God: he, she or it?

[AlexBC]

In all honesty, Alex, this question is very obvious. It is an It.

Since God has no gender (assumed) we can not, by definition call it a Him. Jesus did have a Gender, which is why we call should call him a him.

God is an entity, the whole He/She thing is codependant.. One can not have a He, without a She.

Since God( The being in the Old Testament) is sexless, we should not use masculine or feminist pronouns.

God may call itself a He, but it should know that only applys to gender, and not personality. You can have a very feminist guy, but he would still be a he, and a tomboyish girl would still be a she.

Those titles are designated by sex, not my personality.

Pretty much how I see it. I was interested in how the majority of the faith view the matter.

 

[reba]

I think the problem I have is, unless you take the label "male' in a purely linguistic sense then it opens up other doors. Male is generally by the act of procreation. It might sound very silly, but is there a Mrs God

Once again i read you trying to force God in to the box you wish to fill. God is God. The disrespect is alarming.

 

[handy]

Biologically speaking, it would teeeechnically make more sense to refer to him as Mother.

And the talk of reproduction gets me to another topic. How was Jesus conceived? Surely, if you ground it more in biology, then God is imparting some sort of genetic code to the egg. I'm assuming Jesus shared genetic material with Mary.

If it were done biologically that would perhaps make more sense... but even then we need to speak of something that procreates without birthing...

However, God doesn't procreate biologically anyway so....

Jesus was conceived via the Holy Spirit simply bringing life to one of Mary's eggs. Yes, Jesus shared genetic material with Mary.

It would be facinating to study Jesus' DNA, to be sure.

In all honesty, Alex, this question is very obvious. It is an It.

Since God has no gender (assumed) we can not, by definition call it a Him. Jesus did have a Gender, which is why we call should call him a him.

God is an entity, the whole He/She thing is codependant.. One can not have a He, without a She.

Since God( The being in the Old Testament) is sexless, we should not use masculine or feminist pronouns.

God may call itself a He, but it should know that only applys to gender, and not personality. You can have a very feminist guy, but he would still be a he, and a tomboyish girl would still be a she.

Those titles are designated by sex, not my personality.

And, BAM... right back to square one...

I've not problem shouting it from the mountain tops... since I'm sitting pretty high in the mountains anyway.....

GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING
GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING GOD IS NOT A HUMAN BEING

It's silly to keep trying to impose human biology on something that isn't human... sort of like trying to impose the biology of an amoeba on the Great Barrier Reef.

 

[joethemechanic]

I kinda find referring to God as "it" offensive.

And when people refer to God as "she" I feel like I'm in the middle of some kind of Wicca coven or at a Pagan handfasting.

God chose to be referred to as "Him". He must be right, he's been right about everything else so far and he's been in charge a long time.

 

[handy]

I'm just curious here....


I wonder, both Alex and Atothetheist.... Do either of you know any transgendered people... people who have say, gonads instead of ovaries, BUT... identify as women and present themselves to the world as women...

Do you call them man, or refer to them as "he" "him" especially when they are right there? Have you ever been corrected about that... even though ... biologically speaking... you were right?

Or, would you find it very disrespectful to tell a transgendered person... "Listen buddy, I don't care if you do look, walk, talk, dress and even smell like a woman, biologically speaking, you're a man!!!"

I bring it up because it seems as though the current politically correct position is that we must, under every circumstance, call a transgendered person by the sex they identify with. Boise currently has a case where a transgendered person was arrested and is facing charges of assult. Now, the causes of the assult and the charges and even the current health of the victim is currently overshadowed because the police and the news media insist upon referring to this person by the legal name - a female name- and the person identifies as a male and is insisting, as well as many activists are insisting that, legality smegality... HE is to be referred to by HIS chosen MALE name. The person has overies and a uterus... but it is being framed as a "respect" issue.

Somehow... even though God has consistantly referred to Himself as MALE... He isn't deserving of the same respect?

 

[AlexBC]

Once again i read you trying to force God in to the box you wish to fill. God is God. The disrespect is alarming.

There's no disrespect intended. I'm not trying to fit God into any box. Actually, most who responded to the question are fitting God into a box.

 

[handy]

Some questions....

How is it fitting God into a box by referring to Him as He refers to Himself?

Are you the one person besides Jesus who has walked this planet who understands the full nature of God and therefore can understand, even more so than the inspired writers of the Bible, the truth about God's attributes?


Are we just making up attributes as we go along?

 

[Atothetheist]

I'm just curious here....


I wonder, both Alex and Atothetheist.... Do either of you know any transgendered people... people who have say, gonads instead of ovaries, BUT... identify as women and present themselves to the world as women...

Do you call them man, or refer to them as "he" "him" especially when they are right there? Have you ever been corrected about that... even though ... biologically speaking... you were right?

Or, would you find it very disrespectful to tell a transgendered person... "Listen buddy, I don't care if you do look, walk, talk, dress and even smell like a woman, biologically speaking, you're a man!!!"

I bring it up because it seems as though the current politically correct position is that we must, under every circumstance, call a transgendered person by the sex they identify with. Boise currently has a case where a transgendered person was arrested and is facing charges of assult. Now, the causes of the assult and the charges and even the current health of the victim is currently overshadowed because the police and the news media insist upon referring to this person by the legal name - a female name- and the person identifies as a male and is insisting, as well as many activists are insisting that, legality smegality... HE is to be referred to by HIS chosen MALE name. The person has overies and a uterus... but it is being framed as a "respect" issue.

Somehow... even though God has consistantly referred to Himself as MALE... He isn't deserving of the same respect?

It is my view that God, the idea of a perfect being that can cause people to do horrible things, doesn't really deserve any kind of respect.

Biologically, the transgendered is a Male, but they also have female body parts as well. It is not just the private parts, but the other mutually exclusive parts as well. Women have different parts to take care of babies, and are equipped for such a task, and transgendered ( women who has a penis) carry on some of the mutally exclusive genes.

They are biologically both, both names are aviable to them.

God (assuming) has no genetalia, or genes, or sex for that matter.

I have friends who are transgendered. One of them has gone through A male puberty AND a female one. They have the parts for both, which is why both can e attributed.

You used a false example because they aren't sexless at all, which God is.

 

[joethemechanic]

It is my view that God, the idea of a perfect being that can cause people to do horrible things, doesn't really deserve any kind of respect.

Oh boy, here we go

How did I see this "rebel against God" thing coming on.

 

[jasoncran]

I agree with a lot of this. I do believe that there is a corporal element to God... the Bible speaks specifically of God's face, His hands, His feet, how He sits, how He walks... Since we are made in His image and we are made physical, then I'm not sure why so many believe so strongly that God is pure spirit with no physical attributes.

Also, being in His image would translate into emotional, mental and spiritual attributes as well.... and, although we are certainly created to sexually reproduce and God does not... there are emotional, mental and spiritual aspects to sexuality in the sense of the masculine and the feminine. The Bible always, without exception presents God in the masculine.

you might want to spend some time under the orthodox jews feet or the sages. jews say that god tells us only what we can understand. for isntance how many TIMES we argue here over what God's name is and yet its YHWH and yet that simply means this when directly translated to a word that well doesnt do HIM any justice. "the being" yet get into that Name and its a mystery.

 

[BobE]

I disagree... pretty strongly as a matter of fact.

God didn't "specifically refer to Himself as a mother here... As you correctly go on to say, He used a metaphor... "as a ...."

"As a mother comforts her child, so I will comfort you".... The whole point about a metaphor is that it isn't specific.. it's meant to convey something through imagery.


When God does specifically refer to Himself, or is specifically referred to, it is always in the masculine. It really isn't up to us to change that... especially if the reason why we are changing it is because we are assuming biases in language or by the writers.

When I say God referred to himself "as a" mother, I'm speaking metaphorically, using simile in fact

I could have said, "God characterizes himself 'like' a mother." Same meaning. God is comparing his comfort, to that of a mother's.

To avoid confusion around my intent, I'll adjust the wording, hopefully for more clarity.

 

[joethemechanic]

Atothetheist,

I'm guessing God said "Thou Shalt Not" about something you like to do

 

[Atothetheist]

Oh boy, here we go

How did I see this "rebel against God" thing coming on.

I rebel against the idea of a being able to order horrific things. That was what the remark was about.

Notice, joe, I said IDEA. I never said that I believe the being of God, whether or not he exists deserves no respect. I was advocating a belief that I don't think a being who does make people do that deserves ANY respect.

I can't rebel against a being that doesn't exist, only the idea of the being that has a huge influence.

 

[handy]

I used a false analogy???

Yeah... right.... :yes

What you are refering to is what Alex referred to earlier... hermaphrodites. Transgenders do not identify with their biologically assigned sex. Someone like Thomas Beatie, who identified as a man, presented himself to the world as a man.. yet had a baby because, however he emotionally, mentally and spiritually identifed himself.... she had ovaries and a uterus... biologically she was female.

Anyway, whatever...

Listen, you can make up whatever attributes for your image of god as you like... When it comes to the God that 99% of Christians believe in, the God of the Bible... we have a clear understanding of how He presents Himself... which is, without exception.. (Isaiah 66 being metaphorical and all) as a male.

If you want to refer to your god as it and if Alex want's to refer to his god as it...OK... but out of simple respect when you are referring to the God of Christians, can you simply not refer to Him as male... even if just to humor us poor deluded simpletons? After all, if anyone refers to Thomas Beatie as a female... even after "he" had a baby... they are considered a bigoted idiot, right?

 

[Atothetheist]

Atothetheist,

I'm guessing God said "Thou Shalt Not" about something you like to do

Oh yeah:bigfrown Cuz thats the only reason why I reject God as a being.:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

Well done sir, you have reveal you insulting nature to those who share a different opinion

 

[handy]

you might want to spend some time under the orthodox jews feet or the sages. jews say that god tells us only what we can understand. for isntance how many TIMES we argue here over what God's name is and yet its YHWH and yet that simply means this when directly translated to a word that well doesnt do HIM any justice. "the being" yet get into that Name and its a mystery.

Maybe.. but you know, Jason.. and I don't mean any disrespect to the Jews.... but I don't think they have a better understanding about God than the Christians do.

 

[handy]

When I say God referred to himself "as a" mother, I'm speaking metaphorically, using simile in fact

I could have said, "God characterizes himself 'like' a mother." Same meaning. God is comparing his comfort, to that of a mother's.

To avoid confusion around my intent, I'll adjust the wording, hopefully for more clarity.

Fair enough!!

 

[Atothetheist]

I used a false analogy???

Yeah... right.... :yes

What you are refering to is what Alex referred to earlier... hermaphrodites. Transgenders do not identify with their biologically assigned sex. Someone like Thomas Beatie, who identified as a man, presented himself to the world as a man.. yet had a baby because, however he emotionally, mentally and spiritually identifed himself.... she had ovaries and a uterus... biologically she was female.

Anyway, whatever...

Listen, you can make up whatever attributes for your image of god as you like... When it comes to the God that 99% of Christians believe in, the God of the Bible... we have a clear understanding of how He presents Himself... which is, without exception.. (Isaiah 66 being metaphorical and all) as a male.

If you want to refer to your god as it and if Alex want's to refer to his god as it...OK... but out of simple respect when you are referring to the God of Christians, can you simply not refer to Him as male... even if just to humor us poor deluded simpletons? After all, if anyone refers to Thomas Beatie as a female... even after "he" had a baby... they are considered a bigoted idiot, right?

I will not humor anybody, especially those who need to be right, and beg to be granted that right, even when it is obvious.

God is sexless, and can not be either.

A transgender can be both.

A women who Identifies herself as masculine is still a female, and should be referred to as She.

Same with a male who is emotionally a female.

Unless they do something to their genitalia that warrents the change:eeeekkk

The said transgender HAD BOTH PARTS.... Both genders were avliable to her/him. Only then does it matter who they think they are.

 

[joethemechanic]

Besides, I know that God is a blonde haired, and blue eyed male. He is also a Gaelic German.

 

[jasoncran]

Maybe.. but you know, Jason.. and I don't mean any disrespect to the Jews.... but I don't think they have a better understanding about God than the Christians do.

i go back with the oral traditions before christ! well if you could here the stories me and jeff share about them and what christ said and what the sages said would be if the messiah were to come

ie the temple being flesh and not a building. hmm that third temple was and is to be flesh not some ezekiel temple and jesus said something about living waters which the sages said would represent GOD dwelling in him. by orthodox i mean that chabad.org as they are the easiest to get the info on the sages and the oral traditions.

most christians erroneous think that the trinity is genesis one which its not.elohim is plural name of god with emphasis like LORD of lords and King of Kings. nor is it to be found in the shemah. its stated plainly and openly with statements of Christ and also isiah and other oral traditions and the gemetria with the angel of the lord being linked via that to jesus and even the word amen which is an acronym started by the jews to mean the messiah. and tis a name jesus claimed.