[_ Old Earth _] Gideon and the fleece

[Blazin Bones]

Okay a child is born without favoring either, that I'll agree with. Here is the Problem. Humans have believed in a God longer than human have believed in no God. This makes atheism the new Concept.

 

[Featherbop]

Or at least the newer concept....

Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

 

[Blazin Bones]

Or at least the newer concept....

Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

I'll agree with that. I still would think that theists came first because the oldest human records suggest such.

 

[keebs]

Humans have believed in a God longer than human have believed in no God.

Nope. Humans are not born with the concept of God, therefore the first humans must not have believed in God at first. It's that simple. They may have converted later on in life, but God is an introduced concept.

Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

No one knows who/when the first human was...

I still would think that theists came first because the oldest human records suggest such.

No, the oldest human records suggest that theism was very popular, and that most people converted to theism once they understood it. That still doesn't make theism an innate concept.

 

[Featherbop]

[quote="Darck Marck":b7550]Or at least the newer concept....

Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

I'll agree with that. I still would think that theists came first because the oldest human records suggest such.[/quote:b7550]

That's true. Of course, I would think the atheists of today are much different than those of long ago, considering that atheism today is intertwined with many other beleifs, not simply dis-beleiving in God....

 

[keebs]

Because most atheists today are not content with blind disbelief.

 

[Featherbop]

Humans have believed in a God longer than human have believed in no God.

Nope. Humans are not born with the concept of God, therefore the first humans must not have believed in God at first. It's that simple. They may have converted later on in life, but God is an introduced concept.

[quote:5b27c]Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

No one knows who/when the first human was...

I still would think that theists came first because the oldest human records suggest such.

No, the oldest human records suggest that theism was very popular, and that most people converted to theism once they understood it. That still doesn't make theism an innate concept.[/quote:5b27c]

But humans do not start off as proffesing atheists. They have to know of God to disbeleive in Him....If theres no God, I see no point for atheists to exist....It would be the "norm" and thats all, no name to it. The people could not first be atheists if they had no God to disbeleive in....

 

[Blazin Bones]

Humans have believed in a God longer than human have believed in no God.

Nope. Humans are not born with the concept of God, therefore the first humans must not have believed in God at first. It's that simple. They may have converted later on in life, but God is an introduced concept.

[quote:449a6]Noone knows who/when the first atheist was....

No one knows who/when the first human was...

I still would think that theists came first because the oldest human records suggest such.

No, the oldest human records suggest that theism was very popular, and that most people converted to theism once they understood it. That still doesn't make theism an innate concept.[/quote:449a6]

The scrolls that make up the Bible are older than just about any other written human record we still have to day. The Bible says the first man was made not born. That man beleived in God. Although, since you don't accept the Bible as truth, you probably won't agree with this post either.

 

[Featherbop]

Because most atheists today are not content with blind disbelief.

Because they are satisfied with blind disbelief.

 

[Gary]

Most atheists have NOT considered all options. Theirs is mostly anti-Christian hatred. Try get any atheist to write a few paragraphs about their worldview. See if they are able to do that WITHOUT mentioning Christianity, the Bible, Jesus Christ or the church.

Why not try keebs?

Explain your worldview without a reference to Christianity.

IF you were born an atheist, then throw away all that Christian influence and write "naked" atheism. I challenge you to write a comprehensive worldview without mentioning Christianity, Christ and the Bible.

:bday: :bday:

It would also be interesting if you could write without mentioning God. Afterall, that is what you claimed your original "belief" was.

 

[Featherbop]

Seems reasonable enough. A christian should be able to write about his worldveiw, beleifs, etc. without mentioning atheist and atheism.

 

[Gary]

Even the original "Humanist Manifesto" mentioned theism.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought".

http://www.americanhumanist.org/about/manifesto1.html

That implies that theism was first.... "time has passed".

:-?

 

[Gary]

Good point.

I like the Westminster Confession of Faith (with Scriptural proofs obviously)

http://www.reformed.org/documents/wcf_w ... ndexf.html

 

[keebs]

Most atheists have NOT considered all options. Theirs is mostly anti-Christian hatred. Try get any atheist to write a few paragraphs about their worldview. See if they are able to do that WITHOUT mentioning Christianity, the Bible, Jesus Christ or the church.

Why not try keebs?

Explain your worldview without a reference to Christianity.

People are born and people die. It's that simple. No mention of God, Jesus, nor the Church.

SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought".

That implies that theism was first.... "time has passed".

No, it doesn't imply that theism was first, it implies just what it means...that they believe that it is time to give up theistic beliefs. Just because the time is up for one idea does not mean that this idea was not preceded or did not coexist with a conflicting idea.

 

[Gary]

Atheist worldview: People are born and people die. It's that simple.

Gary: So nothing about good and bad; ethics and morality. Nothing about the rule of law, nothing about how you should live between the "people are born" and "people die". Nothing about how should should interact with people. Nothing about how you should treat others, especially those with less than you and those who consider you their enemy.

What a pathetic worldview.

 

[SyntaxVorlon]

Atheist worldview: People are born and people die. It's that simple.

Gary: So nothing about good and bad; ethics and morality. Nothing about the rule of law, nothing about how you should live between the "people are born" and "people die". Nothing about how should should interact with people. Nothing about how you should treat others, especially those with less than you and those who consider you their enemy.

What a pathetic worldview.

Great spelling job, keebs is spelled k-e-e-b-s, not a-t-h-e-i-s-t.
The atheist worldview is simply the world as it is, keebs has just purported to a portion of it.
If you want ethics, law, good and bad, look to humanism.

 

[keebs]

If you wanted to hear about my values and morals, then I believe that everyone is born with equally and with certain rights that should never be taken away. I believe people have the power to make their own decisions, and that they should be given the right to practice this power. If someone is gay, no one should be able to tell them it's wrong (ahem, Bush). If someone wants to smoke pot, they should be able too--as long as they do not endanger others in the process. If someone wants an abortion, they should be able to have one (and that includes people expected to give birth in the very near future). As for how people should interact with others, I believe that's up to society to judge...and the same thing goes for how we should treat others. However, I also believe in the importance of the individual over society. If someone has less than me, it's not my problem. If someone is my enemy, they will be treated as such. Is that a better answer for you?

 

[bibleberean]

Keebs,

Everyone is born with equal rights?

Who says so?

Where do these rights come from?

Who are you to say that "no one has the right to say homosexuality is wrong"?

Why is your opinion of any greater value than another man's opinion?

 

[Gary]

Atheist worldview: ".....As for how people should interact with others, I believe that's up to society to judge...and the same thing goes for how we should treat others. However, I also believe in the importance of the individual over society."

Gary: So you can murder (even if "society" may judge).... as you believe in "the importance of the individual over society".

hmmmm. How profound.

By the way, who is society? Please define that.

 

[keebs]

Everyone is born with equal rights?

Yes.

Who says so?

I do. Why would anyone be any more important than anyone else? Are you racist? Do you not like Jews?

Where do these rights come from?

Nowhere. We've always had rights, it's laws that have come and taken them away.

Who are you to say that "no one has the right to say homosexuality is wrong"?

I didn't mean it like it that. I meant it to mean that no one should be able to take away homosexual rights because they're homosexual.

Why is your opinion of any greater value than another man's opinion?

It's not, but then again I never claimed it was. Gary asked me what my views are, so I posted them.

Gary: So you can murder (even if "society" may judge).... as you believe in "the importance of the individual over society".

I didn't mean it in that context. I meant it in that the individual should be able to make their own life decisions, society shouldn't force people into a certain line of thinking.

By the way, who is society? Please define that.

"A group of humans broadly distinguished from other groups by mutual interests, participation in characteristic relationships, shared institutions, and a common culture."