Bible Study Getting Out of the Sin-Confession Cycle.

[Hopeful 2]

I'm a word for word kinda guy.

He writes in present tense, he said I do, not I did, he said I see, not I seen, he said I want, not I wanted, he said it does not, not it did not, he said I want to, not I wanted to.
He said what a wretched man I am, not I was.
He said this I keep on doing, not I kept on doing.

Words have power.

You are not reading it correctly and therfore not comprehending it correctly.

Some of Paul's Rom 7 verses are in the past-narrative tense.
I Googled past-narrative/present-narrative..."As the narrative tense, the present accommodates the past tense and all modal verb usage seamlessly. Use the past tense only when referring to a specific past that's either: wrong/no longer relevant, or of actual historical interest (e.g., when writing a review article)."
He is telling the story of his past.
What does Rom 7:5 say ?
"For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death."
He isn't walking in or after the "flesh" anymore !

BTW, Paul's lament about "this body of sin" was answered in Rom 6:6..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
And his lament about a law of sin in his members was answered in Rom 8:2..." For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Both the wretched man and the law of sin were from his past as a Jew, trying, unsuccessfully, to keep the Law of Moses.

His freedoms can be your freedoms !

 

[Humblepie]

For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.

 

[JLB]

Romans 6:1-7
1 What shall we say then? Are we to
continue in sin that grace may abound?
2 By no means! How can we who
died to sin still live in it?

​

I've encountered many Christians who have settled into the belief that the Christian life is just a long, unending cycle of sin>confession>sin>confession, over and over, lasting victory over sin an impossibility this side of the grave. They look around and see that their fellow believers are caught in the same sin>confession cycle that they're in and so, they are confirmed in their belief that the cycle is inevitable. This belief is further solidified by decades lived in the sin>confession cycle, despite frequent, heartfelt prayers to God to be delivered from it. There has been no deliverance, really, though there has been some slightly greater control over oneself that has developed (possibly).

And so, when believers who've lived like this and have grown hardened into the belief that there is no other way to live, hear of, or read, what the apostle Paul wrote in the verses above, they simply dismiss it. Whatever Paul meant, he can't have meant what he actually wrote. The believer hardened into the sin>confession cycle knows that Paul's got it wrong; though they've prayed and prayed and wrestled as hard as they could against it, their long experience unable to be free in any significant way from sin proves that Paul is wrong.

What, after all, is more real than our actual experience, right? What is more true than what happens to us in concrete, personal experience? Thinking in this way, the believer long-caught in the sin>confession cycle justifies their failure to have moved into an ever-increasingly holy life. In fact, they take a certain subtle pride in their spiritual perseverance, in their willingness to "get back up and continue the race," sometimes over and over in a single day. Their being wearily reconciled to the idea that the sin>confession cycle is the normal life of the Christian person is, in their minds, a sign of a spiritual veteran! This is, after all, what long, hard experience has taught them and nothing can be more sure than such experience.

Often, too, if there is some glimmer of understanding in a believer who's come to think that no real and increasing freedom from sin is possible that, maybe - just maybe - they've misunderstood how things work spiritually, well, the thought is quickly snuffed out. It's simply too painful to contemplate that all the time they've been walking with God, they've been doing so on a fundamentally mistaken basis. Pride won't allow such an admission. And the wasted time and effort! No, it's better, they think, to just continue on.

But as the words of the apostle Paul make very clear, the sin>confession>sin>confession cycle is unnatural to Christian living. The truly born-again child of God has been freed, not just from the penalty of their sin, but from the power of the Source of all their sin: The Old Self.

Romans 6:6-7
6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
7 For one who has died has been set free from sin.

In being made a "new creature in Christ" (2 Corinthians 5:17) every Christian has been crucified spiritually with Jesus, united with him in his death, burial and resurrection. When he died at Calvary, they died with him to their Old Self, to the power of the pathologically-selfish person they are apart from God. How, exactly? The Bible never says. It tells us what has happened and when, but not how. We don't need to know, though, the mechanics of our spiritual union with Jesus in his death, burial and resurrection. The crucial thing to understand is that it is so, that it is the truth that, through our union with Christ in his death, burial and resurrection, we have been freed from the power of who we were before we were saved and made a "new creation."

About this, Paul makes quite a big deal, pointing out this dead-to-sin truth, not only in his letter to the believers at Rome, but repeatedly in his various letters to the Early Church:

Galatians 2:20
20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:24
24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Galatians 6:14
14 But far be it from me to boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

Colossians 2:11-13
11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

Colossians 3:1-3
1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.
3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

This is the normal Christian life. Regular descent into sin is aberrant behaviour for born-again people, it is to act entirely contrary to who they've become in Jesus Christ, to what is true of them as those who have been "made dead to sin and alive unto God" (Romans 6:11). And yet, many Christians sin quite regularly and often for decades, settling into the resulting flat greyness of a life fouled and deadened by their sin. And being long in this circumstance, horribly, they grow unable to accept that there is a far, far better way to live. But, God's word is plain as day:

Romans 6:11-14
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Continued below.

“Therefore you shall be careful to do as the LORD your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. You shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God has commanded you,… Deuteronomy 5:32-33

There is a balance between the teachings of “sinless perfection” and “OSAS”.

The right hand ditch is legalism and the left hand ditch is lawlessness.


Ironically enough they have one thing in common;

They both teach that they have no need to confess their sins as
1 John 1:9 teaches us.

• Sinless perfection believes that they are sinless and confessing sin is for the unbeliever.

• The OSAS crowd believes that all their future sins are forgiven so there is no need to confess their sin to be forgiven.

JLB

 

[JLB]

So, practically, what does all of the foregoing mean? When I'm faced with temptation to resume the sin>confession cycle, to fall again into sin, what do I do? In Romans 6, the apostle Paul gives two basic commands we are always to follow when confronted by the invitation to sin:

1.) By faith, count on the truth of your union with Christ and the resulting freedom from Self and sin. (Romans 6:11)

2.) Yield (or present) yourself to God as His humble bond-servant. (Romans 6:13)

Every sin always invites us to do the same two things. Whether it is a porn addiction, or a food addiction, or the impulse to become enraged, or to be lazy, or to be entertained with demonic/immoral things, or whatever, a born-again person always does the same two things when he sins: 1.) He denies who he is in Jesus, acting in a (sinful) manner contrary to his true, "new creation" identity as God's child and 2.) he stands in God's place in his life, following his own will and way rather than God's.

Because every sin always entails these two things, the apostle Paul addresses them directly and in so doing gives to us the core of God's "way of escape" (1 Corinthians 10:13) from the sin>confession cycle. So, then, when a Christian is, say, tempted to look at porn, the way of their escape from this temptation begins with rehearsing the truth about who they are in Christ: "I am dead to sin and alive unto God. My old Self and sin have no power over me."

On the heels of this declaration of the truth about oneself, conscious, explicit, perhaps even out-loud submission to God must follow. "God, please control my desires, thoughts and actions. Not my will but yours be done. I submit myself to your authority and control."

But, then, the tempting impulse immediately resumes. What now? It hasn't worked! The call to sin continues! The apostle Paul's "way of escape" is useless. Well, hang on. If the proper response to the temptation the first time it appeared was the above, why wouldn't it be the proper response the second, third, fourth and fifth time? You see, the Real Battle of Christian living isn't to force oneself to "live right," to make oneself act contrary to one's desires, but to STAY SUBMITTED TO GOD. All of what God has promised to do in the lives of His children is predicated on their constant surrender to His will and way, to the control of His Spirit.

Romans 8:14
14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Galatians 5:16,18
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh...

18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Romans 11:36 - 12:1
36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.

James 4:6-7
6 ...“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God...

James 4:10
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will exalt you.

1 Peter 5:5-6
5 ...“God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”
6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God so that at the proper time he may exalt you,

Micah 6:8
8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God?

God will never transform a rebel, which is what we are, born-again or not, when we are not consciously, constantly putting ourselves under His control.

But when we are walking with God as inferior to Superior, branch to Vine, sheep to Shepherd, child to heavenly Father, vessel and servant to Master, when God is the Boss, when He is our Lord and Ruler, then all that He is will fill us, and change us, and bring us into joyful, holy, daily fellowship with Himself. But God waits upon our conscious submission to Himself to make us like His Son, Jesus Christ. He will not impose Himself on us, He will not force us to His will and way; we must choose - by our constant submission to Him - God's holy life and transforming work.

When we've given over the "steering wheel" of our life to the Holy Spirit, he steers us into holiness and truth, going to work first upon our desires, the primal, directing core of our living, changing them, bringing them into proper proportion, dissolving evil desires and instilling new, godly desires in us. As he does, we come to desire what God desires for us, we hunger for His word, we want to be holy, we want to know God more and more, we want to love His Church and to share the increasingly awesome experience we have with Him with others. In all of this, we become more and more like Jesus (Romans 8:29), glorifying God as in inevitable result (1 Corinthians 10:31).

But first, there is the business of "possessing the land of promise" which always involves confronting and defeating the "great cities" and "giants" of sin that bar believers from the spiritual "land" in Jesus that is "overflowing with milk and honey." It turns out, though, the fight isn't actually ours to wage. We can't beat these opponents in-and-of ourselves; we're far too weak. We need God to fight for us, which He is quite willing to do - but on His terms, not ours. See above.

Perhaps the hardest thing to understand in all of what God does to bring about godliness in us is that He changes us, we don't change ourselves for Him. We really are just vessels in and through whom God moves, by the Holy Spirit manifesting His life and work in us.

Romans 8:13
13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Philippians 1:6
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

Philippians 4:13
13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.

2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Lord, the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:16
16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

Ephesians 6:10
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

Jude 1:24-25
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

God changes us; we can't ever change ourselves - not really, not in the way God intends we should be changed and for the purposes He desires to fulfill in our transformation. And so, when we finally see that a life lived in the endless sin>confession cycle is entirely unlike the life God intends for us to live with Him, and we begin to live in submission to Him and, by faith, stand unmoved upon what He says is true of us, we are astonished by the result. For this kind of life with God is exactly the opposite of the horrible, wrenching, sin-plagued experience we're used to.

As we fight the Real Battle of the Christian life and refuse to move out from under God's control, God's power is demonstrated in our life such that the terrible fight with temptation that we're used to is gone and we are moved in God's direction with such profundity and power that we often don't realize we are being moved. Only much later do we recognize that a crossroad of temptation is far behind and we've travelled with God further down the Narrow Way into holiness and fellowship with Himself. We aren't barely hanging by our fingernails, straining and striving to eke out each step toward God, our flesh, the World and the devil all blowing with gale force upon us and repeatedly knocking us flat. Instead, when God changes us, we "mount up with wings as eagles" and go "from strength to strength" (Isaiah 28:31; Psalm 84:5-7), laughing often in astonishment at how different, how much more enlivening and easy, it is to be transformed by God rather than by ourselves.

The way to break free from the bondage of the sin confession lifestyle is the way that Paul learned, which is to live according to the Spirit rather than the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

 

[Tenchi]

“Therefore you shall be careful to do as the LORD your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. You shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God has commanded you,… Deuteronomy 5:32-33

There is a balance between the teachings of “sinless perfection” and “OSAS”.

The right hand ditch is legalism and the left hand ditch is lawlessness.

Oh? The folks I know who subscribe to OSAS are among the most concerned about living holy lives that I know of. It is, then, a Strawman of the view of OSAS (or to the view of OSAS to which I hold, at least) to discard it as antinomian. It isn't.

“Therefore you shall be careful to do as the LORD your God has commanded you; you shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left. You shall walk in all the ways which the LORD your God has commanded you,… Deuteronomy 5:32-33

Romans 7:5-6
5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

Galatians 3:24-25
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

As the Jews of the OT amply demonstrated,

Romans 3:20
20 ...by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight...

In their regular turning from God to pagan idols, in their oft-repeated contravention of God's Law, the OT Israelites showed that the Law could not justify them, but only ultimately condemned them. And so, through Christ, God fashioned a "new and living way" (Hebrews 9-10:22) by which sinners could be justified by faith rather than the Law, reconciled to God, and thus able to "come boldly unto the throne of grace" (Hebrew 4:16; John 14:6; 2 Corinthians 5:21). Under this New Covenant circumstance, encompassing Jew and Gentile alike, God's commands to His Chosen People in Deuteronomy 5:32-33 have no real bearing.

Ironically enough they have one thing in common;

They both teach that they have no need to confess their sins as
1 John 1:9 teaches us.

??? This isn't true. I hold to OSAS very staunchly but I don't ignore 1 John 1:9. From where have you taken up your caricature of OSAS?

The OSAS crowd believes that all their future sins are forgiven so there is no need to confess their sin to be forgiven.

No. Not at all.

The way to break free from the bondage of the sin confession lifestyle is the way that Paul learned, which is to live according to the Spirit rather than the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17

Right. Which is essentially what I laid out in my OP.

 

[JLB]

Oh? The folks I know who subscribe to OSAS are among the most concerned about living holy lives that I know of. It is, then, a Strawman of the view of OSAS (or to the view of OSAS to which I hold, at least) to discard it as antinomian. It isn't.

The OSAS people I have been in discussion with, believe all their future sins have been forgiven, and therefore they believe they have no need to confess their sins and be forgiven.


Im sure there is a wide view and multiple variations of beliefs within that particular group.

 

[JLB]

Right. Which is essentially what I laid out in my OP.

Glad we can agree on something.

 

[Hopeful 2]

For there is not a just man on earth who does good
And does not sin.

Were that the truth, then Jesus accomplished nothing.
It would show that repentance from sin is false.
It would make void rebirth from God's seed.
It would deny the Holy Spirit any residence on earth.
It would insure that none are written in the book of life.

Thank God I know your opinion is untrue !

 

[donadams]

It doesn't matter if Christians are scattered or concentrated. Did you think the population density of Christians mattered somehow?

How do you define your word "AUTHORITY"? Authority over WHAT?



How do you define your word "CATCHUMEN"?


"CHRISTIAN" means "FOLLOWER OF CHRIST".

Are you a Christian, or a follower of Christ? How to tell the difference.

It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.

www.churchsimplified.org

Baptized HOW?



How do you know its referring to YOUR kind of "apostles" which you define to be catho lics?


Define your phrases, "spiritual fathers " and "pastors of our souls".

Catechumen is a neophyte just learning the faith

 

[donadams]

It doesn't matter if Christians are scattered or concentrated. Did you think the population density of Christians mattered somehow?

How do you define your word "AUTHORITY"? Authority over WHAT?



How do you define your word "CATCHUMEN"?


"CHRISTIAN" means "FOLLOWER OF CHRIST".

Are you a Christian, or a follower of Christ? How to tell the difference.

It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.

www.churchsimplified.org

Baptized HOW?



How do you know its referring to YOUR kind of "apostles" which you define to be catho lics?


Define your phrases, "spiritual fathers " and "pastors of our souls".

A Christian is a member of christ by faith and baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit
In the new covenant of grace and mercy

 

[donadams]

It doesn't matter if Christians are scattered or concentrated. Did you think the population density of Christians mattered somehow?

How do you define your word "AUTHORITY"? Authority over WHAT?



How do you define your word "CATCHUMEN"?


"CHRISTIAN" means "FOLLOWER OF CHRIST".

Are you a Christian, or a follower of Christ? How to tell the difference.

It was at Antioch that the believers were first called Christians.

www.churchsimplified.org

Baptized HOW?



How do you know its referring to YOUR kind of "apostles" which you define to be catho lics?


Define your phrases, "spiritual fathers " and "pastors of our souls".

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...


John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Authority over the church


Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!


Thks

 

[donadams]

Powerful Name of Jesus!

John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in theSon.

John 15:16
Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

Acts 4:30 By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus.

Acts 4:12
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name underheaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Philippians 2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a namewhich is above every name:

The Holy Name of Jesus!

Philippians 2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in-earth, and things under the earth;

Colossians 3:17
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.