God will not convict believers of sin!

[Willie T]

They are praying for the kingdom to come, has the kingdom come?
Was the new covenant in effect at that time or were they still under the law?
Had Jesus died for all our sins at that time?

(Just to make it clear.... I agree)
So many people forget that very important fact.
They do the same thing when they quote the parable of the Rich Young Ruler.

 

[Brother Mike]

Oh my, I feel a Greek lesson coming on! Maybe even a female noun or verb.

You are thinking like an American.

Convict may mean found guilty in English, but not in the Greek!

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8 NKJV

And when he is come , he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8 KJV

Reprove - Strong's Number: 1651 - Elegcho
Definition

1. to convict, refute, confute
   1. generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
   2. by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2. to find fault with, correct
   1. by word
      1. to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
      2. to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
   2. by deed
      1. to chasten, to punish

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; Hebrews 12:5

God chastens and corrects and rebukes and yes even punishes His children.


JLB

Yes, JLB I alread quoted the scritpure He reproves the World of sin. We are not of this World.......... And you would do good to look up Chastise as it means instruction in the Word.

Now, Its the Conscience that gets convicted.......... We do that, not the Holy Spirit.

Joh 8:9 kjva And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Being convicted of their own What?
What does that say JLB?

You don't need Greek to figure this one out.

They are praying for the kingdom to come, has the kingdom come?
Was the new covenant in effect at that time or were they still under the law?
Had Jesus died for all our sins at that time?

The new covenant had nothing to do with "Kingdom Coming" Jesus, anointed by the Holy Spirit came to enforce the will of God on earth.

Mat 6:10 YLT `Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

Jesus enforced the will of God here on earth, "BEFORE" He went to the cross.

 

[ezra]

QUESTION why does it all boil down to a i am right and you are wrong ------>{Like I said, you seem to have this childish need to play word games.} every forum i go to it ends up like this. nothing wrong with disagreeing but does the word Childish and play games have to be? i really thought this forum would be different . i like to post in a forum for Calvinism vs Arminianism - o goodness does it get heated . CAN WE JUST TAKE DEEP BREATH AND CHILL remember we are brothers sisters in the Lord ?

 

[Deborah13]

Yes, JLB I alread quoted the scritpure He reproves the World of sin. We are not of this World.......... And you would do good to look up Chastise as it means instruction in the Word.

Now, Its the Conscience that gets convicted.......... We do that, not the Holy Spirit.

Joh 8:9 kjva And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Being convicted of their own What?
What does that say JLB?

You don't need Greek to figure this one out.



The new covenant had nothing to do with "Kingdom Coming" Jesus, anointed by the Holy Spirit came to enforce the will of God on earth.

Mat 6:10 YLT `Thy reign come: Thy will come to pass, as in heaven also on the earth.

Jesus enforced the will of God here on earth, "BEFORE" He went to the cross.

Do you think they are making a statement that the kingdom had come?
I didn't say that the kingdom coming was the same as the new covenant, they are individual questions. I asked individual questions. Please do not mix them together.

 

[Brother Mike]

Do you think they are making a statement that the kingdom had come?
I didn't say that the kingdom coming was the same as the new covenant, they are individual questions. I asked individual questions. Please do not mix them together.

I know JLB believers the "KINGDOM" is here and now.

I don't know what is being asked then. The kingdom is here and now though for those that will walk in it.

 

[Brother Mike]

QUESTION why does it all boil down to a i am right and you are wrong ------>{Like I said, you seem to have this childish need to play word games.} every forum i go to it ends up like this. nothing wrong with disagreeing but does the word Childish and play games have to be? i really thought this forum would be different . i like to post in a forum for Calvinism vs Arminianism - o goodness does it get heated . CAN WE JUST TAKE DEEP BREATH AND CHILL remember we are brothers sisters in the Lord ?

In the forums it is. Through this though you get to see many different scriptures and I have personally learned a lot in the forums though it's a battleground at times.

There are a few that actually get help and light. Most come with all the light they want and learn nothing.

Calvinism vs Arminianism both are junk doctrines...............Arminianism keeps God's soverighenity (spelling) through His foreknowledge. Calvinist keep it through God's divine will nobody can resist.

Both junk doctrines......... Just saying.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

They are praying for the kingdom to come, has the kingdom come?
Was the new covenant in effect at that time or were they still under the law?
Had Jesus died for all our sins at that time?

Deborah, honestly, I've lost all respect for you. I kept giving you the benefit of the doubt about things, but I can't anymore.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah, honestly, I've lost all respect for you. I kept giving you the benefit of the doubt about things, but I can't anymore.

That's OK.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's OK.

Well of course it is. You don't believe in being convicted.

 

[ezra]

In the forums it is. Through this though you get to see many different scriptures and I have personally learned a lot in the forums though it's a battleground at times.

There are a few that actually get help and light. Most come with all the light they want and learn nothing.

Calvinism vs Arminianism both are junk doctrines...............Arminianism keeps God's soverighenity (spelling) through His foreknowledge. Calvinist keep it through God's divine will nobody can resist.

Both junk doctrines......... Just saying.

i find both sides have valid points its a who lot like eating chicken ya eat the meat and throw the bones a way. i have yet to find any one person who knows it. i have met some who THINK they do. if someone wants play hard ball that i can do no problem at all.its not my 1st rodeo

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now, Its the Conscience that gets convicted.......... We do that, not the Holy Spirit.

The mistake you're making is not realizing that the conscience is a vehicle through which more than just our own minds speaks. Conscience is educated by God too. We know this from Romans 2:15 NASB.

When I was 18 years old, and quite lost, a pastor explained to me how conscience was proof of God. It was a major revelation that helped me get saved about five years later.

 

[Deborah13]

Well of course it is. You don't believe in being convicted.

It's OK because my life with the Lord is not based on others respecting me, as long as they respect Him, which I believe you do.

 

[Brother Mike]

The mistake you're making is not realizing that the conscience is a vehicle through which more than just our own minds speaks. Conscience is educated by God too. We know this from Romans 2:15 NASB.

When I was 18 years old, and quite lost, a pastor explained to me how conscience was proof of God. It was a major revelation that helped me get saved about five years later.

The unsaved have a conscience also. I also believe it's God that put our conscience in there, and if the law is written on our heart, it should effect our conscience and choices.

Everyone has a different conscience about things, Paul saying why should I be judged by another mans conscience.

However, God gave us hands also, and if I burn my hand that God gave, it's not God's fault, neither is it God that convicts us through our own conscience He gave us.

That was the whole thing of the OP.......... The Statement was that the Holy Spirit does not convict us.

i find both sides have valid points its a who lot like eating chicken ya eat the meat and throw the bones a way. i have yet to find any one person who knows it. i have met some who THINK they do. if someone wants play hard ball that i can do no problem at all.its not my 1st rodeo

We need another thread for this, not my first Rodeo also.

Election-Calivinsim-Predestination-No free will
Foreknowledge-Arminianism-Free will, But........God knows all choices.

There is no such thing as Arminianism. it would have to revert to election.

God knew before the foundation of the World Adam would blow it. Adam made a choice that God knew He would make............ Arminianism.

God made Adam blow it, Adam was doomed from the start to fill the Plan of God and Salvation. ..............Election.

Forknowledge is the same as knowing the plan that will happen anyway. If God knew, yet Set Adam in the Garden with the currect conditions God placed Adam in, then it's no longer Foreknowledge or Arminianism.

Knowing something and going through with it is Election.

The only way Arminiansim would work is for God to just be clueless until He looked into the crystal ball at times and said, "Ah, that is what is going to happen,"

That can't be the case, so Knowledge of what is going to happen with a man as God puts the spirit in man means God is doing so knowing the outcome. That is called election.

So it has to be Calvinsim. Calvinism is also wrong though.

 

[ezra]

not that i expect you to agree nor do i care but we are 3 part being soul spirit body just like the trinity combined they make up one but yet each are separate. they all work together .

 

[ezra]

So it has to be Calvinsim. Calvinism is also wrong though.

really not interested

 

[JLB]

Yes, JLB I alread quoted the scritpure He reproves the World of sin. We are not of this World.......... And you would do good to look up Chastise as it means instruction in the Word.

Now, Its the Conscience that gets convicted.......... We do that, not the Holy Spirit.

Joh 8:9 kjva And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

Being convicted of their own What?
What does that say JLB?

You don't need Greek to figure this one out.

I see you missed the scripture I quoted and the point.

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; Hebrews 12:5

The same Greek word in John 8 that is redered convict, is also reprove and rebuke here in this verse.

Notice it is God chastning His son by rebuking or reproving or convicting him.

It is for correction.

The word does not mean "found guilty of".


King James Word Usage - Total: 17
reprove 6, rebuke 5, convince 4, tell (one's) fault 1, convict 1

1. to convict, refute, confute
   1. generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
   2. by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2. to find fault with, correct
   1. by word
      1. to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
      2. to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
   2. by deed
      1. to chasten, to punish

If God does not correct us convict us rebuke us tell us our fault, then we are not His Children.

The Holy Spirit convicts and reproves and corrects and chastens us as God's children.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

...neither is it God that convicts us through our own conscience He gave us.

You're doing it again. You're saying God can not be a source of knowledge and discernment for a man's conscience, but lots of other voices can be.

I showed you the passage where the Apostles hearts were burning in them before they knew that the person explaining the scriptures to them was Christ. Where does this experience fall in your doctrine?

You of all people should know God speaking to a man and convicting him of the truth is the very essence of faith. The Spirit being a source of knowledge outside of himself that speaks to him.

 

[Brother Mike]

You're doing it again. You're saying God can not be a source of knowledge and discernment for a man's conscience, but lots of other voices can be.

I showed you the passage where the Apostles hearts were burning in them before they knew that the person explaining the scriptures to them was Christ. Where does this experience fall in your doctrine?

You of all people should know God speaking to a man and convicting him of the truth is the very essence of faith. The Spirit being a source of knowledge outside of himself that speaks to him.

OK JETHRO. It could be I need to understand where your coming from. I am sorry, but I should have asked you to start.

We know our own Conscience can feel bad, and even condemn us before God. (1John) That is not a good thing, as God is faithful to forgive, but our own heart holds on to sin forgiven.

We know our conscience can not have faith to eat or do something. Anything not of faith is sin.

We know God reveals to us things we are not perfect minded about.

So what in your experience or understanding does being "Convicted" mean. Is it how you feel, or is it just information God gives you to change something. What are you saying you experience if your being convicted by God.

I should have asked sooner, as we are both on the same scriptures but looking at things a bit different.

Be blessed Brother.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We know our own Conscience can feel bad, and even condemn us before God. (1John)

Right. That's called an uninformed conscience. That's what the Romans 14 passage you bring up is about. Paul says the person who has a check in his conscience about eating something lacks knowledge, or lacks accurate knowledge. But the person who has that knowledge has a conscience that allows him to eat, not a lack of a conscience. Just an educated conscience. So we can see from that passage that conscience has many inputs from which it operates. The Holy Spirit is definitely one of those.

That is not a good thing, as God is faithful to forgive, but our own heart holds on to sin forgiven.

Our own heart holds on because their is other information from other sources educating our conscience. We don't necessarily hold on because God does not speak to us that way, but because there are other voices in competition with his voice educating our conscience.

We know our conscience can not have faith to eat or do something.

I disagree completely. It is exactly the conscience that allows us to eat, just as it is the conscience that doesn't allow us to eat.

So what in your experience or understanding does being "Convicted" mean. Is it how you feel, or is it just information God gives you to change something.

It's both, information and feeling. God teaches me truths, and my conscience--if I accept that truth--becomes programmed to confirm that truth to me. Conscience often washes over us in the form of feelings.

When God reveals things that are true to me I become convinced of that truth (if I want to be), and my conscience gets educated in that truth accordingly. I'm confident no one has any problem accepting that. But if that which is true that is being revealed to me is in regard to wrong-doing, that convincing will have an element of shame and judgment about it and so we attach the connotation of conviction to it. Now all of a sudden people do have a problem with God working that way and want to say it isn't that way, and can't be that way, even though it's the exact same thing going on--God educating my mind and my conscience about what is true. I don't think that's fair and rational thought to differentiate between the two on the basis that one is good, and the other is bad from a human stand point.

 

[reba]

This is just not you ...