Gay Marriage Question

[Navigator]

Okay, this question is from a debate that my friends and I had my freshman year of college regarding homosexual marriage and whether or not it should be legalized.

A little background information about my friends and I: All of us are Christian in one way or another. I go to a non-denominational church, two of my friends (twins) go to a Biblical focused church, and another one of my friends goes to a Christian church, though I do not know the denomination.

Now the question is: Should gay marriage be legalized? Now myself, my Catholic friend, and the last friend I mentioned were indifferent and felt like "why not?" in regards to legalizing gay marriage. The way we saw it was: "Yes, homosexuality is a sin, but legalizing gay marriage will not produce more gay people, it will simply allow the gay people that already exist equal rights that the rest of us enjoy." We also argued that since we are all sinners, who are we to refuse rights to a group simply because they sin?

Now my twin friends had none of that. They agreed that we all sin and all sin should be considered equal, but in the same breath they said homosexuality is different. I was confused by that, and they didn't really explain it.

What do you all think? To clarify, the first group of us aren't ardent supporters of legalizing gay marriage, we just don't necessarily see the harm in it. Thoughts?

 

[stovebolts]

I disagree with gay marriage simply because it's not how I view a marriage. When I think marriage, I think family. You know, Mom, Dad and the Kids with maybe a goldfish and a dog named spot.

Now, in the past 50 years marriage has become something that looks like this. Mom, Step Dad, Dad on weekends and kids. For many, this is similar to what a family looks like.

My daughter graduated H.S. last year, and I was amazed when she told me about two gay guys kissing in the hallway... and for her, it was normal.

Now we want to change the whole picture of what marriage is supposed to represent. Isn't that picture distorted enough?

We have to give our kids something to model after and honestly, I think one mother, one father raising children is about the best visual of "normal" that we could show them.

That is why I disagree with gay marriage.

.02

 

[Ace1234]

The issue is equal right, but the other issue is cultural, we've deemed gay marriage illegal for so long based on religious principles. Legally, I have no problem with it being legal, we are a nation of laws and equal protections. As for the religious aspect, it would be up to each church, but no church should be forced to marry them, nor do I think gays would want to be married in that church..

We have a gay couple lives down the road and have for 20 years, nice loving neighbors, if they got married I would never know it.

 

[stovebolts]

Ace,

In a race, is everyone a winner? I mean, does everyone come in first place or are there those who come in first and those who come in last?

While I understand and yes, even agree that each state should be able to decide the issue of gay marriage, my vote will always be a resounding NO based on how I view a family.

The simple fact of the matter is this. Two people of the same sex by nature cannot bear a child.

The very core of our nation is built on the family structure. Our family structures are crumbling all around us and chaos is the norm. Why would we want to break down this structure even further?

 

[Pard]

The Bible speaks against both the attraction and the sexual action of homosexuality. It is very clear that God condemns this notion in all ways. In fact the Bible calls it both "unnatural" and "abominable". This would truly exclude homosexual marriage from being favored by God. Furthermore every instance of marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman and it is considered natural and right.

Even modern science and medicine points to homosexuality being unnatural. Psychiatry shows that a man and a woman's mentality are designed to compliment one another. And clearly the physiology of male and female anatomy demonstrates that is is natural for a man and woman to be together and unnatural and in fact counter productive for two people of the same sex to be together.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27949">18</sup> The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27950">19</sup> since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27951">20</sup> For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27952">21</sup> For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27953">22</sup> Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27954">23</sup> and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27955">24</sup> Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27956">25</sup> They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27957">26</sup> Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27958">27</sup> In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27959">28</sup> Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27960">29</sup> They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27961">30</sup> slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27962">31</sup> they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. <sup class="versenum" id="en-NIV-27963">32</sup> Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

The above passage of scripture speaks to the suppression of these obvious truths by the secular world and even some Christian groups espouse that homosexuality is OK.

To give it allowance in society (either through votes or court decisions) is to put man's petty "feelings" before God's Law. A lie is promoted while the truth is stamped out. Is this something God would like? Would He want His Truth (which He shows through both scripture and nature) to be suppressed merely so people could feel better? And what of the effects on new generations? If they are taught that a lie and kept from the Truth how will that effect them?

Marriage isn't man's. It is something of God that He bestows upon people. Truly marriage is one of the oldest concepts in the world and to besmirch it is a crime against God.

 

[Jirakly]

I personally believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with gay marriage what so ever. There is no law either to say that two people must be married to have a family. Marriage is something that two people who love each other take show a commitment to love each other, and whether it be two men, two women or a man and a woman, it matters not because as long as THE PEOPLE WHO IT EFFECTS, being the two being bound are happy, that is all that matters.

I have no problem with gay people at all and some of the nicest people I know are gay and I would never deem anything bad upon them because they simply do not deserve. As long as they are happy, and they can lead a happy life together, that's all that matters. Besides, it what they do doesn't effect any of our lives, so I don;t even see why it's a "sin".

 

[Webb]

''FOR THIS CAUSE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER, AND SHALL BE JOINED UNTO HIS WIFE, AND THEIY TWO SHALL BE ONE FLESH.'' Eph.5:31.

God has to say something but once to make it right and true. The above passage is found THREE times in the scipture. Must have been real important to God! Note they say "man" and "wife". In fact, the whole context of the above passage is that of Christ and the church and husband and the wife. I question that we have the right to change or ignore anything God has instructed us in.

 

[Navigator]

Ace,

In a race, is everyone a winner? I mean, does everyone come in first place or are there those who come in first and those who come in last?

While I understand and yes, even agree that each state should be able to decide the issue of gay marriage, my vote will always be a resounding NO based on how I view a family.

The simple fact of the matter is this. Two people of the same sex by nature cannot bear a child.

The very core of our nation is built on the family structure. Our family structures are crumbling all around us and chaos is the norm. Why would we want to break down this structure even further?

There are many heterosexual couples that cannot bear a child and are forced to adopt, which is what many gay couples do as well, so I don't see a solid argument there.



And for the last two posters..again..this was NOT a debate on whether homosexuality in itself is bad or a sin. We all know that it is a sin and spoken of as one in the Bible. Homosexuality will persist regardless of whether marriage is legal or not. The marriage itself is a ceremony to join two peoples together. The people making up the pair is where the sin can be found, not in the ceremony itself.

 

[Pard]

I have to disagree. It is about homosexuality being a sin. It is only when you add this into the equation along with the fact that marriage is something that is ordained by God that you see legalization of homosexuality isn't a good idea. When you change God's desire to suit the needs of man you are doing no one good!

Legalizing homosexuality pushes the TRUTH to the bottom.

And I can only assume you didn't even read my post if you did you'd see that not only did I hardly bring up the sin of homosexuality at all but how I tied it all together.

 

[Navigator]

The Bible speaks against both the attraction and the sexual action of homosexuality. It is very clear that God condemns this notion in all ways. In fact the Bible calls it both "unnatural" and "abominable". This would truly exclude homosexual marriage from being favored by God. Furthermore every instance of marriage in the Bible is between a man and a woman and it is considered natural and right.

Even modern science and medicine points to homosexuality being unnatural. Psychiatry shows that a man and a woman's mentality are designed to compliment one another. And clearly the physiology of male and female anatomy demonstrates that is is natural for a man and woman to be together and unnatural and in fact counter productive for two people of the same sex to be together.



The above passage of scripture speaks to the suppression of these obvious truths by the secular world and even some Christian groups espouse that homosexuality is OK.

To give it allowance in society (either through votes or court decisions) is to put man's petty "feelings" before God's Law. A lie is promoted while the truth is stamped out. Is this something God would like? Would He want His Truth (which He shows through both scripture and nature) to be suppressed merely so people could feel better? And what of the effects on new generations? If they are taught that a lie and kept from the Truth how will that effect them?

Marriage isn't man's. It is something of God that He bestows upon people. Truly marriage is one of the oldest concepts in the world and to besmirch it is a crime against God.

I have to disagree. It is about homosexuality being a sin. It is only when you add this into the equation along with the fact that marriage is something that is ordained by God that you see legalization of homosexuality isn't a good idea. When you change God's desire to suit the needs of man you are doing no one good!

Legalizing homosexuality pushes the TRUTH to the bottom.

And I can only assume you didn't even read my post if you did you'd see that not only did I hardly bring up the sin of homosexuality at all but how I tied it all together.

Homosexuality itself is already allowed in society; it's the official joining of two bodies that has yet to be legalized.

God created Eve so Adam would no longer be lonely. God said that no man should be alone. There were no papers legalizing their union; there was no party thrown. They were just WITH each other. They were mates. Homosexuality is sin, I hope you don't think I believe otherwise, but what I'm trying to say is..a couple getting a marriage certificate from the government does not make their sin any worse or any better. When they decide in their hearts that they want to get married, they have already married in God's eyes. Do you believe that God is more angry at a homosexual couple after a legal marriage than he is when they first lay with each other or even decide together that they WISH to get married?

 

[Gazelle]

four states continue to have laws in their legislation making homosexuality a criminal offense: Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana and Texas.

Fourteen states still had active sodomy laws in their legislation. Virginia, Alabama, Utah, Florida, South Carolina, Idaho, North Carolina, Louisiana, Mississippi, Kansas, Texas, Missouri and Oklahoma all refused to repeal these laws.

Four other states -- Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas and Missouri -- repealed their sodomy laws by mid-2003, but only as they applied to heterosexual couples. These states maintained that their sodomy laws still applied to homosexual couples.

As of 2011, Kansas, Oklahoma, Montana and Texas still have not repealed their laws against homosexual acts and sodomy. Eight years after the Supreme Court's 2003 decision, Texas has not removed its unconstitutional laws from its legislation, though they are now unenforceable; "deviate sexual intercourse with another individual of the same sex" is still a Class C misdemeanor. Kansas, Montana and Oklahoma also refuse to repeal their laws against homosexuality. In March 2011, a legislative committee in Montana blocked a bill that would have repealed the state's statutes against criminal conviction for homosexuality, and in February 2011, Kansas legislators refused to address the issue of their own laws because they said they were not being enforced anyway.

Read more: List of States Where Homosexuality Is Illegal | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_8197126_list-states-homosexuality-illegal.html#ixzz1dFijxFuw

It appears even when society doesn't want to condone it, they refuse to make a stand and condemn it and require the laws to be enforced. (How's that to be done?) Too bad Christians in this country didn't care to make the stand...as we are lacking to do so for many other "God" causes as well, imo.

Personally, I don't want to know your sexual inclinations...not any of you or of any one. I don't go for public displays of affection in that respect either. The USA is in a terrible population decrease, but I won't blame it all on homosexuals, as they are such a small minority. (Which does make me a bit upset because they "always" seem to force their way in society, even though a small minority. What ever happened to majority rule? Oh yeah, we're racist or bigots or intolerant if we speak up for God's rules. ;)

 

[WIP]

Homosexuality itself is already allowed in society; it's the official joining of two bodies that has yet to be legalized.

God created Eve so Adam would no longer be lonely. God said that no man should be alone. There were no papers legalizing their union; there was no party thrown. They were just WITH each other. They were mates. Homosexuality is sin, I hope you don't think I believe otherwise, but what I'm trying to say is..a couple getting a marriage certificate from the government does not make their sin any worse or any better. When they decide in their hearts that they want to get married, they have already married in God's eyes. Do you believe that God is more angry at a homosexual couple after a legal marriage than he is when they first lay with each other or even decide together that they WISH to get married?

Who decides when a couple is married: God or a government?

 

[WIP]

I personally believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with gay marriage what so ever. There is no law either to say that two people must be married to have a family. Marriage is something that two people who love each other take show a commitment to love each other, and whether it be two men, two women or a man and a woman, it matters not because as long as THE PEOPLE WHO IT EFFECTS, being the two being bound are happy, that is all that matters.

I have no problem with gay people at all and some of the nicest people I know are gay and I would never deem anything bad upon them because they simply do not deserve. As long as they are happy, and they can lead a happy life together, that's all that matters. Besides, it what they do doesn't effect any of our lives, so I don;t even see why it's a "sin".

Because God says it is. This is not up for debate.

 

[Mike]

To what end are we going to fight against something "if" our society decides to legalize it? I will never actually support or vote in favor of gay marriage, but I won't picket outside of city hall either. What society deems a legal marriage shouldn't impact what see as a Godly one. We should always keep marriage sacred as Christians, but we're not living in a theocracy.

I have distaste for homosexuality, and it would be sad if my society gave its nod of approval to it, but that's about as far as I'll go. So far as I know, Paul did not attempt to force God's Law on the Romans. He was concerned with changing hearts. It seems we shouldn't be forcing society to get in line with our values. We should focus on showing society how God intends marriage to be.

 

[WIP]

To me the use of the word "marriage" may be misleading. My belief is that marriage is God ordained and so when I hear the word I hear something from God. For a government to use the word to describe a legal union between two people is not accurate unless said government ascribes to God's definition of the word.

 

[Pard]

Do you believe that God is more angry at a homosexual couple after a legal marriage than he is when they first lay with each other or even decide together that they WISH to get married?

No he'll be as equally mad at them as he was before. He will be more angry at those who supported this to be allowed however.

I'm not going to argue with you because I posted here with the (obviously false) assumption that you were looking for the reason people oppose it.

I will say that you are condoning actions that will only lead society further down a very slippery slope and the Bible is very clear on this matter.

 

[jasoncran]

NO, and i have loved a man. god doesnt allows that sin in heavean, repent and be saved. its that simple.

and i had that presdisposition since 10.for the record i was bi.

 

[Navigator]

No he'll be as equally mad at them as he was before. He will be more angry at those who supported this to be allowed however.

I'm not going to argue with you because I posted here with the (obviously false) assumption that you were looking for the reason people oppose it.

I will say that you are condoning actions that will only lead society further down a very slippery slope and the Bible is very clear on this matter.

What I was looking for is why we are so concerned with the government's idea of marriage when it comes to homosexuals...not God's. I know that homosexuality is a sin, and I do not support its practice.

I said in my original post that I'm indifferent. I'm not supporting anything.

Like you said in your post, God sees the SIN, not the marriage; and we as a society seem to be focused on the marriage(our interpretation) part more than the sin part.

 

[reba]

Having always been thankful God has placed me in the USA, I am saddened by the desire i see to farther demoralize this country.

To accept homosexual marriage as normal is one more step to the stage of decadence.

 

[Pard]

Like you said in your post, God sees the SIN, not the marriage; and we as a society seem to be focused on the marriage(our interpretation) part more than the sin part.

Because to God they are explicitly tied together.

It's a slippery slope which Paul refers to (though without the term "slippery slope" since they probably didn't have that back in the day) in Romans 1. The same can be said about any of the other immoral and sinful activities that we have been badgered into allowing.

Abortion. OK fine what could that possibly spawn? Euthanasia.

Who knows what the next step after gay marriage is? I could speculate all day long but I'd rather just never have to see it.

The devil is like a child or a criminal. You give him a little bit and he begins to take a lot. He has to test the water to see where how far he can go.

Let me ask you this:

Would you still be in favor of gay marriage if they didn't have an entire book of words and phrases to throw at you and make you feel bad about (homophobic and such)? And would you feel more inclined to oppose it if other countries had not already passed laws in favor of it? And would you be more against it if homosexuality wasn't so common in everything from TV and movies to sidewalks and malls?