Generational end of days

[for_his_glory]

This generation, Matthew 24:34 means generational line of those who follow Christ and endure all things until the end of days and Christ returns. Generation can refer to a group of people, a period of time, or even a lineage

Matthew, Mark and Luke are three disciples who wrote of the same witness as they testify of what Jesus gave as answers to the three questions the disciples asked Him. When shall these things be? What shall be the sign of they coming and the end of the world? Matthew 24:3

The first thing Jesus proceeds to tell them is that there would never be another physical Temple of God built again and then proceeds to speak of the beginning of sorrows, Matthew 24:4-8, Rev 6:1-17, and not to be deceived nor be troubled for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Matthew 24:9-26 Jesus tells the disciples of the afflicting trials and tribulations that the abomination of desolations that Daniel spoke of, Daniel Chapter 7, 9, 11; Rev Chapter 13, that they must endure all the persecutions even to death while preaching the Gospel, Matthew 10:28, during the six seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments until Christ returns.

Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times, but God's covenant promises stand forever given to all who will come to Him by His mercy and grace through faith and believe in His only begotten Son Christ Jesus, John 3:16-17.

 

[RandyK]

This generation, Matthew 24:34 means generational line of those who follow Christ and endure all things until the end of days and Christ returns. Generation can refer to a group of people, a period of time, or even a lineage

It can, but does it here? I don't believe so. Words mean what they mean *in context,* because words are flexible things and can ge used differently on different occasions.

I believe Jesus was talking, in his Olivet Discourse, to his own apostles, to those in his own generation. And he was predicting an event that would happen literally within his own generation, just 40 years later. The major prophetic event he was specifically referencing was the absolute and total destruction of the Temple, which indeed happened in that very generation.

Matthew, Mark and Luke are three disciples who wrote of the same witness as they testify of what Jesus gave as answers to the three questions the disciples asked Him. When shall these things be? What shall be the sign of they coming and the end of the world? Matthew 24:3

The first thing Jesus proceeds to tell them is that there would never be another physical Temple of God built again and then proceeds to speak of the beginning of sorrows, Matthew 24:4-8, Rev 6:1-17, and not to be deceived nor be troubled for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Jesus was predicting the fate of national Israel going forward, with a new move to the Gentile world with an entirely new and different kind of temple. Israel would suffer the greatest and longest punishment in their history, the Great Tribulation--an exile that has spanned the entire NT period.

But the major focus in his Discourse was on the imminent fall of the Jewish Temple with its religion, Judaism. This would open the door to a system that invites all peoples, and not just the Jewish People.

This Th

Matthew 24:9-26 Jesus tells the disciples of the afflicting trials and tribulations that the abomination of desolations that Daniel spoke of, Daniel Chapter 7, 9, 11; Rev Chapter 13, that they must endure all the persecutions even to death while preaching the Gospel, Matthew 10:28, during the six seals, seven trumpets and seven vial judgments until Christ returns.

The AoD was the Roman Army that initiated Israel's long period of Great Tribulation. It will finally end at Christ's return.

Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times, but God's covenant promises stand forever given to all who will come to Him by His mercy and grace through faith and believe in His only begotten Son Christ Jesus, John 3:16-17.

God will return to Israel, but in the process have to eliminate all Jews who stand in the way. Israel will be restored to being God's People along with all of the Gentile Peoples who have now entered in, as well.

 

[for_his_glory]

It can, but does it here? I don't believe so. Words mean what they mean *in context,* because words are flexible things and can ge used differently on different occasions.

I believe Jesus was talking, in his Olivet Discourse, to his own apostles, to those in his own generation. And he was predicting an event that would happen literally within his own generation, just 40 years later. The major prophetic event he was specifically referencing was the absolute and total destruction of the Temple, which indeed happened in that very generation.

Jesus was predicting the fate of national Israel going forward, with a new move to the Gentile world with an entirely new and different kind of temple. Israel would suffer the greatest and longest punishment in their history, the Great Tribulation--an exile that has spanned the entire NT period.

But the major focus in his Discourse was on the imminent fall of the Jewish Temple with its religion, Judaism. This would open the door to a system that invites all peoples, and not just the Jewish People.

The AoD was the Roman Army that initiated Israel's long period of Great Tribulation. It will finally end at Christ's return.

God will return to Israel, but in the process have to eliminate all Jews who stand in the way. Israel will be restored to being God's People along with all of the Gentile Peoples who have now entered in, as well.

Of course Jesus was speaking to His disciples of that particular generation, but what Jesus spoke was for all generations as even today we are taught many of the same things that were all yet future events in Matthew 24. There were many new generations within the 40 years following the day of the Olivet Discourse after the death and resurrection of Christ that the Apostles preached to establishing the body of Christ.

Yes, Jesus was speaking about the Temple that was destroyed in 70AD, but also about our bodies, both Jew and Gentile, now being the Temple of God, 1Corinthians 6:19-20, Galatians 3:25-29. Jesus first foretells the destruction of the Temple and continues to answer the questions the Disciples ask of Him showing them the signs of the end of the age, the abomination of desolation and His second coming.

Matthew 24:13 says that those who endure until the end shall be saved. This means enduring all the trials and tribulations that this world will bring against us for the sake of our witness and testimony of Christ, Acts 14:22, Rev 2:10. The end means the end of our days here on this present earth when those in the grave and we who are still alive at His coming will then be caught up to Christ and are saved at that time as we have endured all things and never gave up our faith in Christ.

God's word never said we would not go through trials or tribulations, but through many trials and tribulations if we endure until the end then we will see the Kingdom of God, Acts 14:22, as we are all called into discipleship as we share our witness and testimony with those who have not yet repented and turned back to God. Below are twenty reasons why God allows us to go through trials and tribulations so that we will always remain in His will.

It has always been the Roman government as even today the revived Roman government is still working, but a mystery to many who have no understanding.

Those Jews or Gentiles will have themselves eliminated from being with Jesus when He returns and will be destroyed and cast into the lake of fire as they have no faith in God or His Son Christ
Jesus, Rev 20:15.

 

[RandyK]

Of course Jesus was speaking to His disciples of that particular generation, but what Jesus spoke was for all generations as even today we are taught many of the same things that were all yet future events in Matthew 24.

There were many OT prophecies that spoke to historical nations in the time the prophecies were given. Even these historically fulfilled prophecies are said to be for us today, even though they do not apply directly to us.

What Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse was an historical prophecy directed at then-current Israel and extended to apply to Israel's future in the NT era. It was primarily an Israeli prophecy.

And yet, as you say, all of this prophecy applies to us today. I just don't believe much of it applies directly to us today since it was directed primarily at Israel.

So, I believe the "generation" Jesus referred to was directed at the 40-year time period extending from Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And the prophecy extended into the future to indicate that Israel would continue to see "great tribulation" throughout the NT period.

How does this apply to all Christians today? It tells us that what God did with Israel is a lesson to all Christian nations, who accept the truth and then fall away. It leads to great judgment and long-lasting tribulations.

There were many new generations within the 40 years following the day of the Olivet Discourse after the death and resurrection of Christ that the Apostles preached to establishing the body of Christ.

Yes, Jesus was speaking about the Temple that was destroyed in 70AD, but also about our bodies, both Jew and Gentile, now being the Temple of God, 1Corinthians 6:19-20, Galatians 3:25-29. Jesus first foretells the destruction of the Temple and continues to answer the questions the Disciples ask of Him showing them the signs of the end of the age, the abomination of desolation and His second coming.

Jesus did not primarily speak of the NT temple of the Church, but of the destruction of Israel's OT Temple. But Jesus had already established that a temple would arise to enable worship anywhere in the world. He said this to the Woman at the Well.

Matthew 24:13 says that those who endure until the end shall be saved. This means enduring all the trials and tribulations that this world will bring against us for the sake of our witness and testimony of Christ, Acts 14:22, Rev 2:10. The end means the end of our days here on this present earth when those in the grave and we who are still alive at His coming will then be caught up to Christ and are saved at that time as we have endured all things and never gave up our faith in Christ.

God's word never said we would not go through trials or tribulations, but through many trials and tribulations if we endure until the end then we will see the Kingdom of God, Acts 14:22, as we are all called into discipleship as we share our witness and testimony with those who have not yet repented and turned back to God. Below are twenty reasons why God allows us to go through trials and tribulations so that we will always remain in His will.

It has always been the Roman government as even today the revived Roman government is still working, but a mystery to many who have no understanding.

Those Jews or Gentiles will have themselves eliminated from being with Jesus when He returns and will be destroyed and cast into the lake of fire as they have no faith in God or His Son Christ
Jesus, Rev 20:15.

 

[for_his_glory]

There were many OT prophecies that spoke to historical nations in the time the prophecies were given. Even these historically fulfilled prophecies are said to be for us today, even though they do not apply directly to us.

What Jesus gave in the Olivet Discourse was an historical prophecy directed at then-current Israel and extended to apply to Israel's future in the NT era. It was primarily an Israeli prophecy.

And yet, as you say, all of this prophecy applies to us today. I just don't believe much of it applies directly to us today since it was directed primarily at Israel.

So, I believe the "generation" Jesus referred to was directed at the 40-year time period extending from Jesus to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. And the prophecy extended into the future to indicate that Israel would continue to see "great tribulation" throughout the NT period.

How does this apply to all Christians today? It tells us that what God did with Israel is a lesson to all Christian nations, who accept the truth and then fall away. It leads to great judgment and long-lasting tribulations.

Jesus did not primarily speak of the NT temple of the Church, but of the destruction of Israel's OT Temple. But Jesus had already established that a temple would arise to enable worship anywhere in the world. He said this to the Woman at the Well.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

What God had the Prophets and Apostles write was for the past, present and future as God's instruction in all His righteousness that we will not get carried away by all the false doctrines that are out there that could deceive the very elect of God if possible. Many prophecies have been fulfilled, but many yet to come before Jesus returns on the last day and we are then caught up to Him.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

 

[RandyK]

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

What God had the Prophets and Apostles write was for the past, present and future as God's instruction in all His righteousness that we will not get carried away by all the false doctrines that are out there that could deceive the very elect of God if possible. Many prophecies have been fulfilled, but many yet to come before Jesus returns on the last day and we are then caught up to Him.

Act 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
Act 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
Act 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

There are particulars that distinguish between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant. While it is true that God doesn't change, it is nevertheless true that He has applied different covenants with their own set of particulars.

God has not required attention to a physical temple in Jerusalem at all times, but only during a certain period in Israel's history. At the same time God has always had a temple, of sorts, in heaven, where He has been properly worshiped by angels, and where His redemptive acts towards men have been justified and explained.

But this never precluded the existence of both heavenly temple and earthly temple during a certain period in Israel's history. Both co-existed during the period of the Old Covenant, and both were equally valid.

The temporary failure of Israel under the Old Covenant does not preclude Israel's ultimate salvation as a nation under the New Covenant, even without the earthly Temple and its worship. Israel's temporary demise has simply been the worst punishment in their history, and no previous punishment under the Old Covenant ketp them from being restored.

Neither will Israel's current punishment under the New Covenant prevent them from entering into this New Covenant and being restored in the future, when Christ returns. Israel may justifiably turn to the New Temple in heaven for their worship, viewing their past worship under the Law at the Old Temple simply a steppingstone in their advance towards final national salvation.

The Olivet Discourse predicted this process when Jesus predicted the imminent destruction of the Old Earthly Temple, followed by a long period of Israeli punishment. This was an Israeli prophecy, viewing the rising international Church as occurring in tandem with this event.

 

[for_his_glory]

RandyK This thread is not about the destruction of the Temple nor is it about the Old or New Covenant. It's about all the generations from the time of the Olivet Discourse up to the second coming of Christ in what He has given all of us beginning with the Disciples.

The Disciples asked Jesus three questions, Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The first thing Jesus told them was about the destruction of the Temple that was past in 70AD as there will never be another Temple built that God will honor.

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The second thing Jesus told them about was all those things that will come to pass from that point on before He returns and about the abomination that will make all things desolate , but to take heed that no man deceive you/us, Matthew 24:3-28.

The third answer to their questions was about His second coming and what to watch for so we will not be taken as a thief in the night as no one knows the day or the hour Jesus will return, but will be like that of Noah's days, Matthew 24:29-51.

What Jesus gave the Disciples as they sat on the mount of Olives began with that generation extending throughout all generations up to the time of the return of Christ on the last day.

 

[RandyK]

RandyK This thread is not about the destruction of the Temple nor is it about the Old or New Covenant. It's abot all the generations from the time of the Olivet Discourse up to the second coming of Christ in what He has given all of us beginning with the Disciples.

I made the assumption that reference to "generation" was a reference to the Olivet Discourse.
Therefore, I have to address the O.D. as I interpret it, which does involve the Temple and the end of the OT era.

The Disciples asked Jesus three questions, Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

The first thing Jesus told them was about the destruction of the Temple that was past in 70AD as there will never be another Temple built that God will honor.

So now you're talking about the OT temple? I'm confused!

1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The NT Temple was not mentioned in connection with the "generation" mentioned in the O.D.

The second thing Jesus told them about was all those things that will come to pass from that point on before He returns and about the abomination that will make all things desolate , but to take heed that no man deceive you/us, Matthew 24:3-28.

This is your assumption and not what I personally believe Jesus was saying. I do not believe he was giving us a list of things to anticipate in order to know when he is returning. On the contrary he deemphasized knowing precisely when he would return.

I think it's critical to live every day for the Lord, and not just when we think he is about to come! That's why he emphasized the nearness of judgment in our lives because by his death and resurrection he made known to all what the basis of eternal life and eternal death was.

In believing that he is coming to do this we live each day in pursuit of pleasing him and thus preparing for his coming Kingdom.

The third answer to their questions was about His second coming and what to watch for so we will not be taken as a thief in the night as no one knows the day or the hour Jesus will return, but will be like that of Noah's days, Matthew 24:29-51.

What Jesus gave the Disciples as they sat on the mount of Olives began with that generation extending throughout all generations up to the time of the return of Christ on the last day.

I think Jesus was just talking about Israel and his own generation. Certainly, it would lead to generations of continuing punishment after 70 AD. But Jesus made it clear that his O.D. was all about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. This is just my opinion.

 

[for_his_glory]

I made the assumption that reference to "generation" was a reference to the Olivet Discourse.
Therefore, I have to address the O.D. as I interpret it, which does involve the Temple and the end of the OT era.

So now you're talking about the OT temple? I'm confused!

The NT Temple was not mentioned in connection with the "generation" mentioned in the O.D.

This is your assumption and not what I personally believe Jesus was saying. I do not believe he was giving us a list of things to anticipate in order to know when he is returning. On the contrary he deemphasized knowing precisely when he would return.

I think it's critical to live every day for the Lord, and not just when we think he is about to come! That's why he emphasized the nearness of judgment in our lives because by his death and resurrection he made known to all what the basis of eternal life and eternal death was.

In believing that he is coming to do this we live each day in pursuit of pleasing him and thus preparing for his coming Kingdom.

I think Jesus was just talking about Israel and his own generation. Certainly, it would lead to generations of continuing punishment after 70 AD. But Jesus made it clear that his O.D. was all about the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. This is just my opinion.

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Past, present and yet future before the return of Jesus is all explained in Matthew 24.

 

[RandyK]

Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Past, present and yet future before the return of Jesus is all explained in Matthew 24.

Yes, the questions the Disciples asked Jesus indicated they were all messed up, jumbling the various events together into a single event. Perhaps they thought Jesus, in his 1st Coming, was about to proclaim that the Kingdom was coming immediately?

So, Jesus separated these events into their proper places, and detailed what they were and how they concerned the Disciples and the Jewish People as a whole. In their generation God would break His covenant with the Jewish People under the Law, indicating that by destroying the Temple and by dispersing Israel into all countries.

The punishment of Israel would continue for generations, as the people were dispersed in all countries. This is the definition Jesus gave of the "Great Tribulation." It would be the greatest, longest punishment in Israel's history, far surpassing the 70 years of the Babylonian Captivity.

As to his Coming, Jesus indicated that preparation for his Kingdom began then, at that very moment of time. Living for him began immediately. Preparation for the Kingdom began immediately whatt living in holiness by the New Covenant of Christ, which is Grace--not the Law of Moses.

Jesus warned his Disciples not to be fooled by preliminary claims that the Kingdom had come--false prophecies by false prophets. The Kingdom would come with the annihilation of the false and the wicked. It would be an unmistakable coming from heaven--not an earthly cultic movement.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, the questions the Disciples asked Jesus indicated they were all messed up, jumbling the various events together into a single event. Perhaps they thought Jesus, in his 1st Coming, was about to proclaim that the Kingdom was coming immediately?

So, Jesus separated these events into their proper places, and detailed what they were and how they concerned the Disciples and the Jewish People as a whole. In their generation God would break His covenant with the Jewish People under the Law, indicating that by destroying the Temple and by dispersing Israel into all countries.

The punishment of Israel would continue for generations, as the people were dispersed in all countries. This is the definition Jesus gave of the "Great Tribulation." It would be the greatest, longest punishment in Israel's history, far surpassing the 70 years of the Babylonian Captivity.

As to his Coming, Jesus indicated that preparation for his Kingdom began then, at that very moment of time. Living for him began immediately. Preparation for the Kingdom began immediately whatt living in holiness by the New Covenant of Christ, which is Grace--not the Law of Moses.

Jesus warned his Disciples not to be fooled by preliminary claims that the Kingdom had come--false prophecies by false prophets. The Kingdom would come with the annihilation of the false and the wicked. It would be an unmistakable coming from heaven--not an earthly cultic movement.

These are only your own speculations as you give no sources to back yourself up with.

 

[RandyK]

These are only your own speculations as you give no sources to back yourself up with.

Which points are you questioning? I made more than one point. Are you questioning *all* of the points?

 

[for_his_glory]

Which points are you questioning? I made more than one point. Are you questioning *all* of the points?

I'm not questioning anything, but only to ask you for your sources you use to make your points. I do not believe anything one says if they can not back themselves up with scripture.

 

[RandyK]

Luke 21.20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."

I have posted this passage over and over again, proving that the Olivet Discourse is a "Jewish Prophecy." And yet, it is regularly ignored simply because it does not comport with current prophetic interpretations that are popular in our Christian culture. It proves that the "Great Tribulation" is not the Reign of Antichrist but rather, the Jewish Diaspora that has been taking place over the last 2000 years.

I've heard every argument against this and have found them to be unsatisfactory. But don't say I have no proof for my so-called "speculative interpretations." I do--I've posted them endlessly.

 

[RandyK]

Did people of Jesus' day confuse when the Messiah would come? Yes. He was expected to come with his Kingdom immediately.

Luke 19.11 While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once.

In Jesus' view, the Kingdom of God would be represented, prematurely, by Jesus coming as Messiah, destined to die as an atonement (see Dan 9 and Isa 53). So, the Kingdom "came upon" Israel, via Jesus' person and Gospel, but the Kingdom itself remained "near," via access to it through Jesus--it was not yet "here."

 

[RandyK]

All 3 synoptic Gospels portrayed the main issue behind the Olivet Discourse as being the destruction of Herod's Temple. Why there is any question about this I cannot fathom? Clearly, Luke indicates that this event, being in Jesus' generation, would lead to a long punishment of the Jewish People by exile.

Some question whether the 3 accounts are the same or different? But all 3 speak of the Jewish "great tribulation" and of the destruction of the Temple, which are seen in Matthew and Mark as caused by the "abomination of desolation."

In Dan 9 this AoD is linked to the destruction of the "city and the sanctuary" in the generation in which Messiah is "cut off." See Dan 9.27. This was the very view of the early Church Fathers (predominantly), even if modern prophetic views are at odds with it.

 

[for_his_glory]

So, you believe that everything that has been written in the Bible is only for the Jews and Israel?

 

[RandyK]

So, you believe that everything that has been written in the Bible is only for the Jews and Israel?

Of course not. It's important, however, to note that while Jesus ministered on earth he was still under the covenant of Law. Under this system, the Jewish People were the "chosen race."

At the same time, Jesus anticipated his resurrection and the expansion of the Gospel into all nations, making all nations "chosen races" when they come under the New Covenant of Christ.

What Jesus taught the Jews while still under the Law instructs us in the New Testament by way of "principle." The New Covenant in its Gentile inclusion remained a "mystery" as long as the Old Covenant of Law remained in effect.

 

[for_his_glory]

Of course not. It's important, however, to note that while Jesus ministered on earth he was still under the covenant of Law. Under this system, the Jewish People were the "chosen race."

At the same time, Jesus anticipated his resurrection and the expansion of the Gospel into all nations, making all nations "chosen races" when they come under the New Covenant of Christ.

What Jesus taught the Jews while still under the Law instructs us in the New Testament by way of "principle." The New Covenant in its Gentile inclusion remained a "mystery" as long as the Old Covenant of Law remained in effect.

Not talking about old or new covenants, but that of Jesus answering the three questions placed before Him of all things from their time unto the coming of the Lord in all things that must come to pass. First given to the Jew/Israel and for all who have been grafted into the branch as all being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, Romans 11:11-24; Colossians 1:18-20.