God's Kingdom on Earth

[Lehigh3]

felix said:

This [same] Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

And what was the manner that He went into heaven? Do you know? OK, the verse before tells us "the cloud received Him" to heaven. And so, the Pharisees & leaders of the Jews would see Him come on the glory cloud from the right hand of power, from which they denied! (Matt.24:30; 26:64)

Ha! Stormcrow! I was posting the same, but I'll post it anyway!

felix said:

The Word became Flesh, not Spirit. If Christ said He is coming, then He will come physically to this earth in Flesh.

That's an easy one. John the apostle was referring to his bearing witness to Christ coming in the flesh. John was one of the 12 apostles who Jesus chose.

And if He will return in the flesh, where in scripture does He say that?
In fact Jesus i a supernatural body now- very possibly just like on the mount of transfiguration.
And Paul had a vision of the risen Christ at his conversion time. Jesus didn't look like He did on earth eating fish. Also John had a vision of the risen Christ amongst the lampstands in Rev. Jesus didn't look anything like He did "in the flesh" - as John described Him. Also, Christ returned in Rev.19 with "a sword in his mouth"
If that is what futurists use as His second coming literally, I doubt He'd have a sword hanging from His mouth in the flesh!

Again, where does Jesus say anything about returning a second time in the flesh?

 

[Drew]

{18} And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Matthew 28:18 (NASB)

I use this text often to make a point on which it appears we agree: Jesus has already been enthroned of a kingdom that is already here.So on this we seem to agree. But it is an entirely different matter as to whether the work of the kingdom has been fully achieved.

I suggest that it clearly has not - death and evil have yet to be defeated. Consequently, we must conclude that the kingdom, although here, has yet to be fully consummated.

Remember - He must reign until all enemies are defeated, the last on being death.

To suggest that the work of the Kingdom - including the defeat of death - requires one to embrace gnosticism: the belief that the "physical" is of lesser importance and therefore that the continued presence of physical death does not mean that the Kingdom is not yet fully here.

This goes against the broad theme that the physical creation is good and will indeed be redeemed.

Until physical death has been defeated, Jesus is not in a position to hand over the keys to the Father.

It seems to me that you are forced to trivialize the matter of physical death as if its continued presence is not any kind of sign that death has yet to be defeated. That seems to be a very hard position to sustain in light of the fact that it is physical death that was the consequence of the fall.

To me it seems clear that until the Fall has been fully reversed, the kingdom is not fully consummated.

 

[Drew]

{22} For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. {23} But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, {24} then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 1 Corinthians 15:22-24 (NASB)

This text is not evidence against the position that I am supporting - that we are presently in a time of a kingdom that is here, yet whose work is not yet complete.

In fact it supports my position: First, Jesus is made alive - that happened 2000 years ago. You beg the question at issue if you assume that the "coming" at which the others are made alive has already happened. Besides, this very text you post suggests that this particular "coming" has yet to happen - I take it as self-evident that is decidedly not the case that "all authority and power" has been abolished. To suggest that this defeat is complete to make the decidedly odd move of suggesting that all the "powers" presently at work in our world really do not "count" as "real" authorities and powers.

Do you not think that it is a little odd?

Again, to make your position work (at least what I understand to be your position), you need to trivialize both the continued presence of physical death as well as the continued presence of authorities and powers that are decidedly at odds with what the kingdom should look like when it is fully realized.

I politely suggest that you are "redefining" terms and concepts to make your position work. For example, there is no Biblical basis to suggest that the defeat of death can be accomplished even though people continue to die. To suggest that it is only the "spiritual" aspect that counts (which you appear to be suggesting if I read between the lines) is to arbitrarily decide that physical death is not 'real' death. And I do not see how that can work Biblically, God made a physical universe and physical death and decay are things that need to be defeated before it can be claimed that God has fully redeemed His world.

We are such Platonists - influenced by non-Biblical Greek ideas about how the realm of the "spirit" is what really counts, and the realm of the physical is of lesser importance. This is not a Biblical idea.

 

[Stormcrow]

Again, to make your position work (at least what I understand to be your position), you need to trivialize both the continued presence of physical death as well as the continued presence of authorities and powers that are decidedly at odds with what the kingdom should look like when it is fully realized.

Not at all. You simply need to see Paul's words in Corinthians in light of what Christ said in Matthew 24, when He said His coming would happen "immediately after" the tribulation of those days.

Futurists understand the dilemma this presents, so they move "the tribulation of those days" off into the indefinite future. But if taken in context, it's clear exactly what the tribulation of those days was: the siege and ultimate destruction of Jerusalem at the hands of the Romans.

Since that is the signpost of everything that comes after, everything that comes after needs to be understood in its light.

I don't pretend to understand everything Paul wrote. Even Peter had a hard time grasping some of his writings. But when Christ tells us something so unequivocally clear as "immediately after", then we need to try to understand Paul in light of Christ's words, not the other way around.

 

[Beck]

We have to also take into consideration Acts 1:11 of which stated 'shall so come in like manner'.


11 who also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.”

Strong's G5158 - tropos τρόπος (like manner) Strong's G3739 - hos ὅς (as)

Now one can takes this literally or figuratively, and one example would be that it is as figurative can be found in the use that Jesus referred to himself as a hen that would gather her chickens under her wings.


Matthew 23:37 KJV “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

But more than this Jesus spoke of leaving to allow the Holy Spirit to come. It is in this 'manner' that I believe the ones speaking to the Disciples were using.



John 16:7 KJV “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.”

John 16:16, 18-20 KJV“A little while, and you will not see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me, because I go to My Father.

18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you


Looking closely at the above verses it becomes clear that Jesus is speaking of going away and coming back in the same context as sending the Holy Spirit. He says He is going away so that He can send the Holy Spirit, then He says He is coming back to them and that He and the Father will make their home with them. So from that context it appears that the particular “coming” that Jesus is talking about to the Disciples is the “coming” of the Holy Spirit.

And if one wanted to view the manner in which Jesus was taken that of a cloud it could also be said of the coming of the Holy Spirit coming as a mighty wind.


Acts 2:2 KJV And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting

 

[felix]

Stormcrow, I am not interested in your jesus who already came.

But my Jesus Christ will come again to receive me to Himself and take me to the mansion He had prepared.

No one is stopping you from staying in this word with your jesus.

 

[Lehigh3]

Figured, couldn't answer my simple question!!

Drew, physical death will never end. It is appointed for man to die once, then the judgment. What I learned in Christianity 101 was that we die physically then we live on spiritually like the angels in heaven.
There is nothing more or less written about heaven.
Jesus had to die physically for our sins so that we may live in God's presence, now & later.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stormcrow, I get a kick out of what lengths some will go to convince themselves their "right!"
I'm laughing some more with that "your jesus" line!
Can you imagine trying to be that possessive of Jesus verbally bc one wants their imagination to rule instead of what the scriptures say? ;)

 

[Lehigh3]

Stormcrow, I am not interested in your jesus who already came.

But my Jesus Christ will come again to receive me to Himself and take me to the mansion He had prepared.

No one is stopping you from staying in this word with your jesus.

Didn't Stephen say "Lord receive my spirit" when he was stoned to death?

Jesus "receives" us when we die.

You will be "received" bc you believed. That is the guarantee we have.

So, keep the faith brother- & it isn't about pulling Christ down from heaven!

 

[Stormcrow]

Stormcrow, I am not interested in your jesus who already came.

But my Jesus Christ will come again to receive me to Himself and take me to the mansion He had prepared.

No one is stopping you from staying in this word with your jesus.

I don't ask anyone to worship any Jesus anywhere. I simply put the verses out there and let you do with them as you will.

If you feel threatened by this, why are you in this thread?

 

[felix]

I don't ask anyone to worship any Jesus anywhere. I simply put the verses out there and let you do with them as you will.

If you feel threatened by this, why are you in this thread?

I am not feeling threatened, but I feel pity for how blind people are in understanding the simple Scripture truth.

 

[Stormcrow]

I am not feeling threatened, but I feel pity for how blind people are in understanding the simple Scripture truth.

{18} Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

{15} "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; {16} but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: {17} 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; Acts 2:15-17 (NASB)

Clearly, Peter preached that they were living in "the last days!"

{12} The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Romans 13:12 (NASB)

{12} Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, {13} each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 1 Corinthians 3:12-13 (NASB)

{25} not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25 (NASB)

{5} Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Philippians 4:5 (NASB)

{7} Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. {8} You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:7-8 (NASB)

{9} Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:9 (NASB)

(WHY WOULD JAMES TELL THEM TO BE PATIENT OR NOT TO COMPLAIN IF HE DIDN'T EXPECT THE LORD TO RETURN SOON???)

{7} The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

{1} The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

{3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:3 (NASB)

{6} And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)

{7} "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:7 (NASB)

{10} And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

(WHY WOULD THE RISEN AND ASCENDED LORD TELL JOHN TO KEEP THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OPEN IF HIS RETURN WEREN'T IMMINENT???)

{12} "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

(Reads a lot like Matthew 16:27, huh???)

{20} He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

I agree: it's simple. So why don't you believe it?

 

[felix]

Stormcrow,
You look from a perspective that God told his disciples that He would come soon and you try to fit in within that time frame. For God, a day is a thousand years. Since Christ haven't appeared yet, you try to give reasons which aren't in Scripture.

I did agree with you earlier that Christ said some prophecies regarding 70 AD but not all is over. I never trust what I believe is always true, rather, I always assume Scripture is the truth and I will align myself to fit Scripture.

Christ is not a Spirit but flesh and bones is a simple truth. Christ will come back to this world the same way he Went to heaven is a simple truth. Christ will not drink the fruit of vine until the kingdom of God comes is a simple truth. And we will be with Him together forever when He comes is a simple truth.
Why don't you understand this simple truth?

 

[Free]

{18} Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 1 John 2:18 (NASB)

{15} "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day; {16} but this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: {17} 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS; Acts 2:15-17 (NASB)

Clearly, Peter preached that they were living in "the last days!"

{12} The night is almost gone, and the day is near. Therefore let us lay aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Romans 13:12 (NASB)

{12} Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, {13} each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 1 Corinthians 3:12-13 (NASB)

{25} not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. Hebrews 10:25 (NASB)

{5} Let your gentle spirit be known to all men. The Lord is near. Philippians 4:5 (NASB)

{7} Therefore be patient, brethren, until the coming of the Lord. The farmer waits for the precious produce of the soil, being patient about it, until it gets the early and late rains. {8} You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. James 5:7-8 (NASB)

{9} Do not complain, brethren, against one another, so that you yourselves may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing right at the door. James 5:9 (NASB)

(WHY WOULD JAMES TELL THEM TO BE PATIENT OR NOT TO COMPLAIN IF HE DIDN'T EXPECT THE LORD TO RETURN SOON???)

{7} The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

{1} The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, Revelation 1:1 (NASB)

{3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. Revelation 1:3 (NASB)

{6} And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB)

{7} "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:7 (NASB)

{10} And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB)

(WHY WOULD THE RISEN AND ASCENDED LORD TELL JOHN TO KEEP THE WORDS OF THE PROPHECY OPEN IF HIS RETURN WEREN'T IMMINENT???)

{12} "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. Revelation 22:12 (NASB)

(Reads a lot like Matthew 16:27, huh???)

{20} He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB)

I agree: it's simple. So why don't you believe it?

We are still in the last days. Nothing you have posted shows otherwise.

The fact is, God's kingdom began to enter this world arguably with the birth of Christ but was made more apparent with the beginning of his ministry. Christ's kingship began at his death and resurrection, the firstfruits of the the renewal and redeeming of all creation. Christ has yet to return to put a final end to things and set things right, but that in no way means his is not King right now.

 

[Stormcrow]

You look from a perspective that God told his disciples that He would come soon and you try to fit in within that time frame.

Because He did!

{27} "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

I always assume Scripture is the truth and I will align myself to fit Scripture.

Then why don't you believe it?

Christ is not a Spirit but flesh and bones is a simple truth.

Simple is not always true. He is both, as has been illustrated.

Why don't you believe it?

Christ will come back to this world the same way he Went to heaven is a simple truth.

He did in that generation, just as He said He would.

Why don't you believe it?

Christ will not drink the fruit of vine until the kingdom of God comes is a simple truth.

You assume He didn't. I believe He did. Why don't you?

And we will be with Him together forever when He comes is a simple truth.

No. We will be with Him when He receives us, as Lehigh pointed out to you.

Why don't you believe it?

Why don't you understand this simple truth?

I came from where you are now. I can't accept such false doctrine and teaching anymore. It is inconsistent with the clear and simple teachings of Christ.

Why don't you understand Him?

 

[Stormcrow]

We are still in the last days. Nothing you have posted shows otherwise.

{27} "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. {28} "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Matthew 16:27-28 (NASB)

{64} Jesus *said to him [Caiaphas], "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN." Matthew 26:64 (NASB)

{34} "Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, {35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. {36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:34-36 (NASB)


{34} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

{42} "Therefore be on the alert, for you do not know which day your Lord is coming. Matthew 24:42 (NASB)

So if we are still in the last days, nothing Christ said in the above is true.

Think about it.

 

[felix]

Simple is not always true. He is both, as has been illustrated.

Why don't you believe it?

(Luke 24:39) Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.

I have showed Christ is NOT a Spirit, now show me where in Scripture it says Christ is a Spirit.

You assume He didn't. I believe He did. Why don't you?

I will NOT believe anything that's not in Scripture.

I came from where you are now. I can't accept such false doctrine and teaching anymore. It is inconsistent with the clear and simple teachings of Christ.

• You teach Christ is a Spirit yet Christ Himself said He is NOT a Spirit in Luke 24:39.
• You teach Christ had already come yet Christ Himself said He will take us to the place He is preparing for us as in John 14:3.

Sorry, I don't know that spirit which came and called itself as christ. But the Christ whom I believe is NOT any spirit but will come in clouds as flesh and bones, will sit on the throne of David and rule the world with a rod of iron.

 

[Stormcrow]

You teach Christ is a Spirit yet Christ Himself said He is NOT a Spirit in Luke 24:39.

No, here is what I wrote:

Christ has a glorified, resurrection body that appears (in the Bible) to possess both physical (corporeal) and spiritual (ethereal) qualities.

He could eat and the disciples could touch Him. But He could also appear and disappear at will. If He is one with the Father in nature, essence, and purpose, He is also spirit, just as God is spirit.

To suggest, therefore, that He is only flesh and blood is to deny His deity. To suggest, on the other hand, that He is only spirit is to deny His humanity.

He is both and - by virtue of His unique nature - is certainly at home wherever He chooses to dwell.

Clearly, I didn't write what you alleged I "teach."

now show me where in Scripture it says Christ is a Spirit.

I already did that, too:

What was He before He became flesh???

{1} In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 (NASB)

{24} God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24 (KJV)

What part of "He is both" bothers you so much?

He is as much God as He is man and vice versa. He is not simply one or the other. 2

I will NOT believe anything that's not in Scripture.

Everything I've shown you about His second coming is not only in scripture, it came from Christ Himself and yet you don't believe it. The fact that you don't belies your declaration noted above.

You teach Christ had already come yet Christ Himself said He will take us to the place He is preparing for us as in John 14:3.

Was He talking to "us" or His disciples in John 14:3?

{33} "Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, 'Where I am going, you cannot come.' John 13:33 (NASB)

{36} Simon Peter *said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later." John 13:36 (NASB)

John 14:3 is set in the context of Christ comforting His disciples over the fact that He would be leaving them soon: that He would be crucified.

Everything He said to them in those passages was directed specifically to them, not us living 2,000 years later.

Further, His message in John 14 directed to His disciples is completely consistent with this verse in Matthew, also directed to His disciples:

{44} "For this reason you also must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will. Matthew 24:44 (NASB)

Why would He tell them that they needed to be ready for His coming if it weren't going to happen in their lifetime?

 

[Stormcrow]

One more thing I think needs addressing.

On the one hand you write:

Christ Himself said He will take us to the place He is preparing for us as in John 14:3.

But on the other you write:

Christ...will come in clouds as flesh and bones, will sit on the throne of David and rule the world with a rod of iron.

Which is it?

 

[Stormcrow]

And yes, I believe Christ has a place prepared for every one who believes in Him. Those who believe in Christ transition immediately from this life to the next and we go to be with Him.

However, Christ telling His disciples He would come for them meant something entirely different, and was meant in the broader context of His second coming in that generation, as He told both the disciples (Matthew 16:27-28) and the Sanhedrin (Matthew 26:64.)

 

[felix]

Christ has a glorified, resurrection body that appears (in the Bible) to possess both physical (corporeal) and spiritual (ethereal) qualities.

He could eat and the disciples could touch Him. But He could also appear and disappear at will. If He is one with the Father in nature, essence, and purpose, He is also spirit, just as God is spirit.

To suggest, therefore, that He is only flesh and blood is to deny His deity. To suggest, on the other hand, that He is only spirit is to deny His humanity.

He is both and - by virtue of His unique nature - is certainly at home wherever He chooses to dwell.

What was He before He became flesh???

{1} In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 (NASB)

{24} God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4:24 (KJV)

God is a Spirit (John 4:24) represents the Holy Spirit or the Spirit of the Father. Word is God, God is Spirit and Father is God does not mean, Word is Spirit or Word is Father or Spirit is Father. If you consider Jesus Christ is Holy Spirit or it's Father that was crucified on cross, then it's called Sabellianism - which is termed as heresy by early church fathers, and not Trinity.

Since, Jesus Christ is not a spirit, none of the other claims are valid. Disappearing is not necessarily a nature or quality of a spirit. If you want to prove that point, make sure to do so using Scriptures, not what you believe.

Regarding the other post, John 14:3 represents the new heaven and new earth which God will create, for Him to dwell with man forever. Old Jerusalem is the city of David which David captured as in 2Sam 5:6-10. Jerusalem will be called the Throne of God as in Jer 3:17. Throne of David prophesied in Isa 9:7 and confirmed in Luke 1:32 represents the rule over New Jerusalem as in Rev 22:3.