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Lilac said:
The first one is easier to grasp, control and disperse of if needed or necessary.
The second contains unknown elements and prospects possibly far more consequences - therefore, is more likely not to be chosen?

Isn't this true on so many occasions?
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Agreed, though it is a broad statement so exactly what I am agreeing too is a generalization.
Augustine said, "we always choose what we desire most at the time". (also true, but a generalization)

So, the next step is to determine what things/persons cause us to choose "A" or not "A". Usually, on this forum "A" = 'belief leading to salvation'. Thus the "NO ONE SEEKS GOD" thread where people who think they choose to believe leading to salvation independent of God argue they can SEEK GOD without God's intervention or people who believe God causes them to believe argue that "NO ONE SEEKS GOD" unless God causes them to do so.

Good luck on your journey.
 
Jacob62 said:
Tell me how one becomes In Christ.
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You first. If you believe we are saved via 'free will' then:
  • Free of what? What thing(s) if anything determine whether you will believe salvifically or not? If any external thing causes you to believe, how can it be called “free will”?
Or you can use the Default definition:
Libertarian Free Will - Libertarian Free Will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. It determines its own volitions; so as not to be dependent, in its determinations, on any cause without itself, nor determined by anything prior to its own acts. Indifference and therefore amorality belongs to Liberty in their notion of it, or that the mind, previous to the act of volition, be in equilibrio (equilibrium in uncertainty).
 
daninthelionsden said:
Yes, once Godly knowledge is revealed to us, we are obligated to respond to our Lord. He can even lead us through the tangled web of false knowledge laid in our path by workers of iniquity. Still we must respond when Truth is revealed. The innocence of ignorance being no longer an acceptable excuse.
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Agreed as there will be no excuse when it comes to God's judgement, especially now that the Gospel is being preached throughout the nations.
 
Jacob62 said:
There is no vast universe. There are no immense galaxies, no immeasurable distanced.

The pancake Earth is covered by a Firmament 73 miles up. Everything today lie
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Can you please explain this?
In Job 9:5-10 He removes the mountains, and they do not know When He overturns them in His anger;
He shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble;
He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars;
He alone spreads out the heavens, And treads on the waves of the sea;
He made the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, And the chambers of the south;
He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number.

Amos 5:8 (He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning And makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth; The LORD is His name.

Job 26:7-11 (NLT2) God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing.
He wraps the rain in his thick clouds, and the clouds don’t burst with the weight.
He covers the face of the moon, shrouding it with his clouds.
He created the horizon when he separated the waters; he set the boundary between day and night.
The foundations of heaven tremble; they shudder at his rebuke.


 
Fastfredy0 said:
First Warning: Do NOT conflate verses in the Bible about man's love and God's love. God's love is NOT the same as man's love. God's love and man's love are analogous, but not univocal (meaning the same for him as it does for us) .
.....Since God is impassable -- his mind cannot be emotionally disturbed -- this means that divine love is not moody and not the effect of any cause; rather, God’s love is not an changing emotion, but an impartial, uninfluenced volition to favor. His love is not moody for He is immutable; His love is impartial as all of each individuals traits originate with God. God's love is holy, man's is not; God's love is uninfluenced, man's is not; God's love is never capricious, man's is not; God's love is eternal, man's is not; God’s love is selfless, man’s is not, God’s love is free to choose, man’s is not ... so measure verses referring to man's love carefully in regard to applying them to God's love.

Second Warning: Beware of posts that do not define what God's love actually means. Specifically, agape love.
Definition #1: “Agape” is one of several Greek words for love. When the word “agape” is used in the Bible, it refers to a pure, willful, sacrificial love that intentionally desires another’s highest good."
Another source's definition: Agape - the Greek word agape means goodwill, benevolence, and willful delight in the object of love. Agape love involves faithfulness, commitment, and an act of the will. It is distinguished from the other types of love by its lofty moral nature and strong character.
So when someone says, God loves this or that person ... makes sure it passes the "smell test". God favors and takes delight in those He loves. If that person is not loved he is not favored and not delightful to God which is simple to test for that person is or will be in hell for eternity. If a person is loved, favored and delightful to God he is or will be in heaven for eternity. Break this rule and one is not talking about God's love; rather, a distorted view of what that person thinks God's love should be.
.... God does not love (favor) those He hates (disfavors); God does not hate (disfavor) those He loves (favors). Either of these statement would be contradictory if untrue and God is rational and non contradictory. (Jacob I loved, and Esau I hated).

God does not love those who will be separated from Him in hell.
  • When God loves a man, it is impossible for that man to be separated from Him (Romans 8:38 - 39). Those that love God, God loved first. 1 John 4:19 We love, because He first loved us.
  • Many will be separated from God in the last day by the words, “Depart from me” (Matthew 7:23).
  • Since the wicked in hell will be separated from God, it is sure that He never loved them at all.
  • It is idiocy to say God loves those in hell just as much and in the same way as those in heaven. If you say He stopped loving them at some point, this would contradict His immutability.
God is angry at the wicked every day, unbelievers cannot please God.
  • The Bible declares rather plainly that God is angry at the wicked every day (Psalm 7:11).
  • He burned in His wrath toward men, when He drowned the entire planet in a Flood of water.
  • And He will be angry again toward men, when He burns up the planet with fire in the last day.
  • God’s anger toward His elect brings kind chastening; His anger toward the wicked brings hell.
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This reminds me of Genesis 6:5-8 as God favor (love) was only found in one man named Noah.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
 
TheWordIsOne said:
I can not feed into an offense, for an offense open a door to Satan
I only can give you these words
View attachment 10873
1 Cor 11:27-34 If, then, anyone takes the bread or the cup of the Lord in the wrong spirit, he will be responsible for the body and blood of the Lord.
But let no man take of the bread and the cup without testing himself.
For a man puts himself in danger, if he takes part in the holy meal without being conscious that it is the Lord's body. For this cause, a number of you are feeble and ill, and a number are dead.
But if we were true judges of ourselves, the punishment would not come on us.
But if punishment does come, it is sent by the Lord, so that we may be safe when the world is judged.
So then, my brothers, when you come together to the holy meal of the Lord, let there be waiting for one another.
If any man is in need of food, let him take his meal in his house; so that you may not come together to your damage. And the rest I will put in order when I come.
(This means to Examine oneself in this forum is all about breaking bread and love when one is against one other)

Like in Psalm 51:4 (KJV) Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest and be clear when thou judgest.
I'm saying but this is the word of God

I only know loveView attachment 10874
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Is a spirit kind of like a "feeling?"
 
TheWordIsOne said:
Can you please explain this?
In Job 9:5-10 He removes the mountains, and they do not know When He overturns them in His anger;
He shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble;
He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars;
He alone spreads out the heavens, And treads on the waves of the sea;
He made the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, And the chambers of the south;
He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number.

Amos 5:8 (He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning And makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth; The LORD is His name.

Job 26:7-11 (NLT2) God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing.
He wraps the rain in his thick clouds, and the clouds don’t burst with the weight.
He covers the face of the moon, shrouding it with his clouds.
He created the horizon when he separated the waters; he set the boundary between day and night.
The foundations of heaven tremble; they shudder at his rebuke.
Click to expand...
A globe Earth does not have pillars. Lol.
 
TheWordIsOne said:
Can you please explain this?
In Job 9:5-10 He removes the mountains, and they do not know When He overturns them in His anger;
He shakes the earth out of its place, And its pillars tremble;
He commands the sun, and it does not rise; He seals off the stars;
He alone spreads out the heavens, And treads on the waves of the sea;
He made the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades, And the chambers of the south;
He does great things past finding out, Yes, wonders without number.

Amos 5:8 (He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning And makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth; The LORD is His name.

Job 26:7-11 (NLT2) God stretches the northern sky over empty space and hangs the earth on nothing.
He wraps the rain in his thick clouds, and the clouds don’t burst with the weight.
He covers the face of the moon, shrouding it with his clouds.
He created the horizon when he separated the waters; he set the boundary between day and night.
The foundations of heaven tremble; they shudder at his rebuke.
Click to expand...
So, there is no Firmament?
 
for_his_glory said:
This reminds me of Genesis 6:5-8 as God favor (love) was only found in one man named Noah
Click to expand...

Yeah ... and whomever married one of his sons made a good choice assuming earthly longevity is at the top of one's "must have" list. :lol

Tried to google population at Noah's time. Guesses were all over the map so to speak. One statement: "there could have been about 750 million people at the time of the Flood.” Let's be conservative and say the population was 100 million.

Imagine, only 1 in 100,000,000+ loved by God. Aside: "We love God because He loved us first"
.... So now the world population is 7 billion. If God loved as many people today as He loved at Noah's time there would be 70 Christian's alive on the planet. If God's decides who He loves then the "why so low" is known to God, if we decide .... hmmm

Aside: low number is even below Jehovah's Witness number of 144,000 ... interesting
 
TheWordIsOne said:
Lack of Knowledge
View attachment 10856​

We begin in Matthew 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.

What is Offense? Itself is not deadly – if it stays in the tray. But if we pick it up and consume it and feed on it in our hearts, then we have become an offense. Offense people produce much fruit, such as anger, outrage, jealousy, resentment, strife, bitterness, hatred, and envy. Some of the consequences of picking up an offense are insults, attacks, wounding, divisions, separation, wounding division, and broken relationships betrayal, and backsliding. Often those who offended do not even realize they are trapped.

Ashes of the mind
View attachment 10857​
They are oblivious to their condition because they are so focused on the wrong that was done to them. They are in denial.
The most effective way for the enemy to blind us is to cause us to focus on ourselves.

Luke 17:1"It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!

Matt 18:6-7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!

Matt 18:5-6 "But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

Luke 17:1 It is impossible but that offense will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!

Psalms 55:12-14 For it was not an enemy that reproached me; then I could have borne it: neither was it he that hated me that did magnify himself against me; then I would have hidden from him:
But it was thou, a man mine equal, my guide, and mine acquaintance.
We took sweet counsel together and walked unto the house of God in the company.

2 Tim 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Bible Study
View attachment 10859​
The Greek word for “offend” in Luke 17: 1 comes from the word skandalon. This word originally referred to the part of the trap to which the bait was attached. If It stays in the tray Hence the word signifies laying a trap in someone’s way. The New Testament often describes an entrapment used by the enemy.
The offense is a tool of the devil to bring people into captivity. Paul instructed young Timothy:

Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
There are so several weapons Satan uses, to trap the mind

2 Corinthians 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
See Genesis 3: 13

1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.
Lucifer wise and prudent as wise as a serpent, wise as any beasts deceived Eve, But also deceived man as well.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary, the devil, roams as a roaring lion, walk around and about, seeking whom he may devour:

Note: Lucifer is called Satan, the word Satan just means an “adversary of man.” Lucifer can be a skillful hunter as in,
1 Peter 5:8; just not a roaring lion, but a skillful hunter, as one as preying hunter on the mind of the weak, doesn’t need to be a roaring lion.
Revelation 2:24 the depths of Satan

2 Corinthians 11:14 for Lucifer, Satan your adversary, can transform himself as a man, or into an angel of light.

Lucifer is wise and prudent
To give Him an Open Door
For Sin lies at the door
Lest Satan should take advantage of us; for we are not ignorant of his devices.
(2 Corinthians 2:11)

A trap, if it stays in the tray of his devices. Much hindered from coming to you Time and time again--but Satan hindered us. A messenger of Satan to buffet my burning of the mind, the fiery darts again I say a messenger, an angel of light or thorn in the flesh, are offense people

the mind can be vexed
View attachment 10863
See 2 Cor 2:11; 1 Thess 2:18; Rom 15:22; 2 Cor 11:14.
Click to expand...
Who is this "We" you try to represent? Kramer?
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Yeah ... and whomever married one of his sons made a good choice assuming earthly longevity is at the top of one's "must have" list. :lol

Tried to google population at Noah's time. Guesses were all over the map so to speak. One statement: "there could have been about 750 million people at the time of the Flood.” Let's be conservative and say the population was 100 million.

Imagine, only 1 in 100,000,000+ loved by God. Aside: "We love God because He loved us first"
.... So now the world population is 7 billion. If God loved as many people today as He loved at Noah's time there would be 70 Christian's alive on the planet. If God's decides who He loves then the "why so low" is known to God, if we decide .... hmmm

Aside: low number is even below Jehovah's Witness number of 144,000 ... interesting
Click to expand...
God can only find favor in those who are His own as only He can judge the heart and it's intents.
 
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