God will not convict believers of sin!

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper!

Do you believe that James is describing the same person in verse 19 as he is in verse 20?

In other words is the "him" in verse 19, also described as the "sinner" of verse 20?


Thanks JLB

Something went wrong and my reply didn't show up. My answer is yes.

 

[Chopper]

Lots of interesting versions. I find it very simple.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
HELLO!

 

[Brother Mike]

and not sure as to what your saying { Conviction is a flesh ruled feeling,} so the spirit has nothing to do with conviction ?

Convictions means your guilty. The Holy Spirit does not tell you, your guilty. He does not even speak of his own but what he hears.

We are on page 8, and this has already been covered several times.

How would you know you were convicted? You would have to "FEEL" bad.

There is another force in play scriptures talk a whole lot about. It's called Conscience. YOUR CONSCIENCE.

YOUR CONSCIENCE can feel bad, your own heart can condemn you for what you allow.

Most believers don't even realize that Conscience is mentioned in 30 different scriptures.

YOUR CONSCIENCE will condemn you, sometimes for no good reason at all, but God put that in us to keep us out of sin and do right.

When believers do something they know is wrong, they will say...... Man the Holy Spirit is really convicting me.......

NO, YOU Violated the light God gave you and your conscience is bothering you. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with that.

When we are doing things God would not have us do, He Chastises us.......... (Instruction in the Word, nuture)
The Holy Spirit gets involved to guide................ guide................ guide........ us into all truth, not convict us.

Chastise means to instruct, to nuture, to correct, IN the Greek as school children.

Look up conscience in a concordance and read all those scriptures. You will see that "Conviction" feeling and what the Conscience does for and against us.

The conscience is Flesh, it can protect us, it can condemn us for no reason. Such as eating the meats sacrificed to idols which Idols are nothing Paul said. That is where the idea of being convicted by the Holy Spirit comes from. Folks are switching natural and carnal for what is the Holy Spirit.

Be blessed.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Lots of interesting versions. I find it very simple.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
HELLO!

Whoa! You just hit it out of the stadium....with bases loaded! Way to go!

High fives all around as Chopper makes his way into the dugout.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Convictions means your guilty. The Holy Spirit does not tell you, your guilty. He does not even speak of his own but what he hears.

We are on page 8, and this has already been covered several times.

How would you know you were convicted? You would have to "FEEL" bad.

There is another force in play scriptures talk a whole lot about. It's called Conscience. YOUR CONSCIENCE.

YOUR CONSCIENCE can feel bad, your own heart can condemn you for what you allow.

Most believers don't even realize that Conscience is mentioned in 30 different scriptures.

YOUR CONSCIENCE will condemn you, sometimes for no good reason at all, but God put that in us to keep us out of sin and do right.

When believers do something they know is wrong, they will say...... Man the Holy Spirit is really convicting me.......

NO, YOU Violated the light God gave you and your conscience is bothering you. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with that.

When we are doing things God would not have us do, He Chastises us.......... (Instruction in the Word, nuture)
The Holy Spirit gets involved to guide................ guide................ guide........ us into all truth, not convict us.

Chastise means to instruct, to nuture, to correct, IN the Greek as school children.

Look up conscience in a concordance and read all those scriptures. You will see that "Conviction" feeling and what the Conscience does for and against us.

The conscience is Flesh, it can protect us, it can condemn us for no reason. Such as eating the meats sacrificed to idols which Idols are nothing Paul said. That is where the idea of being convicted by the Holy Spirit comes from. Folks are switching natural and carnal for what is the Holy Spirit.

Be blessed.

I think you're drawing the lines of your doctrine too rigidly: :

27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. 32 They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?" (Luke 24:27 NASB, Luke 24:31-32 NASB)

 

[ezra]

Convictions means your guilty. The Holy Spirit does not tell you, your guilty. He does not even speak of his own but what he hears.

We are on page 8, and this has already been covered several times.

How would you know you were convicted? You would have to "FEEL" bad.

There is another force in play scriptures talk a whole lot about. It's called Conscience. YOUR CONSCIENCE.

YOUR CONSCIENCE can feel bad, your own heart can condemn you for what you allow.

Most believers don't even realize that Conscience is mentioned in 30 different scriptures.

YOUR CONSCIENCE will condemn you, sometimes for no good reason at all, but God put that in us to keep us out of sin and do right.

When believers do something they know is wrong, they will say...... Man the Holy Spirit is really convicting me.......

NO, YOU Violated the light God gave you and your conscience is bothering you. The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with that.

When we are doing things God would not have us do, He Chastises us.......... (Instruction in the Word, nuture)
The Holy Spirit gets involved to guide................ guide................ guide........ us into all truth, not convict us.

Chastise means to instruct, to nuture, to correct, IN the Greek as school children.

Look up conscience in a concordance and read all those scriptures. You will see that "Conviction" feeling and what the Conscience does for and against us.

The conscience is Flesh, it can protect us, it can condemn us for no reason. Such as eating the meats sacrificed to idols which Idols are nothing Paul said. That is where the idea of being convicted by the Holy Spirit comes from. Folks are switching natural and carnal for what is the Holy Spirit.

Be blessed.

feel free to believe that way .the holy spirit leads guides directs us to all truth. IE: the spirit of truth why would the Spirit show us truth if we was wrong? wrong in scripture actions etc... { The Holy Spirit gets involved to guide................ guide................ guide........ us into all truth, not convict us.} once a gain if were wrong we are guilty . this is not a 1st for me on this subject.. you will have to stand by your belief and i will stand by mine

 

[Chopper]

Whoa! You just hit it out of the stadium....with bases loaded! Way to go!

High fives all around as Chopper makes his way into the dugout.

Thanks Pal, we both are good batters....Keep those good comments coming.

 

[Jesse]

what happens when we have dead works? this subject imo has nothing to do with losing our salvation. but rather God does Chastise us he uses the holy spirit -conviction the spirit of trurh whom the Lord loves he chastises
Hebrews 12:6-11New King James Version (NKJV)
6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives.”

7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons.9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paidthem respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed bestto them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. .same as the parable of the true vine. any branch that does not bear fruit he removes so other parts may produce.

Hi ezra, I've been enjoying your posts!

The verse you offered above, reminded me of the following verse, like Hebrews say, being disciplined by the Lord when we stumble is for our benefit - rejoice in all things!

1 Corinthians 11:27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

 

[ezra]

Hi ezra, I've been enjoying your posts!

The verse you offered above, reminded me of the following verse, like Hebrews say, being disciplined by the Lord when we stumble is for our benefit - rejoice in all things!

1 Corinthians 11:27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

i enjoy posting in Bible forums some time i post with flare lol. i do enjoy a good Bible discussion i have belonged to this one for some time. i decided see if it was active and it is..

 

[Brother Mike]

feel free to believe that way .the holy spirit leads guides directs us to all truth. IE: the spirit of truth why would the Spirit show us truth if we was wrong? wrong in scripture actions etc... { The Holy Spirit gets involved to guide................ guide................ guide........ us into all truth, not convict us.} once a gain if were wrong we are guilty . this is not a 1st for me on this subject.. you will have to stand by your belief and i will stand by mine

A persons that says they are "Christian" should believe scripture. Where is your verse the Holy Spirit Convicts the believer of sin. Convicts means found guilty of.

I can give pleanty on Conscience, and how God instructs.

To believe something, you need something called a scripture, it's not a matter of you believing what you want. A believer, believes scriptures.

I think you're drawing the lines of your doctrine too rigidly: :

27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures.
31 Then their eyes were opened and they recognized Him; and He vanished from their sight. 32 They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while He was speaking to us on the road, while He was explaining the Scriptures to us?" (Luke 24:27 NASB, Luke 24:31-32 NASB)

Well, the whole title of the thread was to shock folks into thinking. That was the purpose. We want to pull at hairs and lazer focus on exact scripture, then we can.

That conviction feeling you feel after commiting sin, or doing something goofy comes straight from our heart and conscience. John said if our hearts condemn us not (for things we allow) then we have confidence toward God.

Paul talked a lot about our conscience, and it can convict us. such as those guys eating food sacrificed to idols. Though it was OK, they felt condemned for doing it since they still has some faith in idols.

The Holy Spirit shows us things we are not perfect minded in. Things we don't even know needed changed and we all have lots more things to change.

God instructs us with the Word and through his people as all scripture is for reproof and doctrine.

Paul said if we judge ourselves.......... we won't be judged...

That would indicate that if we sin and blow it, we have to get ourselves right as we already know we messed up. The Holy Spirit don't have to do a thing but help us get things worked out. We don't need "Convicted"

That is all I am saying Jethro..................... Lots of believers say...... "Man the Holy Spirit is really convicting me of this." and it's not the Holy Spirit, they went against their own conscience, and need to fix it.

I am not trying to be rigid, the whole thread was desgined to shock and make folks think.

So you study the scriptures about Conscience and you will see this. No matter how you fix a sin though, as long as it's fixed and your right with God, that is the important thing.

Blessings.

 

[Jesse]

If we do something wrong, as in a sin, then we are guilty of that sin.

If I speed, I'm guilty of speeding. It's really just common sense.

Thank God that He lets us know so we can grow and mature.

 

[ezra]

A persons that says they are "Christian" should believe scripture. Where is your verse the Holy Spirit Convicts the believer of sin. Convicts means found guilty of.

I can give pleanty on Conscience, and how God instructs.

To believe something, you need something called a scripture, it's not a matter of you believing what you want. A believer, believes scriptures.

i gave scripture you just redefine words...as i said i have been down this road before .i gave my stance you rejected i will sleep just fine tonight. i stand alone on lots areas i used peter as a example with the rooster o yes he was convicted he knew he was wrong in denying Christ . but one thing come the day of Pentecost he preached a straight forward message with conviction and chastisement .end results 3 thousand souls saved . in today church we do good to see 3 a year .its been good and i still stand where i am... have good sunday

 

[ezra]

If we do something wrong, as in a sin, then we are guilty of that sin.

If I speed, I'm guilty of speeding. It's really just common sense.

amen i agree

 

[JLB]

Would you be so kind as to roll your mouse over the verse you quoted? That's 2 Corinthians 5:21 (Since you seem to want to address specific wording)

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 NKJV

He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 NASV

God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:21 NIV

for him who did not know sin, in our behalf He did make sin, that we may become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 YLT

Him who knew no sin he made [to be] sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 ASV

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 2 Corinthians 5:21 RSV

He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 HCS


Now lets look at the King James, because it also says the same thing, which is why all the Translators of all the major accepted versions, all translate this verse the same.

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV


Made - Strong's Number: 1096 - Ginomai

Definition

1. to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2. to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
   1. of events
3. to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
   1. of men appearing in public
4. to be made, finished
   1. of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5. to become, be made

It denotes a process.

A process of becoming something that you are not, without the process happening to you.


This is the exact same phrase used in John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:12

This denotes a process of maturing and developing and growing up into the fullness and staute of a perfect and complete son of God just like Jesus.

The process of transformation.


JLB

 

[Willie T]

Like I said, you seem to have this childish need to play word games.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Not gonna add anything to it.

 

[Willie T]

Too deep for me.

 

[JLB]

A persons that says they are "Christian" should believe scripture. Where is your verse the Holy Spirit Convicts the believer of sin. Convicts means found guilty of.

Oh my, I feel a Greek lesson coming on! Maybe even a female noun or verb.

You are thinking like an American.

Convict may mean found guilty in English, but not in the Greek!

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8 NKJV

And when he is come , he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: John 16:8 KJV

Reprove - Strong's Number: 1651 - Elegcho
Definition

1. to convict, refute, confute
   1. generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
   2. by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
2. to find fault with, correct
   1. by word
      1. to reprehend severely, chide, admonish, reprove
      2. to call to account, show one his fault, demand an explanation
   2. by deed
      1. to chasten, to punish

And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; Hebrews 12:5

God chastens and corrects and rebukes and yes even punishes His children.


JLB

 

[Willie T]

Why are you not accentuating the correct word?..... WORLD.

It's "convicting" the WORLD, not believers... as the title of this thread states.

 

[Deborah13]

Lots of interesting versions. I find it very simple.
Matthew 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
6:12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
HELLO!

They are praying for the kingdom to come, has the kingdom come?
Was the new covenant in effect at that time or were they still under the law?
Had Jesus died for all our sins at that time?