God cannot judge unaware people

[Fastfredy0]

• Ephesians 5:6 “Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
• Hebrews 1:9 “You have loved righteousness [integrity, virtue, uprightness in purpose] and have hated lawlessness [injustice, sin].
• Hebrews 12:29 God is [indeed] a consuming fire.
• Deuteronomy 27:26 ‘Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them [keeping them, taking them to heart as the rule of his life].’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’
• 1 Corinthians 16:22 If anyone does not love the Lord [does not obey and respect and believe in Jesus Christ and His message], he is to be accursed (strong dislike of or anger toward someone).
• Psalm 5:5; Psalm 7:11; Psalm 2:12; John 3:36b; Romans 2:5, Romans 2:8; Romans 5:9; Romans 9:22; Colossians 3:6; 1 Thessalonians 1:10; 1 Thessalonians 2:16 (people persecuted by Jews); 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Ephesians 5:6-7; Colossians 3:5-6; Hebrews 3:11; Revelation 6:16-17; Revelation 19:15)

 

[Tenchi]

They will be brought back in judgment, they will be educated in God's ways and be given the opportunity they never had to accept and serve Him.

It would be a pretty sick god to resurrect someone just to kill them off again, but if he is that sick, I hope I have the strength to stand against him as satan did, at least we would die in honor. Why would you worship a god like that?

I am astonished by these remarks! What sort of a God do you worship and serve who is under your finite, comparatively ignorant, sin-corrupted conception of right and wrong? Where your views diverge from His revealed to you in His word, you are the one who has gone awry, who does not understand, and who is obliged, in light of your massive inferiority to your Maker, to submit to His will and way. Consider Job.

The hubris in your statement here is staggering! It is very telling, though, that your prideful thinking aligns you with Satan, whose example you'll follow if God doesn't act in the way you think He should. Wow. You have a deeply contorted idea of who God is and who you are relative to Him. Beware! The line of thought and attitude you've expressed here will lead you far from God and into darkness and death.

Proverbs 16:25
25 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

1 Peter 5:5-6
5 ...God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,

Job 42:1-6
1 Then Job answered the LORD and said,
2 "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know."
4 'Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask You, and You instruct me.'
5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes."

 

[Fastfredy0]

The hubris in your statement here is staggering! It is very telling, though, that your prideful thinking aligns you with Satan, whose example you'll follow if God doesn't act in the way you think He should. Wow. You have a deeply contorted idea of who God is and who you are relative to Him. Beware! The line of thought and attitude you've expressed here will lead you far from God and into darkness and death.

Concerning Highway54
Tenchi: I think you are going a little overboard in your criticism of Highway. I found Highway54 description of God somewhat off the mark too, but we all get it wrong to some degree. I get the impression from Highway's posts that he has a great admiration of God.
The "love of God" has been over emphasized for the last generation in my opinion and most people have slanted their idea of God incorrectly given this indoctrination. They forget that God's love is a holy love IMO. Again, we all get it wrong to some degree.

 

[GodsGrace]

I am astonished by these remarks! What sort of a God do you worship and serve who is under your finite, comparatively ignorant, sin-corrupted conception of right and wrong? Where your views diverge from His revealed to you in His word, you are the one who has gone awry, who does not understand, and who is obliged, in light of your massive inferiority to your Maker, to submit to His will and way. Consider Job.

The hubris in your statement here is staggering! It is very telling, though, that your prideful thinking aligns you with Satan, whose example you'll follow if God doesn't act in the way you think He should. Wow. You have a deeply contorted idea of who God is and who you are relative to Him. Beware! The line of thought and attitude you've expressed here will lead you far from God and into darkness and death.

Proverbs 16:25
25 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

1 Peter 5:5-6
5 ...God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,

Job 42:1-6
1 Then Job answered the LORD and said,
2 "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know."
4 'Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask You, and You instruct me.'
5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes."

PLEASE ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND NOT THE MEMBER.
YOU ARE BREAKING TOS RULES.
FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH THEM.

DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST IN THIS THREAD. USE TALK WITH THE STAFF IF NECESSARY.
THANKS

 

[GodsGrace]

Concerning Highway54
Tenchi: I think you are going a little overboard in your criticism of Highway. I found Highway54 description of God somewhat off the mark too, but we all get it wrong to some degree. I get the impression from Highway's posts that he has a great admiration of God.
The "love of God" has been over emphasized for the last generation in my opinion and most people have slanted their idea of God incorrectly given this indoctrination. They forget that God's love is a holy love IMO. Again, we all get it wrong to some degree.

I would venture to say, as I have many times before, that our doctrine does not save us...Jesus does and our love for God and our desire to serve Him.

 

[Tenchi]

Believe it or not, my concern for the poster is genuine and serious. I really believe proposing to sit in judgment over God is an exceedingly...unfortunate thing to do. I made my remark to Highway54 to expose and warn, not condemn, as God commands me to do with all of my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord. I very much doubt that Highway54 has any idea of the dangerousness of his remarks to himself (and others) and so I wrote what I did. But my desire is only to see Highway54 kept from the spiritual harm of thinking to sit in judgment upon his Maker. Next time (God forbid), I'll just PM him. Okay?

 

[GodsGrace]

Doctrine is critical maam. We have been given the assignment to teach people to observe all the things Jesus commanded, if our teachings are not in harmony with Jesus, we would be no different than satan who was the original doctrine alterer, look at what the result has been from Eve choosing to accept satans contradictory words over God's.

Let me ask you this:

Do you know anyone who is saved and knows no theology?

Do you think those that do not believe on soul sleep are lost?

What about OSAS?

What about worshipping on Saturday or Sunday? One is wrong.

What if I love God and live for Him, but I don't know about baptism...am I headed for hell?

 

[Highway54]

Aside: There are no verse saying God loves someone that we know is in hell.
I went through my notes and cut and pasted some stuff.
It is probably useful to define God's hate/angry/wrath.
Short definition: Simply put, it is a disposition of disfavor and holy judgment against sin.
Long Winded Definition:
Strictly speaking, wrath is not an attribute of God’s nature, but is his “holy justice against sin”. Joel Beeke Reformed Systematic Theology Job 35:7 “If you are righteous, what do you give God, Or what does He receive from your hand? 8 “Your wickedness affects only a man such as you, And your righteousness affects only a son of man [but it cannot affect God, who is sovereign]”; Job 22:2-3; Romans 11:34-35; Isaiah 40:13; Acts 17:25 See Aseity (independence) of God
Since God is impassable -- his mind cannot be emotionally disturbed -- this means that divine hate is not emotional; rather, God’s hate (wrath) is [anthropomorphic] and a volition to demonstrate his holy justice against sin. Since God is holy He is separate from all that is unclean and evil. Thus, God’s hate is an intellectual disposition of disassociation and disfavor to those who are not morally perfect (God is holy/light).
As pertaining to the elect, the absolute, innate holiness of God means that sinners have to be separated from Him unless a way can be found to constitute them holy. And that way has been provided in the merits of Jesus Christ (imputation of our sin to Christ and the imputation of Christ’s righteousness to the elect).

Aside: There are no verse saying God loves someone that we know is in hell.

Did not God say this sir?: Mt 3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased
Sounds like love to me Fred.

 

[Highway54]

I am astonished by these remarks! What sort of a God do you worship and serve who is under your finite, comparatively ignorant, sin-corrupted conception of right and wrong? Where your views diverge from His revealed to you in His word, you are the one who has gone awry, who does not understand, and who is obliged, in light of your massive inferiority to your Maker, to submit to His will and way. Consider Job.

The hubris in your statement here is staggering! It is very telling, though, that your prideful thinking aligns you with Satan, whose example you'll follow if God doesn't act in the way you think He should. Wow. You have a deeply contorted idea of who God is and who you are relative to Him. Beware! The line of thought and attitude you've expressed here will lead you far from God and into darkness and death.

Proverbs 16:25
25 There is a way which seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

1 Peter 5:5-6
5 ...God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble.
6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you at the proper time,

Job 42:1-6
1 Then Job answered the LORD and said,
2 "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.
3 'Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?' "Therefore I have declared that which I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know."
4 'Hear, now, and I will speak; I will ask You, and You instruct me.'
5 "I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear; but now my eye sees You;
6 Therefore I retract, and I repent in dust and ashes."

I serve Jehovah Tenchi, the God Jesus worshipped and served, and told us to serve as well. Mat 4:10 Although you chose to remove His name, but I am referring to the God in your passages sir.

 

[Highway54]

Concerning Highway54
Tenchi: I think you are going a little overboard in your criticism of Highway. I found Highway54 description of God somewhat off the mark too, but we all get it wrong to some degree. I get the impression from Highway's posts that he has a great admiration of God.
The "love of God" has been over emphasized for the last generation in my opinion and most people have slanted their idea of God incorrectly given this indoctrination. They forget that God's love is a holy love IMO. Again, we all get it wrong to some degree.

Thank you Fred for your kind comment sir, and your admission as well. It is very true, we are all a work in progress, but how nice and refreshing that is when someone is humble enough to admit it.

 

[Highway54]

Believe it or not, my concern for the poster is genuine and serious. I really believe proposing to sit in judgment over God is an exceedingly...unfortunate thing to do. I made my remark to Highway54 to expose and warn, not condemn, as God commands me to do with all of my fellow brothers and sisters in the Lord. I very much doubt that Highway54 has any idea of the dangerousness of his remarks to himself (and others) and so I wrote what I did. But my desire is only to see Highway54 kept from the spiritual harm of thinking to sit in judgment upon his Maker. Next time (God forbid), I'll just PM him. Okay?

Thank you Tenchi for you sincere concern not only for myself but others as well. That is of course one of the qualities that true Christians display Mat 22:39. The best way to reach me is through Scriptural evidence and reasoning. Promoting God's truths are only dangerous to those who choose to stand against Him sir.

But you are welcome to PM me anytime, I will always respond.

 

[Highway54]

Let me ask you this:

Do you know anyone who is saved and knows no theology?

Do you think those that do not believe on soul sleep are lost?

What about OSAS?

What about worshipping on Saturday or Sunday? One is wrong.

What if I love God and live for Him, but I don't know about baptism...am I headed for hell?

Do you know anyone who is saved and knows no theology?

I realize you know this maam, but just to reiterate it, the keys to life and death is in Jesus' hands. I want you to reason in your limited love as compared to God, who is referred to as Love to think how you would judge them. Also think of another quality of His Justice. God has the responsibility as the parent of the human race to set the rules, and to make sure His children are aware of those. If a person has never been reached, and there have been billions, then how can they be held accountable? That is one of the main reasons that man has set up a judging done by a jury of your peers. If humans recognize the justice in it, would not God who is infinitely more just recognize it as well?

Jesus talked about an easily understood separation of peoples, one being sheep and the other goats. We all recognize who these are, the sheep inherit everlasting life, while the goats are not. A God of love would not resurrect goats just to haughtily execute them again, or torture them eternally as some believe. Acts 24:15 speaks about a resurrection of the righteous, which we recognize as sheep correct? And the unrighteous, which would not be those goats which were already judged, but those who were not given the opportunity to know God. Remember all humans who are resurrected to the earth will not receive everlasting life till the end of the thousand years Rev 20:5. Only those who went to heaven get their reward upon their resurrection verse 6. They will be given that opportunity to know God and choose to side with Him, or satan upon satans release verse 7,8

Do you think those that do not believe on soul sleep are lost?

I think by the term you mean continue living after death. We believe the dead are dead maam. (Psalm 146:4) 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. . .
(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) . . .. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . .10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

As far as being lost, Isa 2:2,3 and Mat 24:14 is still going on. The door to the ingathering is not closed yet.

What about OSAS?

Mat 24:13 dispels that. Saved actually means salvation, one gets the life or death judgment at the judging, one is saved when they receive the gift of life.

What about worshipping on Saturday or Sunday? One is wrong.

Christians live the faith 24/7 as their mentor and chief exemplar Jesus.

What if I love God and live for Him, but I don't know about baptism...am I headed for hell?

Hell is the abode of the dead, and even Jesus went there when he died. All except anointed Christians (based on the fulfillment of Rev 20:6) who die go there to await a resurrection. Rev 20:13 show all will be resurrected from it, and then verse 14 states that since there will no longer be a need for it it will be cast into the lake of fire, permanently gone. Why is there no longer a need for it? Rev 21:4 gives the reason.

I hope I have addressed your questions logically and understandably maam, thanks for asking me, I feel privileged.

 

[Tenchi]

I serve Jehovah Tenchi, the God Jesus worshipped and served, and told us to serve as well. Mat 4:10 Although you chose to remove His name, but I am referring to the God in your passages sir.

I hope you do, Highway54, truly serve Jehovah. The following quotation from an earlier post of yours makes me wonder seriously however:

"It would be a pretty sick god to resurrect someone just to kill them off again, but if he is that sick, I hope I have the strength to stand against him as satan did... ."

By the way, I don't recall Scripture saying that Jesus worshiped God. Jesus fulfilled the will of the Father, yes, but worship Him? Mmm...no. I can think of only one instance where Christ's words might be twisted to make him sound like he was saying he worshiped the Father (or Jehovah, if you prefer):

John 4:19-24
19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

In context, Jesus is speaking to a Samaritan woman who, as a Samaritan, worshiped a God she didn't really know. The Samaritans had rejected the prophets and all they revealed about God and they had established a temple and public worship apart from the Mosaic prescriptions for such things, thus worshiping God in an "unauthorized" (that is, disobedient) way. Identifying with the Jews in his comment to the Samaritan woman in verse 22, Jesus contrasted the Jewish worship of God - the correct worship of Him - with the ignorant, erroneous Samaritan version. What Jesus was NOT doing was indicating that he, as God incarnate, was essentially worshiping himself. Again, Jesus was speaking as a Jew for the Jews corporately (hence, the use of "we"), not for himself as an individual.

I wonder, then, at your remark that Jesus worshiped God. Though the Gospels repeatedly indicate that Jesus prayed to the Father, and went up alone into the wilderness to commune with Him, I can't recall any passages or verses that describe Jesus worshiping God, the Father. Instead, I find a number of instances where Jesus accepted worship of himself. (Matthew 14:31-34; Matthew 28:9-10; Luke 24:51-53; John 9:35-39, etc.)

About God's name: Do you think that God from eternity past referred to Himself as "Jehovah"? As I'm sure you know, "Jehovah" is the Latinized version of the Hebrew "Yhwh," massaged by various means, first into "Yahweh," and then, by way of Latin, into "Jehovah." Under these circumstances, how "Jehovah" comes to be God's one-and-only, or primary, name is a mystery to me. I'm pretty certain that in eternity past, long before the Hebrew or Latin languages existed, God was not using a Latinized version of the Tetragrammaton to refer to Himself. And what of all the other names of God offered in Scripture - Adonai, El Shaddai, Elohim, El Roi, Jehovah Jireh, etc.? What is one to do with them if "Jehovah" is the sole, appropriate descriptor of God?

 

[GodsGrace]

I realize you know this maam, but just to reiterate it, the keys to life and death is in Jesus' hands. I want you to reason in your limited love as compared to God, who is referred to as Love to think how you would judge them. Also think of another quality of His Justice. God has the responsibility as the parent of the human race to set the rules, and to make sure His children are aware of those. If a person has never been reached, and there have been billions, then how can they be held accountable? That is one of the main reasons that man has set up a judging done by a jury of your peers. If humans recognize the justice in it, would not God who is infinitely more just recognize it as well?

Jesus talked about an easily understood separation of peoples, one being sheep and the other goats. We all recognize who these are, the sheep inherit everlasting life, while the goats are not. A God of love would not resurrect goats just to haughtily execute them again, or torture them eternally as some believe. Acts 24:15 speaks about a resurrection of the righteous, which we recognize as sheep correct? And the unrighteous, which would not be those goats which were already judged, but those who were not given the opportunity to know God. Remember all humans who are resurrected to the earth will not receive everlasting life till the end of the thousand years Rev 20:5. Only those who went to heaven get their reward upon their resurrection verse 6. They will be given that opportunity to know God and choose to side with Him, or satan upon satans release verse 7,8

I think by the term you mean continue living after death. We believe the dead are dead maam. (Psalm 146:4) 4 His spirit goes out, he returns to the ground; On that very day his thoughts perish. . .
(Ecclesiastes 9:4-10) . . .. 5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . .10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going.

As far as being lost, Isa 2:2,3 and Mat 24:14 is still going on. The door to the ingathering is not closed yet.


Mat 24:13 dispels that. Saved actually means salvation, one gets the life or death judgment at the judging, one is saved when they receive the gift of life.

Christians live the faith 24/7 as their mentor and chief exemplar Jesus.

Hell is the abode of the dead, and even Jesus went there when he died. All except anointed Christians (based on the fulfillment of Rev 20:6) who die go there to await a resurrection. Rev 20:13 show all will be resurrected from it, and then verse 14 states that since there will no longer be a need for it it will be cast into the lake of fire, permanently gone. Why is there no longer a need for it? Rev 21:4 gives the reason.

I hope I have addressed your questions logically and understandably maam, thanks for asking me, I feel privileged.

Hi H,
Thanks for such an in depth reply.

I was really not meaning to discuss each point here but was trying to get you to think about something.
I'd like to try again, and this time could you give a YES or No answer?

My point is that doctrine does not save.
Do YOU believe that if someone believes an incorrect teaching, they will be doomed forever?

Here are the questions again:
1. Do you know anyone who is saved but has never read the bible (and thus knows no theology at all)?
I do.

2. Do you think that those that do NOT believe is soul sleep are lost?
Some Christians believe in soul sleep and some do not. (aside from JWs).

3. If a person believes in OSAS or if he does NOT believe in OSAS, does this make a difference as to his salvation?

4. What if I worship on Saturday and someone else worships on Sunday...is one of us lost?


You see where I'm going with this?

 

[Highway54]

I hope you do, Highway54, truly serve Jehovah. The following quotation from an earlier post of yours makes me wonder seriously however:

"It would be a pretty sick god to resurrect someone just to kill them off again, but if he is that sick, I hope I have the strength to stand against him as satan did... ."

By the way, I don't recall Scripture saying that Jesus worshiped God. Jesus fulfilled the will of the Father, yes, but worship Him? Mmm...no. I can think of only one instance where Christ's words might be twisted to make him sound like he was saying he worshiped the Father (or Jehovah, if you prefer):

John 4:19-24
19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him.
24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

In context, Jesus is speaking to a Samaritan woman who, as a Samaritan, worshiped a God she didn't really know. The Samaritans had rejected the prophets and all they revealed about God and they had established a temple and public worship apart from the Mosaic prescriptions for such things, thus worshiping God in an "unauthorized" (that is, disobedient) way. Identifying with the Jews in his comment to the Samaritan woman in verse 22, Jesus contrasted the Jewish worship of God - the correct worship of Him - with the ignorant, erroneous Samaritan version. What Jesus was NOT doing was indicating that he, as God incarnate, was essentially worshiping himself. Again, Jesus was speaking as a Jew for the Jews corporately (hence, the use of "we"), not for himself as an individual.

I wonder, then, at your remark that Jesus worshiped God. Though the Gospels repeatedly indicate that Jesus prayed to the Father, and went up alone into the wilderness to commune with Him, I can't recall any passages or verses that describe Jesus worshiping God, the Father. Instead, I find a number of instances where Jesus accepted worship of himself. (Matthew 14:31-34; Matthew 28:9-10; Luke 24:51-53; John 9:35-39, etc.)

About God's name: Do you think that God from eternity past referred to Himself as "Jehovah"? As I'm sure you know, "Jehovah" is the Latinized version of the Hebrew "Yhwh," massaged by various means, first into "Yahweh," and then, by way of Latin, into "Jehovah." Under these circumstances, how "Jehovah" comes to be God's one-and-only, or primary, name is a mystery to me. I'm pretty certain that in eternity past, long before the Hebrew or Latin languages existed, God was not using a Latinized version of the Tetragrammaton to refer to Himself. And what of all the other names of God offered in Scripture - Adonai, El Shaddai, Elohim, El Roi, Jehovah Jireh, etc.? What is one to do with them if "Jehovah" is the sole, appropriate descriptor of God?

Thanks for you honest interesting thoughts Tenchi.

By the way, I don't recall Scripture saying that Jesus worshiped God.

Satan asked Jesus to bow down in worship to him, and he would give him all the Kingdoms of the world, Jesus replied: (Matthew 4:10) . . .Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
Although his disciples consider that for themselves as well, Jesus was indicating that he worshipped Jehovah exclusively. You openly stated he did pray to Him, which of course is a form of worship. It was recorded that he went to the temple, during his life, which he worshipped God there.

Do you think that God from eternity past referred to Himself as "Jehovah"?

The first mention of His name was in Gen 2:4, He gave Himself the name and told Moses that would be His name forever Ex 3:15

And what of all the other names of God offered in Scripture - Adonai, El Shaddai, Elohim, El Roi, Jehovah Jireh, etc.? What is one to do with them if "Jehovah" is the sole, appropriate descriptor of God?

God has but one name sir YHWH, of course as you recognize words are different in different languages, so in English that name is Jehovah. We believe it occurred 6973 times in the Hebrew passages originally. The "names" you mentioned are not His name at all except Jehovah in Jehovah Jireh (comically I used to think that was God's last name). Those Hebrew words are titles applied to Him Adonai is Lord in English; El Shaddai is God Almighty; El Roi is God sees; Jehovah Jireh is Jehovah Provides.

An example between His name and Adonai can be observed at Ps 110:1 in Hebrew is the best way to see the difference, but in English it is Jehovah said to my Lord.

 

[Highway54]

Hi H,
Thanks for such an in depth reply.

I was really not meaning to discuss each point here but was trying to get you to think about something.
I'd like to try again, and this time could you give a YES or No answer?

My point is that doctrine does not save.
Do YOU believe that if someone believes an incorrect teaching, they will be doomed forever?

Here are the questions again:
1. Do you know anyone who is saved but has never read the bible (and thus knows no theology at all)?
I do.

2. Do you think that those that do NOT believe is soul sleep are lost?
Some Christians believe in soul sleep and some do not. (aside from JWs).

3. If a person believes in OSAS or if he does NOT believe in OSAS, does this make a difference as to his salvation?

4. What if I worship on Saturday and someone else worships on Sunday...is one of us lost?


You see where I'm going with this?

Do YOU believe that if someone believes an incorrect teaching, they will be doomed forever?

If they are practicing it at Jesus' return 2 Thes 1:6-9

1. Do you know anyone who is saved but has never read the bible (and thus knows no theology at all)?

No

2. Do you think that those that do NOT believe is soul sleep are lost?

no

4. What if I worship on Saturday and someone else worships on Sunday...is one of us lost?

no

You see where I'm going with this?

Yes, but of course those are not yes and no questions maam. I answered all your questions with Scriptural evidence. Much is related to time, as of now no one is lost, but when the door is shut, the opportunity to serve God ends for those who are not serving Him at that time. Everyone you know personally has been given the opportunity to know God and obey His requirements, most of the world has been given the opportunity. Soon we will have fulfilled Mat 24:14 and then that opportunity ceases as God will bring this system to it's close.

 

[Tenchi]

Satan asked Jesus to bow down in worship to him, and he would give him all the Kingdoms of the world, Jesus replied: (Matthew 4:10) . . .Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .
Although his disciples consider that for themselves as well, Jesus was indicating that he worshipped Jehovah exclusively. You openly stated he did pray to Him, which of course is a form of worship. It was recorded that he went to the temple, during his life, which he worshipped God there.

Well, if Jesus was God incarnate, as the Bible says he was (John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:15-20; Colossians 2:9; 2 Peter 1:1, etc.), then his words to Satan concerning worshiping God would be a command to Satan to worship himself. And so he didn't say to Satan, "We should worship God," only that Satan should worship God. As well, the prayers of Jesus would necessarily be of a different sort to our own since Jesus was a part of the Trinity, sharing in the divine nature in a way no human has ever enjoyed. As the God-Man, Christ's prayers would be for communion with God not worship of Him.

The first mention of His name was in Gen 2:4, He gave Himself the name and told Moses that would be His name forever Ex 3:15

This doesn't answer my question. In speaking to Hebrew people, possessing their own distinct language, God would communicate to them in that language. I must do the same when I travel to, say, Japan. When Japanese people speak my name it is not much at all like my name spoken in my native English. It stands to reason that this is the case with God's name, too. The Tetragrammaton is actually a purposeful contraction (and thus distortion) of God's name, but it is silly to think that from eternity past God was referring to Himself as "YHWH." The Hebrew people did this, in part, in recognition of the greatness of God, trying to show respect to His name. But God isn't a Hebrew human, needing, or wanting, to show respect to a higher, divine power; He is the higher, divine power. I think God's actual name - if He even has one in the way we think of names - is quite unlike the distorted versions of it we take up - just like the Japanese people in Osaka, or Tokyo, who speak my name. It's a bit silly, then, to fuss over which one of His many names given in His word is the best - and only - name to use in reference to Him.

God has but one name sir YHWH, of course as you recognize words are different in different languages, so in English that name is Jehovah. We believe it occurred 6973 times in the Hebrew passages originally. The "names" you mentioned are not His name at all except Jehovah in Jehovah Jireh (comically I used to think that was God's last name). Those Hebrew words are titles applied to Him Adonai is Lord in English; El Shaddai is God Almighty; El Roi is God sees; Jehovah Jireh is Jehovah Provides.

This is all a kind of Begging the Question, I'm afraid. Assertions are not an effective argument - especially when they assert as a given what they are proposing to justify or establish.

 

[D-D-W]

As the God-Man, Christ's prayers would be for communion with God not worship of Him.

I would not be so sure of that. Speaking of our Lord:

Hebrews 2.11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying, “I will proclaim Your name to My brethren, In the midst of the congregation I will sing Your praise.”

Certainly sounds like Jesus Worshiping the Father God to me.

 

[GodsGrace]

If they are practicing it at Jesus' return 2 Thes 1:6-9

No

no

no

Yes, but of course those are not yes and no questions maam. I answered all your questions with Scriptural evidence. Much is related to time, as of now no one is lost, but when the door is shut, the opportunity to serve God ends for those who are not serving Him at that time. Everyone you know personally has been given the opportunity to know God and obey His requirements, most of the world has been given the opportunity. Soon we will have fulfilled Mat 24:14 and then that opportunity ceases as God will bring this system to it's close.

They are yes and no questions.

I'll answer them now:

1. yes.
2. no.
3. no.
4. no.
5. no.

Sure we could go into detail.

But the point, and I insist on this, is that we are NOT SAVED because of WHAT WE KNOW,
but because of WHO WE KNOW.

 

[Tenchi]

I would not be so sure of that. Speaking of our Lord:

Hebrews 2.11
For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one Father; for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying, “I will proclaim Your name to My brethren, In the midst of the congregation I will sing Your praise.”

Certainly sounds like Jesus Worshiping the Father God to me.

When I "sing the praises" of my wife to my friends and family, am I worshiping my wife? No.