speak to us by His Spirit......and He does. One of the functions mentioned in 1Cor.12 and14 is prophecy. All this is is when the anointing of the Spirit overtakes a member and they bring forth a fresh word of The Lord. It always lines up with the word.
Sometimes His presence is so strong tears begin to flow.
This is what I have been discussing all along. Jesus wants His rightful place back as Head of His body.
What you need to do my friend is give the n.t. model for an assembly a real chance. This will take some study and research on the subject. Be open to His leading and direction on this. He so longs to fellowship with His beloved children but His hands have been tied by traditions of men, hiearchy control, and religious form that the word does not back.
The body should not be an organization patterned after the worlds type of organization, but an alive organic organism full of the life of God.
If you r serious with God about finding that n.t. paradigm for a gathering, He will be serious with you.
Try inviting some of the believers you know to a study concerning this. But remember, if no one else is interested, it only takes 2 to have fellowship, first century style. 'Where 2 or 3 are gathered in My Name, I Am in their midst'.
The first believers gathered together, not to worship God souly, but to edify one another. Worship becomes a spontaneous by product.
Again, if you are serious about discovering the first century mode of fellowship, I recommend Frank Viola's books. Also www.truthforfree.com is loaded with studies on this most major subject. Hit the trail my friend. Thousands of believers are leaving the organized church in droves seeking a more vibrant and alive experience with other believers and with The Lord. A closer walk with the King of all glory. Join us. A new exodus is going on.

And yet, as I have stated more than once, the problems with such a system are not only at least as bad, they are likely much worse.

 

[jasoncran]

a bunch of people like me in the church. that is scary. realllllllll scary.i would be best used as an expositor in the bible ihmo but others may and cant do this.

 

[jasoncran]

Yes edifying each other ... some pastors are the 'other' .

We don't all have the same 'job' we are not all hands nor are we all feet... I make great cookies so every one should make the same cookies? nope Some one needs to make soup.... some one the bread, all are of equal importance just different.

IF we are all flour we could not be anything but a pile of flour, flour on its own does not taste good...add some sugar , brown sugar, cinnamon , nutmeg , baking powder soda , eggs, oatmeal, walnuts some heat and some timing and that pile of flour has some flavor ... all are important to the final product. Forgot the vanilla

Another group might be an angle food cake.... OR minestrone soup that is a lot of different folks and they go with garlic bread and that brings us back to flour


rambled enough

angle food cake? would that be obtuse or acute food cake?


You of all people [MENTION=21030]Jason[/MENTION] ? YOU?

 

[ejected]

Try green tomato pie. I know, I know, I know. Sounds terrible. It's heaven! Google recipe........what in the world r we talking about?.

 

[Ryan]

[MENTION=96739]Withheld[/MENTION] we started a home group in the last 3 months to celebrate the Shabbat after problems with the leadership at our previous congregation. Typical deal was man putting themselves at the head of the church instead of Christ. Home groups has a way more intimate and personal touch then the rigidity of a typical church service. We are fortunate to have 6 people who play varying instruments, so we have a long praise and worship, and after that is whatever the Lord leads us to do. Share, read, pray, edify each other, and the Holy Spirit has blessed us with words of prophecy for one another. Right after we started our group, I randomly met someone who has done the same thing in their town as well.

IMHO the traditional church structure is to lift up and put on a pedestal the pastor and their personality, yet forgetting the person setting up the sound equipment, getting the kitchen ready, cleaning toilets, etc, and forgetting each serve a separate, yet equally important role and task. It was almost nauseous how people lifted up the Rabbi (we were attending a Messianic Jewish congregation) over other members of the body. If we do nothing but meet in other people's houses till the kingdom comes, that is completely fine with me. I am glad to hear though there are churches that have humble pastors and ministers and do not place themselves at the head of the church, but to find a ministry like that seems to be harder to find nowadays. Just my perspective.

 

[jasoncran]

any thing done by man can become corrupted or go astray.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

IMHO the traditional church structure is to lift up and put on a pedestal the pastor and their personality, yet forgetting the person setting up the sound equipment, getting the kitchen ready, cleaning toilets, etc, and forgetting each serve a separate, yet equally important role and task. It was almost nauseous how people lifted up the Rabbi (we were attending a Messianic Jewish congregation) over other members of the body.

When I read this I thought of this:

"17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” " (1 Timothy 5:17-18 NASB)

But you seem to be saying it's wrong for the church to honor parts of the body differently(?)

Now I don't know you from Adam, so I'm not accusing you, but did you know that it can be pride in us that won't allow another person to be exalted? I think that's an example of 'projection'. The pride of exaltation we are sure we see in another is actually in us. This, IMO, is the primary source of faultfinding.

Having worked in difficult work situation for many years I noticed the boss usually was picked to pieces simply because he enjoyed rights and privileges that came with the added responsibilities he had that those who picked him to pieces wish they had for themselves. It comes out as 'you're not worthy of the honor you enjoy (but surely I am worthy of)'. It's nothing more than pride and envy disguised in critical faultfinding.

Just throwing it out there for us to digest. Not judging anybody. How can I do that. I don't know anybody personally in this forum.

But anyway, the scriptures show us their is indeed some differentiation between body parts not only allowed, but commanded.

 

[Elijah674]

Just for a large number of such ones, see Numbers 16:2-3 & check it out!?

[2] And they rose up before Moses, with certain of the children of Israel, two hundred and fifty princes of the assembly, famous in the congregation, men of renown:
[3] And they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron, and said unto them, Ye take too much upon you, seeing all the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the LORD is among them: wherefore then lift ye up yourselves above the congregation of the LORD?

--Elijah

 

[Ryan]

IMHO the traditional church structure is to lift up and put on a pedestal the pastor and their personality, yet forgetting the person setting up the sound equipment, getting the kitchen ready, cleaning toilets, etc, and forgetting each serve a separate, yet equally important role and task. It was almost nauseous how people lifted up the Rabbi (we were attending a Messianic Jewish congregation) over other members of the body.

When I read this I thought of this:

"17 The elders who rule well are to be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing,” and “The laborer is worthy of his wages.” " (1 Timothy 5:17-18 NASB)

But you seem to be saying it's wrong for the church to honor parts of the body differently(?)

Now I don't know you from Adam, so I'm not accusing you, but did you know that it can be pride in us that won't allow another person to be exalted? I think that's an example of 'projection'. The pride of exaltation we are sure we see in another is actually in us. This, IMO, is the primary source of faultfinding.

Having worked in difficult work situation for many years I noticed the boss usually was picked to pieces simply because he enjoyed rights and privileges that came with the added responsibilities he had that those who picked him to pieces wish they had for themselves. It comes out as 'you're not worthy of the honor you enjoy (but surely I am worthy of)'. It's nothing more than pride and envy disguised in critical faultfinding.

Just throwing it out there for us to digest. Not judging anybody. How can I do that. I don't know anybody personally in this forum.

But anyway, the scriptures show us their is indeed some differentiation between body parts not only allowed, but commanded.

No, maybe I didn't make my thoughts clear or complete them. As [MENTION=90700]Edward[/MENTION] said it is the glorifying almost of the pastor/minister. Yes, respect and duly recognize the teachers and preachers, but recognize that they are still a servant in the body of Christ, as we all are. It is when they take on the shepherd/overseer/elder roles all in one and control the direction of the congregation because we as a society lift up our pastors to a fault allowing them to make decisions in all areas. This is played out in churches great and small. It takes a special church with special people to operate effectively and efficiently to make it work. Maybe I haven't done enough work to understand the biblical principles of the structure of a body of believers, but this might be good homework to do.

Just thinking of Moses and Aaron, it was Moses leading the people and Aaron leading the religious ceremonies, not Moses doing both. If I understand the principles of their respective duties and responsibilities.

 

[ejected]

One man is not called to make all the decisions. Paul called addressed the Ephecian elders in Acts 20.
All the other letters that he wrote to the ekklesias were written to all the saints as a body. Every member Had the Christ within. Decisions were made unanimously.