God the Father and Jesus the Lord:

[watchman F]

You sound angry because you cannot get anyone to respond to your posts.

#1 I am not mad just observant

Yes, you are observing you are better than any of us. That's what your observation is saying.

#2 You just responded to my post...lol

I am in Christ, and Christ is perfect

[quote:2qtzb3sw]I responded to show your inconsistency. When you comment your oneness doctrine few people respond to you. I stopped, for example.

[/quote:2qtzb3sw]It doesn't doesn't bother me when you do not respond for I know it is because you cannot refute what I say. Of course you can refute the Trinitarians they are wrong, however you are wrong also I have give scripture that proves you wrong therefore you ignore rather than accept. Just like you will not respond to the almost 10 passages I gave that say Jesus is God in the other thread.

If you cant refute it, ignore it. I get you better than you think bro

 

[shad]

I am in Christ, and Christ is perfect

So are you saying you are perfect? Jesus is the judge of us. Not you, friend.

It doesn't doesn't bother me

Then why are you so angry? You just called me judgmental. People call names when they are angry.

when you do not respond for I know it is because you cannot refute what I say. Of course you can refute the Trinitarians they are wrong, however you are wrong also I have give scripture that proves you wrong therefore you ignore rather than accept. Just like you will not respond to the almost 10 passages I gave that say Jesus is God in the other thread.

[/quote]

You cannot convince anyone to admit your oneness is correct. That's why you are angry and you are taking it out on me because I am an easy target. Who is continually responding to you? I know MM is patiently responding to you but you are belittling him too.

 

[watchman F]

I am in Christ, and Christ is perfect

So are you saying you are perfect? Jesus is the judge of us. Not you, friend.

Christ is perfect

It doesn't doesn't bother me

Then why are you so angry? You just called me judgmental. People call names when they are angry.

Not only am i not angry, I did not call you judgmental, what that scripture meant was you were accusing people of doing things that you do, not about judging.

when you do not respond for I know it is because you cannot refute what I say. Of course you can refute the Trinitarians they are wrong, however you are wrong also I have give scripture that proves you wrong therefore you ignore rather than accept. Just like you will not respond to the almost 10 passages I gave that say Jesus is God in the other thread.

You cannot convince anyone to admit your oneness is correct. That's why you are angry and you are taking it out on me because I am an easy target. Who is continually responding to you? I know MM is patiently responding to you but you are belittling him too.

I need not convince you. The scripture itself should be enough to do that. Mm belittles everyone. If he cant take it he shouldn't dish it, and he certainly doesn't need you to defend him.

 

[Mysteryman]

You have more textual evidence which goes against the trinity than you do for it.

Irrelevant.

And even when trying to prove the trinity through verses, the verses presented are vague and highly interpretive.

I know it sounds like I'm beating a dead horse, but what about Jn. 20:28?

Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side; do not be faithless, but believing." 28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe." (John (RSV) 20)

How can you say this verse is vague?

Hi dadof10

Yes, this is obviously one of your pet verses, as you harp upon it as much as you can. :rolling

God , his Father, who was in heaven, raised him from the dead. Thomas was acknowledging this is what happened. Jesus didn't get himself up, because he is not God. His Father is God, and his God is our God, who raised His Son from the dead.

Now all you have to do, is believe that this is true.

 

[dadof10]

Hi dadof10

Yes, this is obviously one of your pet verses, as you harp upon it as much as you can. :rolling

I never denied it. I just don't ignore or completely misinterpret other verses the SEEM to contradict it IN FAVOR of Jn. 20:28. I have, and will continue to, gladly admit that Jesus has a God, that the Father is Jesus' God, because to do so does not violate any Scriptural passages or concepts.

God , his Father, who was in heaven, raised him from the dead. Thomas was acknowledging this is what happened.

"Thomas answered him..." or, in the KJV "And Thomas answered and said unto him..."

The Greek words are "kai Thomas apokrinomai kai eipon autos..."

Here is the definition of the word apokrinomai

1) to give an answer to a question proposed, to answer

2) to begin to speak, but always where something has preceded (either said or done) to which the remarks refer

What PRECEDED Thomas' exclamation? Where did Jesus say anything about God raising Him from the dead?

Now all you have to do, is believe that this is true.

And all you need to do is follow your own advice.

 

[shad]

Christ is perfect

who says He is not?

Not only am i not angry, I did not call you judgmental, what that scripture meant was you were accusing people of doing things that you do, not about judging.

You have been belittling me and MM. Is this Christian manner? Is that how you treat other believers? You are indicating you are perfect because Jesus is perfect.

The scripture itself should be enough to do that. Mm belittles everyone. If he cant take it he shouldn't dish it, and he certainly doesn't need you to defend him.

Defend who?

 

[jasoncran]

if you have to break simple rules of grammer to make your case when looking at verses that allegedly support your case then you have no arguement.

if its that obvious then why not accept, you claim to be saved,does it matter to you if the trinity is the truth? i mean if you claim that the lord christ is the person who saved you, then if he is a part of the trinity how does acceptance of that negate your salvation?

if you know that you have confesse he is lord, and claim that, then why are you fighting over the obvious as it wont effect salvation if you do.

 

[shad]

Dad,

This is about vague verses clear verses.

(1) If the verses you are using are clear, then why the doctrine of trinity is being stumbling block to many?
(2)Why do you say the trinity is a mystery if the verses you are using are clear?

You have been avoiding my questions about it.

 

[Mysteryman]

Quote dadof10 -- ". I have, and will continue to, gladly admit that Jesus has a God, that the Father is Jesus' God, "
----------------------------------

Hi dadof10

Wouldn't that mean that there are two gods in your belief then ? Yes, Jesus has a God, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you are going to call Jesus a god, and then glady admit that Jesus has a God, then by shear logic, that would be two gods instead of one God. Unless, what you are trying to tell us, is that Jesus is not God, but that the God and Father or our Lord Jesus Christ is the one and only God < Is this what you are trying to say ?

 

[dadof10]

Dad,

This is about vague verses clear verses.

(1) If the verses you are using are clear, then why the doctrine of trinity is being stumbling block to many?

Because "many" don't follow Christ's teachings, they follow the teachings of heretics like EGW. The doctrine of the Trinity is hard to understand, yes. But don't you think that the nature of God should be?

You still have not defined what you consider "unclear verses" (unless you defined it on another thread, on another forum, in another life...). Is your definition "any verse that can be applied to the doctrine of the Trinity"?

(2)Why do you say the trinity is a mystery if the verses you are using are clear?

See above. Define what you consider 'unclear". Is Jn. 20;28 'unclear'?

You have been avoiding my questions about it.

No I haven't I just posted the answers on another thread. Find them. :D

 

[dadof10]

Quote dadof10 -- ". I have, and will continue to, gladly admit that Jesus has a God, that the Father is Jesus' God, "
----------------------------------

Hi dadof10

Wouldn't that mean that there are two gods in your belief then ? Yes, Jesus has a God, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. If you are going to call Jesus a god, and then glady admit that Jesus has a God, then by shear logic, that would be two gods instead of one God. Unless, what you are trying to tell us, is that Jesus is not God, but that the God and Father or our Lord Jesus Christ is the one and only God < Is this what you are trying to say ?

I notice you completely ignored my exegesis of Jn. 20:28. That's about par.

Jesus has two natures. One human, one Divine. Why do you keep ignoring this fact? Even if you don't agree with it, at least stop saying Trinitarians believe there are two Gods. This is not accurate. There is one God and He is three distinct Persons. A Trinity.

Will you at least clarify your position on Who Jesus is? You mentioned in the other thread that "Jesus is not created". If He is uncreated, doesn't that make Him, in some way, God?

Please don't ignore this again.

 

[jasoncran]

odd, since i was an anti-trinitarian. i came to accept trinitarism not by logic, but accepting what is plainly taught and written in the bible.

 

[shad]

[

Because "many" don't follow Christ's teachings, they follow the teachings of heretics like EGW.

You are following Catholic doctrines.

The doctrine of the Trinity is hard to understand, yes. But don't you think that the nature of God should be?

God and Jesus' identity are not difficult to understand. Catholics made it up. You are creating division with this doctrine, so much so that your church persecuted your opposers.

You still have not defined what you consider "unclear verses" (unless you defined it on another thread, on another forum, in another life...). Is your definition "any verse that can be applied to the doctrine of the Trinity"?

Mocking is not Christian like.

Define what you consider 'unclear".

If your backing for the trinity is clear, then why so much confusion among trinitarians? Why is trinity is so difficult to understand if the verses you are backing up with are so clear?

You logic is mystic just like your doctrines.

 

[dadof10]

[

Because "many" don't follow Christ's teachings, they follow the teachings of heretics like EGW.

You are following Catholic doctrines.

Your point?

Define what you consider 'unclear".

[quote:jaabvfe7]If your backing for the trinity is clear, then why so much confusion among trinitarians? Why is trinity is so difficult to understand if the verses you are backing up with are so clear?

You logic is mystic just like your doctrines.

[/quote:jaabvfe7]

Still no answers. Typical...

 

[shad]

[

Because "many" don't follow Christ's teachings, they follow the teachings of heretics like EGW.

You are following Catholic doctrines.

Your point?

You just commented about protestants following their leaders. And you are following your organization. What's the difference?

Still no answers. Typical...

Just because you dont like my reasoning does not mean I did not answer. Please stop lying. I have misjudged you. I thought you were decent like Francis. I don't agree with him but he has a good Christian manner.

 

[dadof10]

You just commented about protestants following their leaders. And you are following your organization. What's the difference?

The difference is that EGW is not a "Protestant leader", she is the leader of the SDAs who are considered a cult by almost all of Protestantism.

[quote:o6pzrkfl]Still no answers. Typical...

Just because you dont like my reasoning does not mean I did not answer.

[/quote:o6pzrkfl]

I asked you to simply define what you mean by "unclear verses". I asked you if Jn. 20:28 was "unclear". You respond with:

If your backing for the trinity is clear, then why so much confusion among trinitarians? Why is trinity is so difficult to understand if the verses you are backing up with are so clear?

You logic is mystic just like your doctrines.

I'm asking you for a simple definition of what you consider "unclear", and you can't give me one because it's so subjective. When you want a way out of CRYSTAL CLEAR VERSES like Jn. 20:28 that contradict EGW's doctrines, you cry "unclear, mystical"!!!.

Please stop lying.

Please point out to me, like I did for you earlier, where I'm lying.

I thought you were decent like Francis. I don't agree with him but he has a good Christian manner.

Yes, he does. Now there's something we can agree on.

BTW, there is no "confusion" among Trinitarians. We disagree on some of the finer aspects of a doctrine. Why do you think that if people disagree on nuances of doctrine the doctrine is suspect? That's not sound reasoning because ALL denominations disagree on some points of doctrine, otherwise they wouldn't be denominations. Does that mean all doctrines are "confusing" and "difficult to understand", and therefore false? This is a strange litmus test, indeed.

 

[shad]

The difference is that EGW is not a "Protestant leader", she is the leader of the SDAs who are considered a cult by almost all of Protestantism.

They are considered cult by trinitarians. You are ostracizing another organization just because you dont agree with one of their doctrines.

I'm asking you for a simple definition of what you consider "unclear", and you can't give me one because it's so subjective. When you want a way out of CRYSTAL CLEAR VERSES like Jn. 20:28 that contradict EGW's doctrines, you cry "unclear, mystical"!!!.

You are lying again. I showed you where I responded and you replied with a belittling remark.

Jn 20:28 is not a clear translation because it is out of context with other clear verses. Jesus never said He is our God. He says over and over He is Son of God and His Father is His God. I know you don't agree with me. Just drop it like a man.

Please point out to me, like I did for you earlier, where I'm lying.

You sinking low with your frustration and lies.
That's the difference between you and Francis, He knows when to quit, and you dont seem to know when and start childish arguments.

BTW, there is no "confusion" among Trinitarians.

If there is no confusion then why do some believe Jesus is YHWH and He is equal with His Father? This is great confusion.

You are getting repetitive. It seems you are out of fresh arguments. It is time to quit the childish banter.

take care.

 

[dadof10]

The difference is that EGW is not a "Protestant leader", she is the leader of the SDAs who are considered a cult by almost all of Protestantism.

They are considered cult by trinitarians.

Right, Trinitarians are the ones who make up MOST OF PROTESTANTISM. SDA is not considered mainstream by the VAST MAJORITY of Protestantism, it is considered a cult.

Jn 20:28 is not a clear translation because it is out of context with other clear verses.

So you bring your preconceived bias (the "clear verses") into the text, and verses that don't agree with it are pronounced "not clear"? It is as I said a while back, "unclear verses" to you are the ones that prove the Trinity.

Just drop it like a man.

"Like a man"? You first, there, stud.

You are getting repetitive. It seems you are out of fresh arguments. It is time to quit the childish banter.

 

[PouringRain]

Who is EGW and what are SDA's?

Ellen G. White and Seventh Day Adventists. Ellen G. White is basically the founder of the Seventh Day Adventists.


I never knew Christians considered SDA's a cult till I came on-line, and I've been in hundreds of protestant churches worldwide. I even attended SDA schools in some places we lived and their church a couple of times as well. I have no problem with SDA's.

 

[PouringRain]

OH OK, YEAH i KNOW ABOUT THEM.

Are they considered a cult where you come from?