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GAP…theory…or…fact?

FreeGrace

Member
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:1,2 KJV

The concept that there is a time gap between v.1 and 2 is called the GAP theory. And there are a number of websites that disagree with that. However, the ones I've checked haven't acknowledged all that is involved in the concept. For example, AIG seems to treat anyone who believes that the earth is much older than Adam as an evolutionist up front. There is one link on the "gap theory" written by Henry Morris in 1987 on the AIG site. However, his critique seems to miss the whole argument, pluse he makes some simple mistakes in a few of his statements.

My position is that the earth is quite a lot older than Adam, which I believe can be discerned from Scripture, which I shall share. And, I accept the account of Genesis 1 as literal. Now, from AIG's perspective, how can that be?? My objective is to take 1 point at a time, allowing for any questions, or discussion, or debate.

First Point: please note the underlined words in v.2 above. The discussion will consider what these words mean, and how they are used in the rest of Scripture. Plus, I will demonstrate from the NT several verses that provide indication that something occurred between v.1 and 2 in Genesis 1.

The first word underlined is "was". It is the Hebrew word "hayah"; meaning, to exist, i.e., to be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).

The word is spelled a number of different ways in the Hebrew lexicon, and the word is translated a number of different ways in the OT. The word occurs some 3560 times. Here are the different ways it's found:
become, became, came to pass, came, was, were, shall be, will be, were even. Morris claimed in his article on the AIG site that the Hebrew word can only be "become" when context requires it. Since there is only 1 verse "in context" with v.2, that seems hardly a fair claim. We need to see what the whole counsel of God says regarding creation and Genesis 1. That would be proper context, not just what precedes v.2 in Genesis 1. And I will provide verses from both the OT and NT that do require that "hayah" in Gen 1:2 be rendered "became". :) Also, keep in mind that Moses, the author of Genesis, didn't write "was". He used the Hebrew word, which can be rendered in several different ways. We will determine his meaning from comparing the word with other verses, plus examining some NT verses.

The exact spelling form of "hayah" as found in v.2 occurs 4 more times in the OT, ALL of which are translated "become". These are: Gen 47:26, Ex 9:24, 1 Sam 10:12 and Joshua 14:14. In fact, the word is translated as "become" or "became" about 56 times in the OT, but I have focused only on the 5 verses where the spelling in the lexicon is exactly the same as Gen 1:2, which is: "haayataah", with the "a" following the "y" as a superscript.

My point here is that it is legitimate to understand Gen 1:2 as saying "and the earth became…" For reasons to follow. My point here is to demonstrate that the earth became something different than the original creation in v.1.

Questions, comments, etc?
 
It definately wouldn't be considered a theory because there is no solid working model to use to show how it works. Its more of an argument that is based around semantics.

A theory would be based around using data that correlates a conclusion that there was a large cap between the forming of the earth and the appearance of Adam.

Since the evidence provided is only Biblical text, you have started out with a hypothesis. You are hypothesizing that since the wording of Genesis is as it is, then Adam would have appeared much farther down the time line than expected.

What you would need is to then provide the evidnce that Adam appeared at a later date, such as artifacts, dating methods, genetics, blood lines that can be traced, etc.
 
It definately wouldn't be considered a theory because there is no solid working model to use to show how it works. Its more of an argument that is based around semantics.
I intend to show from Scripture that it is not a theory, but a fact. ;)

A theory would be based around using data that correlates a conclusion that there was a large cap between the forming of the earth and the appearance of Adam.

Since the evidence provided is only Biblical text, you have started out with a hypothesis. You are hypothesizing that since the wording of Genesis is as it is, then Adam would have appeared much farther down the time line than expected.
It may be "only" Biblical text to you, but as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, it is God's Word to me. There is no hypothesis here. As the OP stated, I will show from Scripture that there is a time gap between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

What you would need is to then provide the evidnce that Adam appeared at a later date, such as artifacts, dating methods, genetics, blood lines that can be traced, etc.
That is coming. But the evidence is "only" Biblical text, so it may not impress you.

My intent was to show believers that there is a time gap and the earth is much older than Adam, without support the actual theory of evolution.

I didn't start this thread for who don't hold the Bible up as God's Word. But anyone who has access to this subforum is welcome to post.
 
ok, if there was sin before the fall and death came into the world before adam. please tell me how you got around that?

and which wife did adam have? gap theorists in some parts accept that Lilith was first then eve.
 
ok, if there was sin before the fall and death came into the world before adam. please tell me how you got around that?
That will be answered after I provide all the verses that indicate that God created the world way before He created Adam on day 6. The answer is easy, btw. I didn't have to "get around" anything.

and which wife did adam have? gap theorists in some parts accept that Lilith was first then eve.
I'm not familiar with "Lilith". I'm only aware of the woman who was built from his flesh, later called Eve.

I did a word search in my Bible software on "Lilith" and nothing came up. What source to you have for that woman?

I'd prefer if these kinds of questions could be held until all the evidence from Scripture is given. Then, many of these kinds of questions will probably have already been answered. Thanks.
 
That will be answered after I provide all the verses that indicate that God created the world way before He created Adam on day 6. The answer is easy, btw. I didn't have to "get around" anything.


I'm not familiar with "Lilith". I'm only aware of the woman who was built from his flesh, later called Eve.

I did a word search in my Bible software on "Lilith" and nothing came up. What source to you have for that woman?

I'd prefer if these kinds of questions could be held until all the evidence from Scripture is given. Then, many of these kinds of questions will probably have already been answered. Thanks.
the jews say that. you assumed that only Christians teach gap theory, you are in fact wrong. the jews were and are arguring this .

show me from a Chassidic source or messianic source on the Hebrew translation of the words barah. and genesis 1:2.
 
the jews say that. you assumed that only Christians teach gap theory, you are in fact wrong. the jews were and are arguring this .
Where have I assumed anything. My comments were about the fact that there is disagreement among evangelicals about whether the earth is way older than Adam. So, in fact, I'm not the one who's wrong here. :)

show me from a Chassidic source or messianic source on the Hebrew translation of the words barah. and genesis 1:2.
I'm getting there. You need to be a bit more patient. What I'm doing is laying out all the verses that provide evidence that God created the earth way before He created Adam. I will address the 3 Hebrew words used in Genesis: barah, asah, and yatsar. Actually, there is one more; the word banah, meaning that God "built" the woman from Adam's flesh. I guess one could say that Eve was built. :)

You didn't provide a source for Lilith. Is there any? If your "the jews say that" refers to your source, could you narrow it down a bit more?
 
OK, seems there isn't any argument about "hayah" meaning "became", which indicates that the earth became something different than how God originally created the earth.

So, second point, we will examine the next words in v.2: "without form and void". The Hebrew is "tohu wabohu". The phrase occurs just 3 times in the OT.

Tohu (without form) means: lie waste, a desolation of surface, figuratively, a worthless thing, adverbially, in vain. Confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, waste, wilderness
Gen 1:2, Deut 32:10, Job 12:24, Psa 107:40

Wabohu (void) to be empty, a vacuity, an indistinguishable ruin.
Only used with the former.

In passages where they occur conjointly (Isa 34:11 and Jer 4:23) they are used to describe the desolatons which were to overspread Idumaea and Palestine respectively, and by which those countries would be reduced from the settled and flourishing condition which they exhibited at the time of the predictions into universal disorder and ruin.

Now, we examine a passage related to Gen 1:1,2. Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created (barah) the heavens; God himself that formed (yatsar) the earth and made (asah) it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (tohu), he formed (yatsar) it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

Here we read that God created out of nothing (barah) the heavens, and formed and made it. Also note that He did NOT "create it in vain", or as a waste place, desolate, etc. See tohu above.

Yet, we read in Gen 1:2 that the earth became a waste place, or desolate, empty, a wilderness. So Isa 45:18 is evidence that something happened between Gen 1:1 and 1:2 and the earth became something else from original creation.

Lest anyone think I have taken liberties in putting in my own wording for tohu as translated in the KJV, this is how the NASB translates that verse:
For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), “I am the LORD, and there is none else.

The NASB didn't treat tohu as an adverb.

So Isa 45:18 supports the idea that something changed the earth between v.1 and v.2. Therefore, v.1 refers to original creation, and v.2 refers to the result of what happened between original creation and when v.2ff occurred.

Questions, comments, etc?
 
i suppose you would call the gap theory the recreation theory?

tob
No. First, I don't call it a theory at all. As I am in the process of demonstrating. :)

Second, I view the bulk of Genesis 1 to be a restoration, which I will prove when I get into the Greek and NT verses. :)
 
Per request, this thread is being moved to the A&T forum. The OP has made a statement and will attempt to prove it using scripture.

Enjoy!
 
I'd like to thank Deborah13 for the excellent suggestion for moving this thread from "science", which isn't an open forum, to an open one. And thanks to the technical expertise of WIP for the actual move.
:thumbsup
 
OK, seems there isn't any argument about "hayah" meaning "became", which indicates that the earth became something different than how God originally created the earth.

It could also indicate the earth 'became' as something different than the original state of not being created. The uncreated becoming created.

There is no inherent problem with gap theories. The problems arise with the things people try to insert into the gaps.
 
Where have I assumed anything. My comments were about the fact that there is disagreement among evangelicals about whether the earth is way older than Adam. So, in fact, I'm not the one who's wrong here. :)


I'm getting there. You need to be a bit more patient. What I'm doing is laying out all the verses that provide evidence that God created the earth way before He created Adam. I will address the 3 Hebrew words used in Genesis: barah, asah, and yatsar. Actually, there is one more; the word banah, meaning that God "built" the woman from Adam's flesh. I guess one could say that Eve was built. :)

You didn't provide a source for Lilith. Is there any? If your "the jews say that" refers to your source, could you narrow it down a bit more?
yes see the book the Zohar. www.chabad.org.

if the earth is older then adam, then where are the spaces in the days? the earth was without form and void. that isn't even the first day.
 
It could also indicate the earth 'became' as something different than the original state of not being created. The uncreated becoming created.
The Hebrew and Greek will show that what occurred from Gen 1:2ff was a restoration.

There is no inherent problem with gap theories. The problems arise with the things people try to insert into the gaps.
The time gap will be shown to be a fact, not a theory. And yes, the Bible doesn't tell us what happened. But by "being diligent, through study, to show oneself approved by God, a workman not needing to be ashamed, and rightly dividing the Word of Truth", it isn't really too hard to figure out what happened.

btw, my thread is to provide the evidence that the earth is way older than Adam, and in no way supports the actual theory of evolution.
 
yes see the book the Zohar. www.chabad.org.
Thanks, but I'll pass. If Lilith isn't mentioned in the Bible, I'm not interested in her.

if the earth is older then adam, then where are the spaces in the days? the earth was without form and void. that isn't even the first day.
I have no idea what your question means. Sorry. As to you second comment, yes, when the earth became a waste place, that wasn't even the first day. That didn't occur until the Holy Spirit thawed out the earth and God began the restoration of earth, preparing it for mankind.
 
The earth is 6,000 years old. Face the facts. ;)
Please follow the posts. I've already given the first 2 points of facts. What is there in my posts that can be refuted?

I'm building the case slowly because this forum doesn't like long posts. Plus, to give all the info at once would be kinda hard to digest.

btw, Adam was created about 6,000 years ago. The earth; much older by far. As the facts will show.
 
1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:1,2 KJV

The concept that there is a time gap between v.1 and 2 is called the GAP theory. And there are a number of websites that disagree with that. However, the ones I've checked haven't acknowledged all that is involved in the concept. For example, AIG seems to treat anyone who believes that the earth is much older than Adam as an evolutionist up front. There is one link on the "gap theory" written by Henry Morris in 1987 on the AIG site. However, his critique seems to miss the whole argument, pluse he makes some simple mistakes in a few of his statements.

My position is that the earth is quite a lot older than Adam, which I believe can be discerned from Scripture, which I shall share. And, I accept the account of Genesis 1 as literal. Now, from AIG's perspective, how can that be?? My objective is to take 1 point at a time, allowing for any questions, or discussion, or debate.

First Point: please note the underlined words in v.2 above. The discussion will consider what these words mean, and how they are used in the rest of Scripture. Plus, I will demonstrate from the NT several verses that provide indication that something occurred between v.1 and 2 in Genesis 1.

The first word underlined is "was". It is the Hebrew word "hayah"; meaning, to exist, i.e., to be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary).

The word is spelled a number of different ways in the Hebrew lexicon, and the word is translated a number of different ways in the OT. The word occurs some 3560 times. Here are the different ways it's found:
become, became, came to pass, came, was, were, shall be, will be, were even. Morris claimed in his article on the AIG site that the Hebrew word can only be "become" when context requires it. Since there is only 1 verse "in context" with v.2, that seems hardly a fair claim. We need to see what the whole counsel of God says regarding creation and Genesis 1. That would be proper context, not just what precedes v.2 in Genesis 1. And I will provide verses from both the OT and NT that do require that "hayah" in Gen 1:2 be rendered "became". :) Also, keep in mind that Moses, the author of Genesis, didn't write "was". He used the Hebrew word, which can be rendered in several different ways. We will determine his meaning from comparing the word with other verses, plus examining some NT verses.

The exact spelling form of "hayah" as found in v.2 occurs 4 more times in the OT, ALL of which are translated "become". These are: Gen 47:26, Ex 9:24, 1 Sam 10:12 and Joshua 14:14. In fact, the word is translated as "become" or "became" about 56 times in the OT, but I have focused only on the 5 verses where the spelling in the lexicon is exactly the same as Gen 1:2, which is: "haayataah", with the "a" following the "y" as a superscript.

My point here is that it is legitimate to understand Gen 1:2 as saying "and the earth became…" For reasons to follow. My point here is to demonstrate that the earth became something different than the original creation in v.1.

Questions, comments, etc?

I am with ya!

Some other things to consider also in this verse.

1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Gen 1:1,2 KJV

Darkness~~ it could be a created darkness.

Deep~~ the Abyss.

Spirit of God~~denotes regeneration or restoration.

The Angelic conflict/Kingdom conflict. I am without notes and my study to show these words. I will have to post more on them later.

Great and important study FreeGrace.
 
The only problem with the GAP theory is that it says that creation suffered death and destruction before Adam's fall Romans 5:12.Through Adam's sin evil entered our world.But rebellion already existed outside the realm of mankind,since Satan and his angels had already fallen Isaiah 14:12-14.Sin could not enter the realm of man until man chose it.And Satan,via the serpent,successfully tempted man to make that choice.

www.gotquestions.org
 
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