Give us your absolute bottom-line Christian essentials

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The doctrine of the person of Christ is basic to the entire revelation of Bible Christianity. Error in this department is so serious as to make the one who holds it a heretic. To go wrong here is to go wrong everywhere, for every other doctrine of grace is inextricably bound up with the doctrine of Christ's person. The distinguishing mark of most false cults is their denial of the essential and eternal deity of the Lord Jesus Christ. No wonder, then, the fundamental statement of the Christian faith, given by the inspired Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 3:16, commenced with, "God was manifest in the flesh."

The deity of the Lord Jesus Christ can easily be proved from Scripture by showing first, that the name of God is given to Him; second, that the attributes of God are ascribed to Him; third, that the works of God are ascribed to Him; and fourth, that religious worship is commanded to be given to Him.

There is also the understanding of His Title: the LORD JESUS CHRIST:

LORD: Yahweh/Father
JESUS: Son
CHRIST: Holy Spirit.

Trinity. God is a Trinity as He always is, and was, and is to come.

The word God is not in the original text.​

1 Timothy 3:16​


16 And without controversy great is the 9mystery of godliness:

dGod 1was manifested in the flesh,

eJustified in the Spirit,

fSeen by angels,

gPreached among the Gentiles,

hBelieved on in the world,

iReceived up in glory.



1 Timothy 3:16. New International Version​

16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:​

He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
 
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Jesus sure did claim to be God:

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jn 17:3.

Jesus is the man.
Christ is God.
Jesus Christ is the God-man as was prophesied in Genesis:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Gen. 3:14–15.

The religious leaders knew they were condemning to death their Messiah. They understood the prophesy of Genesis 3:15, that it spoke of a God-man that would come.

A man of which his heel shall be bruised (death), and God who would bruise the serpents head (death.)
Wow, you guys need to learn how to read.
 
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1 Timothy 3:15-16


Revised Standard Version



15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. 16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion:
He[a] was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated[b] in the Spirit,
seen by angels,
preached among the nations,
believed on in the world,
taken up in glory.
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. 1 Timothy 3:16 Greek Who; other ancient authorities read God; others, Which
  2. 1 Timothy 3:16 Or justified

As you can see, the word God was added.

 
Well, it is historical fact.
Westcott and Hort were not exactly open Catholics, but they did hold to the Marian theology of Rome.
There is enough documentary evidence upon which to make a judgment. Even the son of Westcott provided letters Westcott Sr. wrote to his wife. He exalts Mary and he did not believe in the inerrancy and inspiration of the Scripture. His method of translation was 'natural' in which he saw the Bible on the same level as any other literature. And this was how he translated the Greek texts to make his Revision. The Greek texts he used couldn't even find agreement among themselves. He had just over 200 Greek texts. The Textus Receptus were in excess of 5,200 manuscripts and in them was the texts of the original autographs. And the texts that were used to make the Textus Receptus agreed with each other 90-95% among themselves.
Sources?
 
Those scriptures do not state what you think.
Comments like this are pointless. Please show what each passage I quoted states.

Wow, you guys need to learn how to read.
Again, comments like this are pointless. If you want to discuss or debate things, then do so, but please don't make these comments which add nothing to the discussion or the truth of the matter.
 

The word God is not in the original text.​

1 Timothy 3:16​


16 And without controversy great is the 9mystery of godliness:

dGod 1was manifested in the flesh,

eJustified in the Spirit,

fSeen by angels,

gPreached among the Gentiles,

hBelieved on in the world,

iReceived up in glory.



1 Timothy 3:16. New International Version​

16 Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great:​

He appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
If you're using the NIV or any modern-day English translation, they are all translated from the Westcott and Hort 1881 Revised Greek Version. Their Greek version was taken from corrupt texts, and they changed the word "God" to say "Who" which grammatically doesn't make sense with the rest of the passage.
 
Sorry, don't buy the whole corrupted Alexandrian conspiracy theory reaction to Westcott and Hort
It's not conspiracy. It's historical facts.
Try reading Scriveners notes he made during the translation work since he was among the translators and every time he made comment he was out voted.
Also read up on John William Burgon who challenged what Westcott and Hort did with regard to their Greek Revision. Westcott and Hort translated according to the 'naturalistic method" in which that method treated the Holy Scriptures like any other literature, and they also did not believe in the inerrancy nor the inspiration of the Scripture.
The translators of the KJV treated the Holy Writ with deep, reverent respect and believed they were handling the Holy Word of God.
Westcott and Hort were also closet-Catholics and held to the Marian theology of Rome. Well, not exactly closet as their personal writings describe their exaltation of Mary. But these things are well documented in their own writings.
 
Well, it is historical fact.
Westcott and Hort were not exactly open Catholics, but they did hold to the Marian theology of Rome.
There is enough documentary evidence upon which to make a judgment. Even the son of Westcott provided letters Westcott Sr. wrote to his wife. He exalts Mary and he did not believe in the inerrancy and inspiration of the Scripture. His method of translation was 'natural' in which he saw the Bible on the same level as any other literature. And this was how he translated the Greek texts to make his Revision. The Greek texts he used couldn't even find agreement among themselves. He had just over 200 Greek texts. The Textus Receptus were in excess of 5,200 manuscripts and in them was the texts of the original autographs. And the texts that were used to make the Textus Receptus agreed with each other 90-95% among themselves.
'Erasmus originally assembled his Greek text based on 7 Greek manuscripts and published it in 1516 as the “Novum Instrumentum omne“. In the second edition, he changed the title to “Novum Testamentum omne“, and used an additional manuscript for the compilation. There’s good evidence that he had more manuscripts to choose from, but decided to use only those 7 (presumably because they were of the best quality, but we don’t know for sure). The table below shows the texts from which Erasmus assembled his Greek New Testament.

Erasmus adjusted the text in many places to correspond with readings found in the Vulgate or as quoted in the Church Fathers; consequently, although the Textus Receptus is classified by scholars as a late Byzantine text, it differs in nearly 2000 readings from the standard form of that text-type, as represented by the “Majority Text” of Hodges and Farstad (Wallace 1989).

So when you see people (mostly Confessional Position and/or KJV-Only Christians) try to use the Majority Text to bolster their case for the Textus Receptus, please realize they’re misinformed. The two definitely share similarities, but they definitely aren’t the same."

Seven texts in Erasmus's text.

https://www.bereanpatriot.com/major...ext-vs-textus-receptus-textual-criticism-101/


"Second, the Greek text which stands behind the King James Bible is demonstrably inferior in certain places. The man who edited the text was a Roman Catholic priest and humanist named Erasmus.1 He was under pressure to get it to the press as soon as possible since (a) no edition of the Greek New Testament had yet been published, and (b) he had heard that Cardinal Ximenes and his associates were just about to publish an edition of the Greek New Testament and he was in a race to beat them. Consequently, his edition has been called the most poorly edited volume in all of literature! It is filled with hundreds of typographical errors which even Erasmus would acknowledge. Two places deserve special mention. In the last six verses of Revelation, Erasmus had no Greek manuscript (=MS) (he only used half a dozen, very late MSS for the whole New Testament any way). He was therefore forced to ‘back-translate’ the Latin into Greek and by so doing he created seventeen variants which have never been found in any other Greek MS of Revelation! He merely guessed at what the Greek might have been."

About half a dozen Greek manuscripts in Erasmus's text.

https://bible.org/article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today


"The problem with Erasmus was that he only used really three manuscripts. In fact, the manuscript Erasmus used for the book of Revelation lacked the last leaf. He was in a rush to get his Greek New Testament published, because he knew there were others trying to get their editions out. Consequently, he back translated from his defective copy of the Latin Vulgate into Greek for the last six verses of Revelation. In the process, he created twenty new textual variants that have not been found in any other manuscripts—except a few that were based on what he did several years later.

Textus Receptus is the Greek text that stands behind the King James Bible. Contrary to what its name suggests, it is not the text received by all. Even Erasmus wasn't pleased with the production. He never liked it. He admitted it was rushed, that it was precipitated rather than produced. He put in eight years of work. By the end, he was tired.

In the late 1800s, Frederick Scrivener said there was no book he had ever seen with as many errors as the first edition of Erasmus's Greek New Testament."

Three manuscripts in Erasmus's text.

https://zondervanacademic.com/blog/textus-receptus


"Thus, though the Complutensian text was printed first, Erasmus had the honor of being the first to publish a Greek New Testament. His text was based on about half a dozen Greek manuscripts, none of which were complete. Thus, for any given portion of the New Testament, Erasmus had even fewer manuscripts to work with, in some cases only one. For the book of Revelation, he had only one manuscript and it was missing the last page, which would have contained the last six verses. To fill in this and other gaps in his manuscripts, Erasmus’ translated the Latin Vulgate into Greek, thus creating Greek readings that had never been seen before in any manuscript. These portions represented Erasmus’ best estimation of what the Greek text behind the Latin Vulgate would have said, and many of them remained uncorrected in every subsequent edition of the TR, even as more manuscripts became available."

Around six Greek manuscripts and a bit of the Latin Vulgate in Erasmus's text.

https://carm.org/king-james-onlyism/what-is-the-textus-receptus/
 
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Also read up on John William Burgon who challenged what Westcott and Hort did with regard to their Greek Revision. Westcott and Hort translated according to the 'naturalistic method" in which that method treated the Holy Scriptures like any other literature, and they also did not believe in the inerrancy nor the inspiration of the Scripture
Yes, it's great propaganda and a way to demonize Westcott & Hort for using 'human reason' in textual criticism, while Burgon et al up to the 'Majority Text' use 'naturalistic' 'human reason' too. The KJV Only/Majority Text Only suffers numerous problem

Please see the following for a critique:

Wallace, Daniel B. "The Majority-Text Theory: History, Methods and Critique." JOURNAL-EVANGELICAL THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY 37 (1994): 185-185.
 
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Yes, it's great propaganda and a way to demonize Westcott & Hort for using 'human reason' in textual criticism, while Burgon et al up to the 'Majority Text' use 'naturalistic' 'human reason' too. The KJV Only/Majority Text Only suffers numerous problem

Please see the following for a critique:

Wallace, Daniel B. "The Majority-Text Theory: History, Methods and Critique." JOURNAL-EVANGELICAL THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY 37 (1994): 185-185.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
Neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts.
Is 55:8–9.

Human reason is what doomed Adam and the woman.
 
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
Neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts.
Is 55:8–9.

Human reason is what doomed Adam and the woman.
My point is human reason was used every bit as much to make the Textus Receptus, the KJV, and the Majority Text, so those who think otherwise are just kidding themselves. And you're using human reason right now just to have this conversation. God gave us a mind to think. There's nothing wrong with thinking.
 
My point is human reason was used every bit as much to make the Textus Receptus, the KJV, and the Majority Text, so those who think otherwise are just kidding themselves. And you're using human reason now just to have this conversation. God gave us a mind to think.
Using corrupt Greek texts that the Church didn't even use is not thinking.
It is foolishness.
And today the Church is suffering from their heresy.
 
Using corrupt Greek texts that the Church didn't even use is not thinking.
It is foolishness.
And today the Church is suffering from their heresy.
Simply declaring it "corrupt" doesn't demonstrate that it is. And the Church used these so-called "corrupt" manuscripts for the first nine centuries of Church history. The so-called "Majority Text"-type tradition did not become the "majority" until the ninth century. This contradicts Burgon's presumption of *providential preservation*---the foundational presupposition upon which the entire TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based.

phpt7etli.jpg
 
Simply declaring it "corrupt" doesn't demonstrate that it is. And the Church used these so-called "corrupt" manuscripts for the first nine centuries of Church history. The so-called "Majority Text"-type tradition did not become the "majority" until the ninth century. This contradicts Burgon's presumption of *providential preservation*---the foundational presupposition upon which the entire TR/KJV/Majority Text Only movement is based.
Thanks, but I prefer to trust the work by Burgon.
He was closest to these historical events.
 
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
Neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts.
Is 55:8–9.

Human reason is what doomed Adam and the woman.
And, yet, here you are using "human reason." The irony is, we would all die very quickly without the use of reason. God is Logic and as creatures made in his image, we have been given the capacity for logic and reason as well. Without it we couldn't even communicate. So the argument to Isa 55:8-9 is in no way an argument against the use of human reason in general, at least without further qualifications.
 
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And, yet, here you are using "human reason." The irony is, we would all die very quickly without the use of reason. God is Logic and as creatures made in his image, we have been given the capacity for logic and reason as well. Without it we couldn't even communicate. So the argument to Isa 55:8-9 is in no way an argument against the use of human reason in general, at least without further qualifications.
How can you say God is logic?
What's the logic in that to save your life you must give it up?
Or that to be exalted you must humble yourself?
That's not logic.
If you want to save your life you must do what is necessary to make sure you save your life.
If you want to be exalted you must make every effort to exalt yourself. These are the logical solutions to the above. But God is not logic.
 
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How can you say God is logic?
What's the logic in that to save your life you must give it up?
Or that to be exalted you must humble yourself?
That's not logic.
If you want to save your life you must do what is necessary to make sure you save your life.
If you want to be exalted you must make every effort to exalt yourself. These are the logical solutions to the above. But God is not logic.
God certainly is logic, in the same way he is love. I highly recommend the (very large) book Logic by Vern S. Poythress. To quote:

"Everything God created is distinct from him. It is all subject to him. Therefore, logic is not a second absolute, over God or beside him. There is only one Absolute, God himself. Logic is in fact an aspect of his character, because it expresses the consistency of God and the faithfulness of God. Consistency and faithfulness belong to the character of God. We can say that they are attributes of God. God is who he is (Ex. 3:14), and what he is includes his consistency and faithfulness. There is nothing more ultimate than God. So God is the source for logic. The character of God includes his logicality." (p.63)

"God has thoughts infinitely above ours (Isa. 55:8-9), but we may also have access to his thoughts when he reveals them: "How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!" (Ps. 139:17). We are privileged to think God's thoughts after him. Our experience of thinking, reasoning, and forming arguments imitates God and reflects the mind of God. Our logic reflects God's logic. Logic, then, is an aspect of God's mind. Logic is universal among all human beings in all cultures, because there is only one God, and we are all made in the image of God." (p. 64)

"If an argument is indeed valid, its validity holds for all times and all places. That is, its validity is omnipresent (in all places) and eternal (for all times). Logical validity has these two attributes that are classically attributed to God." (p. 65)

He goes on to show how laws of logic, since they do not change and are infallibly true, are also immutable and truthful, both attributes of God. He also states that logic is personal because it is rational.

"So logic or reason is an aspect of God's speaking. We can see this is true when God created the world in Genesis 1. His speech includes logical self-consistency and rationality. The same truth holds supremely for the eternal Word of God who is God. This eternal Word is the eternal speech of God. He is therefore also the eternal logic or reason of God, as an aspect of God's speech." (p.71)

"Logic as we human beings experience it has roots in eternal logic, namely, the eternal Word, the second person of the Trinity, in fellowship with the Father and the Spirit." (p. 86)

"Christian transcendence says that God is ultimate, and there is no other. He is the source of all norms, including norms in logic. God's self-consistency is the source and foundation for all logical consistency that we as human beings experience. Logic is not an impersonal, abstract principle or set of principles above God. Rather, logic is personal. Ultimately, it is a person, namely, the second person of the Trinity, the Logos. God comprehends himself perfectly, and he is the standard for logic." (p. 111)

One of the main purposes of the book is to show the difference between the Christian use of logic and the non-Christian use. It is unfortunate that it seems many in certain Christian circles have a negative view of logic that isn't at all biblical, but it does explain why beliefs such as KJVOism--the most irrational and needlessly divisive belief in Christianity, that I know of--persist.
 
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