Freewill religion is the Man of Sin !

[childeye]

Eventide & Childeye

Man looks at the outward, God looks at the inward. God is within all things being everywhere (Ps 139). God is not the creation. But neither is he separate from the creation. That’s the idea of Deism.

When we look at the outward we see things that are sometimes illusionary. Sometimes we see things that we expect to see or we want to see. We can’t always go by what we see. We have to know our limitations. Especially where the supernatural is concerned. That’s why we’ve been given a revelation, so that we can be helped to see, naturally and supernaturally.

The accounts in the Gospels that refer to being able to know them by their fruit refer to the Jews, to the Jewish nation that was about to be replaced physically with a more expansive Spiritual nation through the New Covenant. The Jewish nation had become very degraded by the first century. The knowing by the fruits is currently being interpreted to refer to any individual. In spite of the fact that Paul was clear that there are some who act like men and we can’t be sure whether they’re believers or not by outward appearance (1 Cor 1-3).

The more extreme of the Calvinists would answer the above question with a resounding no because they seem to have the impression, in their desire to give God all the credit that is due, that man is a machine programmed to do the bidding of the Creator. When in actuality, God created man with something of Divine nature inside (Gen 2:7). Man is more like God than they want to admit. Because to them that somehow makes God something less. When in reality it makes God something more. Especially in Christ. Those who are in Christ are added to God. That is, if one believes that Christ is Divine. And if one believes that those who are in Christ are part of the Body of Christ.

Man can never become God. But man is part of God by creation, something that can’t be said about any other living thing, or the rest of creation. Both the old creation in Adam where man is tainted by the fall (Rom 5:12-14), and even more in the new creation in Christ (2 Cor 5:17). “Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.†(2 Pet 1:2-4 KJV)

There’s a much closer relationship between man and God then some want to admit. They think that such a relationship smacks of Pantheism. Christians are much too afraid to see things that some non-Christians may already see intuitively, though imperfectly or too extremely. The non-Christians may see things, but we have the revelation that perfects what they see. If we are looking at that revelation through the eyes of Jesus Christ through the Spirit.

What has been tainted by the fall is regained in Christ. Our completion, our salvation, is in Christ. That has always been the intention of God, from the beginning (Ephesians). The Tree of Life in Genesis is the beginning of Life that is completed in Christ (John, Revelation). Christ is all things to us who are in Christ. Christ is also all things to those who are not in Christ. They just don’t see it yet. The main work of God (Eph 2:10) is that through we who are in Christ, by walking by the Spirit and keeping the unity of the Spirit, all may see and experience the Life that is in Christ for themselves. It is very evident in something that Jesus himself said, “Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.†(John 17:20-23 KJV)

FC

Dear FC, I am not a calvinist whatever that means. I agree with you that we are more like God than we know. My view is that we doubt that. In the garden we tried to fix what was not broken. It is not sin to count yourself equal to God was half of what Paul called the mind of Christ. Satan desired to be like God. I believe this shows that Satan viewed God like the guy who gets to tell everybody else what to do so he doesn't have to work. But Jesus showed that God was the guy at the bottom doing everything that needed to get done. God is doing all the work nobody else wants to do. So the latter half of what Paul calls the mind of Christ is to present yourself a servant to all.

 

[childeye]

Does Lucifer have a will of his own?

Everyone has a will of their own. The deceived will is not free however.

 

[childeye]

Your generic answer to anything that doesn't support your view.. lol

Yes it is a generic answer I use more with you than others, I've noticed.

Or that some love darkness and will not come to the light lest their deeds be exposed..

This is a good point and not lost in semantics. People are hiding from God much like in the Garden of Eden. These lovers of darkness are not aware of what the light is and so they run away, not knowing trust nor being trustworthy. They think the light is coming to punish them, because they know not it is the cure for their sickness.

Yes, because again.. He's that true light which ligheth every man that comes into the world although not all men are willing to come to the light..

Yes I have already said this.

It's called a decision.. it's called agreeing with God.. it's called counting the cost.. it's called willfully laying down my life for the infinitely glorious life of Christ.

Of course it is a decision because as you said, they are not willing, so they choose not to. Furthermore you made a great point, you even speak about why they are not willing. This is exposing a character trait through which the will is beholden.

 

[Eventide]

This is a good point and not lost in semantics. People are hiding from God much like in the Garden of Eden. These lovers of darkness are not aware of what the light is and so they run away, not knowing trust nor being trustworthy. They think the light is coming to punish them, because they know not it is the cure for their sickness.

This I would have to disagree with.. people do know what that true light is because as the scripture says.. God makes it known to them.. and that's why men are without excuse. That true light convicts of SIN, RIGHTEOUSNESS, and JUDGMENT.. so men DO KNOW..

Of course it is a decision because as you said, they are not willing, so they choose not to. Furthermore you made a great point, you even speak about why they are not willing. This is exposing a character trait through which the will is beholden.

Not willing does NOT mean that they CAN'T come to God..

 

[savedbygrace57]

Makes Room for man to Glory !

The Man of sin religion or the Freewill religion are all religions that gives space for men to Glory in the flesh for the salvation of the soul. It should always be God who is entitled to the praise and Glory of Salvation, even when one Trusts in Christ after hearing the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation. This is seen in Eph 1:12-13

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ones Trusting, believing in Christ as a result of having their Salvation made known to them by the Gospel, should be to the Praise of His Glory, not the glory of freewill, or my decision or my choice.

Paul Thanked God when people received the word and believed 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

You see, God is to be Thanked for believers because it meant God effectually worked in them !

The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation..

 

[Elijah674]

Makes Room for man to Glory !

The Man of sin religion or the Freewill religion are all religions that gives space for men to Glory in the flesh for the salvation of the soul. It should always be God who is entitled to the praise and Glory of Salvation, even when one Trusts in Christ after hearing the word of Truth, the Gospel of their Salvation. This is seen in Eph 1:12-13

12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ones Trusting, believing in Christ as a result of having their Salvation made known to them by the Gospel, should be to the Praise of His Glory, not the glory of freewill, or my decision or my choice.

Paul Thanked God when people received the word and believed 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

You see, God is to be Thanked for believers because it meant God effectually worked in them !

The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation..

Just wondering, your post.. 'The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation.'

if you are making the claim [OPENLY] that you can indeed read anothers MOTIVES + heart & their mind? Then 'i' see it as that you have an unrepairable problem!

Free choice to be saved has lost mankind CHOOSING ONLY to be OBEDIENT to the Eternal Gospel Plan which if we so choose, ALL PROVISIONS ARE [FREELY GIVEN]. Meaning mankind will have the Power of God. yet, the power is still conditional to supply ALL IN WORKING TOGETHER, if he so chooses the plan!

Forum: Do you see any hint in this breaking of the Lords Commandment (false witness above + 2 Cor. 4:2) of these ones in Phil. 4:13 'I can do ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST that strengtheneth me' + 2 Cor. 12:9 '.. My GRACE is sufficent for thee: for MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT [in weakness.]' is taking CREDIT [ALONE] FOR THEIR SALVATION??? SALVATION has always been CONDITIONAL from day one of the Godhead's creation on! (even Heb. twice repeated other worlds!) God/Forbid's such mind & motive reading 'twisting' stuff!

And, such has been freely done as seen in Gen. 4:7 ones NEW DESIRE! (Very Sad Indeed)


--Elijah

 

[childeye]

Just wondering, your post.. 'The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation.'

if you are making the claim [OPENLY] that you can indeed read anothers MOTIVES + heart & their mind? Then 'i' see it as that you have an unrepairable problem!

Free choice to be saved has lost mankind CHOOSING ONLY to be OBEDIENT to the Eternal Gospel Plan which if we so choose, ALL PROVISIONS ARE [FREELY GIVEN]. Meaning mankind will have the Power of God. yet, the power is still conditional to supply ALL IN WORKING TOGETHER, if he so chooses the plan!

Forum: Do you see any hint in this breaking of the Lords Commandment (false witness above + 2 Cor. 4:2) of these ones in Phil. 4:13 'I can do ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST that strengtheneth me' + 2 Cor. 12:9 '.. My GRACE is sufficent for thee: for MY STRENGTH IS MADE PERFECT [in weakness.]' is taking CREDIT [ALONE] FOR THEIR SALVATION??? SALVATION has always been CONDITIONAL from day one of the Godhead's creation on! (even Heb. twice repeated other worlds!) God/Forbid's such mind & motive reading 'twisting' stuff!

And, such has been freely done as seen in Gen. 4:7 ones NEW DESIRE! (Very Sad Indeed)


--Elijah

Dear Elijah, I can only speak for myself but I truly don't see any false witness. There are semantics, so when you ask can you read someone's heart and mind doesn't exclude the fact that we all must try to understand what someone means when hearing someone speak. We all could be accused of this when we evaluate what is true or false. Hence a freewill defined as being one's prerogative to hear God's word and take it or leave it sounds like God is taken for granted to me and I am not trying to offend anyone in saying so. When He speaks unto us, should we not be grateful that He is giving us food for life? What is there that is more important than that? Should we not deeply understand the price endured by the Christ at the cross for our sakes? Such things should not be taken lightly. It was the devil who said in the Garden of Eden we could choose to disobey God and live. This was a lie I hope we have all learned.

 

[Sinthesis]

You see, God is to be Thanked for believers because it meant God effectually worked in them !

The man of sin religion, the freewill religion takes credit to themselves for believing the word of Truth, and in doing so, takes credit for their trusting, resulting in their salvation..

So to whom should the credit go for their believing and trusting?

 

[Elijah674]

So to whom should the credit go for their believing and trusting?

Who was the one who created the :robot?? Surely NOT God! See Gen. 3:27

Mankind were created by the Godhead with a 'brain' to make both good or bad choices with.

 

[childeye]

Who was the one who created the :robot?? Surely NOT God! See Gen. 3:27

Mankind were created by the Godhead with a 'brain' to make both good or bad choices with.

This is a common argument but the carnal mind cannot be subject to God as scripture states.

 

[Elijah674]

Who was the one who created the :robot?? Surely NOT God! See Gen. 3:27

Mankind were created by the Godhead with a 'brain' to make both good or bad choices with.

PS: No, there is a big complete opposite difference in the Holy Spirit STRIVING to get IN, that the Holy Spirit getting in. Gen. 6:3

Compare this other class in Luke 13:23-25 CLOSED DOOR by free choice!

Can you just see Christ using FORCE as does satan?
He says: 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock: [IF ANYMAN HEAR MY VOICE, AND OPEN THE DOOR], I WILL COME INTO HIM], and will [SUP WITH HIM AND HE WITH ME.]' Rev. 3:20

 

[childeye]

PS: No, there is a big complete opposite difference in the Holy Spirit STRIVING to get IN, that the Holy Spirit getting in. Gen. 6:3

Compare this other class in Luke 13:23-25 CLOSED DOOR by free choice!

Can you just see Christ using FORCE as does satan?
He says: 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock: [IF ANYMAN HEAR MY VOICE, AND OPEN THE DOOR], I WILL COME INTO HIM], and will [SUP WITH HIM AND HE WITH ME.]' Rev. 3:20

By choice yes, but free? For some believed in the power of the Gospel, the force of the Word of God was upon them because of faith and behold many of the last will be first because God has chosen the lowly rich in faith. Christianity is not rational according to the wisdom of this world which thinks it's wills are free but are held captive to lies. The only freewill is the one who sees the Truth and believes.

 

[Eventide]

By choice yes, but free? For some believed in the power of the Gospel, the force of the Word of God was upon them because of faith and behold many of the last will be first because God has chosen the lowly rich in faith. Christianity is not rational according to the wisdom of this world which thinks it's wills are free but are held captive to lies. The only freewill is the one who sees the Truth and believes.

So are you saying that God forces some to believe the word of God ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

So to whom should the credit go for their believing and trusting?

I can't believe you asked me that in light of what I just posted in post # 45

 

[Sinthesis]

I can't believe you asked me that in light of what I just posted in post # 45

Indulge me. To whom should the credit go for their believing and trusting?

 

[childeye]

So are you saying that God forces some to believe the word of God ?

Jesus said those who are of God hear God's words, and that His sheep know their shepherds voice and follow him and another shepherd they will not follow. He leads them unto good pastures and his rod is their comfort. Therefore to His sheep, they are willing to follow for they know the shepherd is a good shepherd. The Truth that God is goodness and Life however forces the unbelieving to learn the hard way and it could be said they were forced to concede even as the prodigal son also was forced to concede. Yet the prodigal son was welcomed with open arms by the loving Father for of such purity is His Love. To me personally this Love is a force that softens my hard heart and forces me to believe. How about you?

 

[childeye]

Indulge me. To whom should the credit go for their believing and trusting?

No credit is given to one who loves altruisticly for this is believing in God which is the norm. Read what heros say, "I did what I had to do". Should a thief be given credit for returning what he had stolen?

 

[Eventide]

Jesus said those who are of God hear God's words, and that His sheep know their shepherds voice and follow him and another shepherd they will not follow. He leads them unto good pastures and his rod is their comfort. Therefore to His sheep, they are willing to follow for they know the shepherd is a good shepherd. The Truth that God is goodness and Life however forces the unbelieving to learn the hard way and it could be said they were forced to concede even as the prodigal son also was forced to concede. Yet the prodigal son was welcomed with open arms by the loving Father for of such purity is His Love. To me personally this Love is a force that softens my hard heart and forces me to believe. How about you?

It sounds to me like you do believe in... IRRESISTABLE GRACE..

If God forces His love upon people, and He is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world.. then why isn't every man saved ?

 

[Elijah674]

It sounds to me like you do believe in... IRRESISTABLE GRACE..

If God forces His love upon people, and He is that true light which lighteth every man that comes into the world.. then why isn't every man saved ?

Seems obvious, huh?
Fear is the beginning of wisdom. Mankind is lost! But not all at once do we see death. Nor has the lost ones lost all of what God created them with. LOVE? All the lost still have some love left. Yet, it is REQUIRED to have the Agape Love & BE BORN AGAIN with it! OK??

Now: How does God bring this about to us LOST ones whose love has to become the Real Love? There are two ways found in Jude 1:22-23. Both Compassion & Fear.
We hear of compassion much. Read Isa. 5:1-5 & we see that God asks what more could He do than what He had (HAS) Done in LOVING COMPASSION?

OK: Here in the next verse one needs to pay attention! Jude has two ways for God to reach out in TRUE LOVING ways. The first did not work, and the next will be His last resort. He says that He will cut down the HEDGE OF HIS LOVING PROTECTION! But how is that LOVE one asks?

FEAR has one (like the prodicial son) wake up, if the seed had been sown, it even works better. OK, now fear saves NO ONE is agreed! But when one comes crying out to God while even being lost & uncoverted, it is then that they are most likely to choose to yield up the stubborn 'will' to Acts 5:32's CONDITION!

If so.. it is THEN THAT THEY BECOME BORN AGAIN WITH AGAPE TRUE LOVE. And whose free choice is it? See Acts 9:6 for that one! And it could have gone either way. The DECISION IS OURS TO MAKE!

 

[Jake]

The only freewill is the one who sees the Truth and believes.

Isn't that something we do?