No Pretrib Rapture

[Consecrated Life]

There will be a third Temple built.
The anti-christ will see to it as world leader
The anti-christ will settle all disputes over the most disputed piece of land on earth and the Jews will once again be conducting their daily sacrifice .
The Jews will be clueless that the Spirit of God does not dwell in this rebuilt Temple .
Just as it did not matter a bit to them as they were using the last Temple for the daily sacrifice after the Spirit of God had long gone, and after they had executed Jesus as well.

Again, what does this have to do with a pretrib Rapture? If you can not stay on topic then please start your own as I will no longer reply to off topic post from you.

Look at all the Christian organizations that have come into action in our day as result of one single Hamas attack on Israel .
I myself am a member of one Christian/Jewish support organization

How can Satan's man himself be causing all this activity to be taking place in Jerusalem unencumbered by a world of Christians who know exactly what is the end result of Anti-Christ setting up the Jews for the slaughter.
What is this world full of Christians doing to sound the alarm broadcasting the Words of Jesus
Why is there not a word mentioned of them and their pro-active efforts to interfere with the plans of the Anti-Christ and warn the Jews
Why is there not a word mentioned of them doing anything at all ?
What kind of Christians are these?

 

[hawkman]

Moderator note : Stay on the subject which is ,

No Pretrib Rapture​

Or start a new thread on the third temple or whatever it is that is not

No Pretrib Rapture​

 

[Philo]

I did read your article and like I said I agree in parts and disagree in parts. I do believe that Revelation is in a chronological order, especially if you read Matthew 24 as an outline of events that Jesus explained, but in more detail in Revelations.

Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

I'm not saying I am right and you are wrong, but that we see it differently.

I am familiar with that passage, and remember it being compared to the seals mentioned in Revelation.

If I may ask, since we see things differently, what do you believe the 7th Trumpet means, and how do you reconcile the similarities between the verses?

 

[Philo]

The bowl judgements are the last of Gods judgments and the judgements that plunge the beasts kingdom into darkness.
The beast, the angel of the Abyss, currently bound is released in the days of the sounding of the 5th trump of God. The one noted who overpowers and kills Gods two witnesses as we read in REV 11.

So from the 5th to 7th trump calls of God is the reign of the beast and runs concurrently with the 7 bowl judgments. The beast makes war with the saints and is successful until His appointed 42 months come to a end for God cuts short those days for the sake of the elect.

REV 16:15 - a coming of the Lord to end all tribulation and user in everlasting righteousness.

The harvest is at the very end. The wheat and weeds.

“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

29;“‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”


No teaching about any wheat being gathered earlier then that harvest.
The gathering is on the last day from the ends of the heavens to the ends of the earth. The resurrection of us all and those left alive on earth caught up so they too may be clothed with immortality as flesh and blood can not inherit the eternal kingdom God promised to those who love and obey Him.

Therefore those not raised on this day must be those who suffer.

4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection

Randy

Not sure if you read the article I linked to, but, in it I demonstrate that the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls run concurrently to each other in their sequential order.

As for the the parable of the wheat and the tares, I agree that Jesus is teaching that there isn't a pre-tribulation rapture. The rapture takes place at the end of the tribulation period, when 7th trumpet is blown and the 7th bowl is poured out. This is confirmed in scripture, see the following verse:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." -- 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

 

[for_his_glory]

I am familiar with that passage, and remember it being compared to the seals mentioned in Revelation.

If I may ask, since we see things differently, what do you believe the 7th Trumpet means, and how do you reconcile the similarities between the verses?

Rev 11:15-17

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.

Here we see much rejoicing in heaven for the time is now that the mystery of God will be finished as he declared this to the prophets, Revelation 10:7. God will make an end to all sinful abominations here on earth against His people as His mighty power will reign as now the blood of the martyred saints will be avenged. God is about to destroy the enemy for eternity and all the Kingdoms or nations of the world will now have become the Kingdoms and nations of God and no man will ever be able to take them out of Gods hands again, John 10:27, 28. The time of Gods longsuffering in His patience for those who need to repent, 2 Peter 3:9, has now come to an end and all glory and honor is given to His name.

Rev 16:17-21

The third and final woe is about to begin as the seven angels have been made ready to pour out the last seven vial judgments or as some use the word bowl judgments of Gods fierce anger against those who have blasphemed His name and refuse to repent before the return of Christ.

The seven trumpet judgments are to make man realize through the witness and testimony of the gospel that is being preached to them during this time of Gods wrath they need to repent and come back to Gods grace and their dependence on God as He would that none should perish, 2 Peter 3:9, 2 Chronicles 7:14.

The seven vial judgments are the righteousness of Gods judgment on those who refuse to repent. They have taken the mark of the beast and follow after the image of the beast as they bow down to their false doctrines and gods denying and blaspheming the sovereign God of all creation as their hearts have been hardened, Hebrews 3:15. They have made their choice to drink the wine as they take from the cup of Gods final wrath even though they have been warned to repent.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

That's the problem that leads to misunderstanding the word of God as when one implies something that is not written without other supporting scripture then it causes one to add to or take away from truth.

BTW, this thread is about no pretrib Rapture. If you would like to start a new thread about mystery Babylon tag me in and will discuss it in full there.

How about just no rapture, period. "No pretrib rapture" is a misleading statement that suggests the alternative of mid or post trib rapture, but what dispensationalists preach as the "sudden removal of the church" is actually pointing to the resurrection of the church upon Christ's return.

 

[Corn Pop]

There will be a third Temple built.
The anti-christ will see to it as world leader
The anti-christ will settle all disputes over the most disputed piece of land on earth and the Jews will once again be conducting their daily sacrifice .
The Jews will be clueless that the Spirit of God does not dwell in this rebuilt Temple .
Just as it did not matter a bit to them as they were using the last Temple for the daily sacrifice after the Spirit of God had long gone, and after they had executed Jesus as well.

Where is there any mention in scripture of a 3rd temple built by human hands?. John was told to measure the temple and that was when it was still standing, and the only thing in scripture that mentions any type of 3rd temple after Jesus said not one stone will be upon another and 40 years later in 70ad the temple was levelled and the great city Jerusalem was burnt with fire by the Romans and the believers in Judea fleed for the hills, the only 3rd temple in scripture is the Kingdom of God through Christ.

 

[Randy]

Randy

Not sure if you read the article I linked to, but, in it I demonstrate that the 7 trumpets and 7 bowls run concurrently to each other in their sequential order.

As for the the parable of the wheat and the tares, I agree that Jesus is teaching that there isn't a pre-tribulation rapture. The rapture takes place at the end of the tribulation period, when 7th trumpet is blown and the 7th bowl is poured out. This is confirmed in scripture, see the following verse:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." -- 1 Corinthians 15:51-52

Should we pull up the weeds? NOT should we harvest the wheat.

NO -Let them grow up together until the harvest.

Jesus ends tribulation His coming.

Rev 16:15 - The battle on the great "Day" of God almighty.

The great battle
The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.14They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15“Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!

2thess 2:8
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming.

If anyone who is in the faith is not alive on earth at that coming they would have escaped through the death of the body. No pre harvest is noted. They will be raised first then those who are alive on the earth on that last day will be caught up and clothed with immortality.

 

[Consecrated Life]

How about just no rapture, period. "No pretrib rapture" is a misleading statement that suggests the alternative of mid or post trib rapture, but what dispensationalists preach as the "sudden removal of the church" is actually pointing to the resurrection of the church upon Christ's return.

If the Church was present during the tribulation why do they go into disobedient, silent hiding, disobeying the Lord's command at this Most paramount point of History preaching the Word and confronting Anti-Chrst more fervently than ever before as the Anti-Christ maneuvers his way up to world power ?

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Disobeying Jesus and Never Preaching the Word As Jesus commanded , giving out the Word in the face of the Anti-Christ, both during his rise to power, or during this first period of "false Peace" he establishes in his rule ?
Zilch !
Not one instance in scripture of the Anti-Christ being confronted in any way as he goes about his business of establishing world power unencumbered as the world's hundreds of millions of Christians sit on their hands.
Not one instance of the World's Christians supposedly watching the whole thing slowly develop getting in the face of the coming Holocost they are fully aware is coming ?
Where are all the protesting , confronting with His Word millions of Christians as this Satan's scenario develops over time.
Let me guess, they are all playing pickleball ?
Or have they just gone into hiding like tens of millions of scared rabbits ?
Which can it be ?
World rule that has taken months for the Anti-Christ to set up and yet there is not a Word of Bible's predictions of his plans confronting him and warning unbelievers thru every form of media , including daily mass in his face protests ?
The world's once obedient an emboldened Christians, now turned into silent in hiding spineless disobedient jellyfish as the Anti-Christ goes about the methodical business of setting up world rule free from any troublesome Christians ?
Where have they all gone hiding ?
Why is there not one word in scripture of the outrage and confrontation of the world's hundreds of millions of Christians on a massive scale as Satan methodically builds brick by brick his world empire recorded in scripture?
Are they just being disobedient to Christ's command to confront evil ?
As well as being Disobedient in preaching the Word Of God to the Jews in particular at this paramount point of History that these Christians have seen coming in slow motion for months as the Anti-Christ ascends to world power Jesus commanded as they are being set up for the mother of all Holocosts ?

 

[for_his_glory]

How about just no rapture, period. "No pretrib rapture" is a misleading statement that suggests the alternative of mid or post trib rapture, but what dispensationalists preach as the "sudden removal of the church" is actually pointing to the resurrection of the church upon Christ's return.

Just reading these scriptures below show that there is no secret quiet pretrib catching up of the body (Church) of Christ as every eye will see Him coming with the clouds after the 3 1/2 year reign of the last antichrist.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Just reading these scriptures below show that there is no secret quiet pretrib catching up of the body (Church) of Christ as every eye will see Him coming with the clouds after the 3 1/2 year reign of the last antichrist.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So why are elect having to be "gathered from heaven " if they are on earth with everybody else ?

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[for_his_glory]

So why are elect having to be "gathered from heaven " if they are on earth with everybody else ?

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Full context is the key to understanding as there are three types of heaven.

There are three heavens:
First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).

Matthew 24:31 is speaking about the 1st heaven being that of atmosphere as the angels are sent out to gather all of those who are Christ own on this earth.


John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Full context is the key to understanding as there are three types of heaven.

There are three heavens:
First heaven - The firmament, Earths Atmosphere -which is the immediate sky, where the “fowls of the heaven” (Genesis 2:19; 7:3,23; Psalms 8:8, etc.), “the eagles of heaven” (Lamentations 4:19), it is our atmosphere that surrounds the earth.

Second Heaven - Outer Space, the starry heavens (Deuteronomy 17:3; Jeremiah 8:2; Matthew 24:29).
The second heaven is the starry heavens, where our atmosphere ends. It is the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars are fixed in orbit.

Third Heaven - This is where God, Jesus and the holy angels dwell plus the very breath of just men dwell as when we die it is that breath that returns back to God. It is called “The heaven of heavens,” (Deuteronomy 10:14; 1 Kings 8:27; Psalms 115:16; 148:4). (1Kings 8:27) - “The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you. The third heaven is beyond the space and stars. Where no man has seen by telescope. This heaven is the dwelling-place of God (John 3:13).

So which of the three heavens is the church in now ?

 

[Randy]

If the Church was present during the tribulation why do they go into disobedient, silent hiding, disobeying the Lord's command at this Most paramount point of History preaching the Word and confronting Anti-Chrst more fervently than ever before as the Anti-Christ maneuvers his way up to world power ?

I am saved by grace through faith.
The beast will make war with the Saints.
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.

I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Disobeying Jesus and Never Preaching the Word As Jesus commanded , giving out the Word in the face of the Anti-Christ, both during his rise to power, or during this first period of "false Peace" he establishes in his rule ?
Zilch !
Not one instance in scripture of the Anti-Christ being confronted in any way as he goes about his business of establishing world power unencumbered as the world's hundreds of millions of Christians sit on their hands.
Not one instance of the World's Christians supposedly watching the whole thing slowly develop getting in the face of the coming Holocost they are fully aware is coming ?
Where are all the protesting , confronting with His Word millions of Christians as this Satan's scenario develops over time.
Let me guess, they are all playing pickleball ?
Or have they just gone into hiding like tens of millions of scared rabbits ?
Which can it be ?
World rule that has taken months for the Anti-Christ to set up and yet there is not a Word of Bible's predictions of his plans confronting him and warning unbelievers thru every form of media , including daily mass in his face protests ?
The world's once obedient an emboldened Christians, now turned into silent in hiding spineless disobedient jellyfish as the Anti-Christ goes about the methodical business of setting up world rule free from any troublesome Christians ?
Where have they all gone hiding ?
Why is there not one word in scripture of the outrage and confrontation of the world's hundreds of millions of Christians on a massive scale as Satan methodically builds brick by brick his world empire recorded in scripture?
Are they just being disobedient to Christ's command to confront evil ?
As well as being Disobedient in preaching the Word Of God to the Jews in particular at this paramount point of History that these Christians have seen coming in slow motion for months as the Anti-Christ ascends to world power Jesus commanded as they are being set up for the mother of all Holocosts ?

The gifts of the Spirit are not all the same and they are given for works of service so it's by the grace of God not their own doing. No room to brag.It should be clear to all that the gospel is preached to ALL nations to this very day.

There is no gathering before the 2nd coming on the last day. A gathering from the ends of the heavens to the ends of the earth. With those left alive on earth caught up as well so as to be clothed with immortality as flesh and blood can not inherit the eternal kingdom god promised to those who love and obey Him.

 

[Consecrated Life]

I am saved by grace through faith.
The beast will make war with the Saints.

All this you speak of occurs after the Anti-Christ betrays the years of peace Anti-Christ has established between the Israel and the nations who sought to destroy Israel and the Jews, and people are being dragged before to anti-Christ to either submit or die.

I am speaking to the years prior to all of that as the Anti-Christ is working His way to power with claims of peace and tranquility , and the following period where the world falls for His claims and He actually does establish peace for the Jews.
What are all of these strident outspoken Christians doing during all these years ?
Not a word of them protesting or confronting anti-christ during this period of peace is spoken of in scripture.
Why is that ?

What are all these enlightened Christians doing as the Anti-Christ works his way to the top.
I am speaking of the years of peace Anti-Christ establishes between Israel and the middle east nations that once sought to destroy Israel.
What are all these millions of Christians doing during these years of Anti-Christ's established world peace ?
During this period of "Peace" Why is there not one word of the world's Christian population confronting Anti-Christ daily at his headquarters in massive protests and media campaigns, daily pulling back the curtain on the real identity of Anti-Christ as told in the scripture ?
What are all these Christians doing standing by silent and mute like scared rabbits before the hell they know is coming breaks out ?
In full disobedience of the Lord's command to speak out against the ultimate evil personified .

 

[for_his_glory]

So which of the three heavens is the church in now ?

The Church, being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, are still here on earth either alive or asleep in their graves as we wait until the coming of the Lord.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[Consecrated Life]

The Church, being the body of Christ with He being the head of the body, are still here on earth either alive or asleep in their graves as we wait until the coming of the Lord.


Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Again, why does the scripture say these people are being gathered from someplace in the atmosphere ,(or the first Heaven as you cite ). when you now say they are:


"are still here on earth" .... ( for his glory ) ?

Still on earth where every eye, including theirs , is beholding His arrival ?

Rev 1:7
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him..."

Why do the angels need to gather them from one end of heaven to the other when they are looking right at Him from earth as Jesus is coming directly to them?

 

[for_his_glory]

Again, why does the scripture say these people are being gathered from someplace in the atmosphere ,(or the first Heaven as you cite ). when you now say they are:


"are still here on earth" .... ( for his glory ) ?

Still on earth where every eye, including theirs , is beholding His arrival ?

Rev 1:7
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him..."

Why do the angels need to gather them from one end of heaven to the other when they are looking right at Him from earth as Jesus is coming directly to them?

Have you ever heard the expression "all things under heaven". Under heaven means those things that happen on the earth.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The four winds, four corners of the Earth are North, South, East and West. One end of heaven to the other is the four corners on Earth that those who are Christ own will be caught up from to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

 

[Consecrated Life]

Have you ever heard the expression "all things under heaven". Under heaven means those things that happen on the earth.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The four winds, four corners of the Earth are North, South, East and West. One end of heaven to the other is the four corners on Earth that those who are Christ own will be caught up from to meet Jesus in the air, 1Thessalonians 4:13-18.

The scripture you quoted does not say "under heaven" as you have now switched the word given to fit your need.
It says " OF HEAVEN " not "under heaven"
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
You are changing the words of scripture that do not exist.
This is what you end up doing having to do when you make things up apart from actual scripture.
My question stands .
If these non-raptured Christian are standing on earth watch His coming to them along with every eye , why would the angels be required to be gathering them from one end of heaven to the other?
These Christians occupying this vast space of heaven , FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER, are obviously not company to the eyes on earth that are beholding His coming,
Thus Requiring the angels to fetch them from far afield in vast expanse of heaven.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Additionally Jesus Christ Himself has given His Word that when He collects His church from topside earth He will personally be the first to greet them and receive them without any angel help needed.

John 14:3
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

 

[Fish153]

I believe that there is a great misunderstanding about the return of Christ and that is why some do not believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture. First I want to ask a question. Are all born-again believers the "BODY" of Christ?? Yes---they clearly are. Jesus says he is the head---and when one member of the body suffers they ALL SUFFER TOGETHER. So, how is it possible that Jesus will leave PART of his BODY on earth to suffer the Tribulation? Someone above said that part of the churches will go through the Tribulation and some will not. This makes no sense at all if you realize that ALL believers make up Christ's BODY. So, if some are left on earth to suffer will the rest of the body in Heaven suffer too? It says when one suffers all suffer doesn't it?

No---the church will not even be on the earth during the tribulation. The confusion comes in because many do not see that the 2nd coming of Christ comes in (2) PHASES: 1. Jesus comes back Himself to rapture the church. He comes FOR HIS SAINTS. 2. After the Rapture there is a 7 year Tribulation (the last 3-1/2 years of this are called THE GREAT TRIBULATION).

During this Tribulation THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST takes place in Heaven, while the Tribulation takes place on earth. 3. Crowns are handed out to the faithful. Some are in great sadness as they are "saved as though by fire" (1 Cor. 3) and do not receive crowns. But the faithful do receive crowns for their service. The faithful then return with Christ to the surface of the earth to destroy the Anti-Christ. This is the SECOND PHASE where Jesus returns WITH HIS SAINTS. He came FOR his saints in the FIRST phase. Now he returns in the SECOND phase WITH his saints as Enoch states: "The Lord comes WITH ten thousands of his saints..." and metes out Judgment on the Anti-Christ and Jesus comes to take his throne to start the MILLENIAL REIGN (1000 years) on earth. Those judged faithful return with him to earth and reign WITH him for a thousand years. But those who were not given crowns, and not judged faithful in service, are still part of Christ's BODY, so they never went through Tribulation. The CHURCH is a distinctive group of people with a specific number, called and chosen. THE CHURCH are believers from Pentecost to the Rapture. The people saved during the Tribulation are NOT THE CHURCH. They are "Tribulation Saints" and appear before the throne holding palm fronds (we see this in Revelation--they are a great multitude--but they are NOT the Church). The Church is a distinct group of people that make up Christ's body as his BRIDE.

So, the Church will NOT go through the Tribulation. Paul even states that God has not chosen us to wrath, but to grace and salvation.