1 Peter 1:25
But
the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And
this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
In these various observations seemingly endless tensions, disputes and divisions arise.
In the opening post, the poster postures that believers are saved regardless of works, and that if others posture that good works are required to be saved, and if not, then no salvation, then the commands for good works has defeated salvation if these cards are not in hand. But he argues that salvation itself, once procured or received, is secure. Others posture the opposing side, that no, no one is saved unless they meet various forms of ever continuing criteria.
They are only "saved in the now" IF they have all the salvation cards in their own hands. This most often includes "works" to prove all these salvation cards are still in the hands of the receiver.
The reality for every believer factually resides between these two postures.
What all parties to these various debates always overlook is that NO MAN has only good works.
Proof texts?
Romans 3:23
For
all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
That covers past tense. Sinned means have already done it. Sinned in the past.
How about the present tense?
1 John 1:
8 If we say that
we have no
sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Have sin is a present tense application. Paul shows us this same thing in Romans 7:17-21, proving that sin dwelt in his own flesh and that evil was therefore present with him. This is also Paul's basis of understanding that the flesh is against and contrary to the Spirit, from Gal. 5:17.
Paul concludes from this that God in Christ came to save sinners, 1 Tim. 1:15, even concluding that "I am" the chief of same, after salvation no less.
So let's examine the frailties of both sides of the postures. The opening poster requests that Gods Eternal Adverse Judgements against all sin and evil, which ARE a promise of the Gospel be abandoned entirely. The other side of the debate can't accept that. I wouldn't accept that either. We know for no uncertain fact that the Spirit is contrary to and against the flesh from Gal. 5:17. We also know for no uncertain fact that God in Christ is not the proponent of sin or of evil.
So the "potentially lose your salvation crowd" has devised various schemes in which God in Christ looks like this:
View attachment 9325
If a believers good works are sufficient to over balance the scales more than their evil works, then they're in. And in the goods works side they place in a varied concoction of what qualifies and what doesn't which is entirely arbitrary and shifting according to their own particular and individual demands.
The other side has an entirely different posture that looks more like this:
It should be rather obvious to anyone honestly assessing this constant debate that no amounts of "good works" is going to make anyone sinless. There are many scriptural barriers to the good works are required for salvation side of the debate that this crowd can't legitimately address. Here for example:
2 Corinthians 5:
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself,
not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
That only leaves the questions of Eternal Adverse Judgments of God as it pertains to believers, hanging. And the first poster doesn't address this in his posture. Fortunately scripture does address this. IN 2 Cor. 12:7 Paul provides us an intimately look at his own construction in the flesh:
2 Corinthians 12:
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn
in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Jesus gives us the identical picture here:
Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side,
where the word is sown; but when they have heard,
Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown
in their hearts.
John gives us this same identical picture here:
1 John 3:
8 He that committeth
sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
That's why the answers to these kinds of questions reside somewhere between the two sides. God in Christ WILL have His Salvation of believers, not counting sins against them. And God in Christ WILL also exact Eternal Adverse Judgments on our ADVERSARY, the devil, who is also involved in this mess of sin and evil.
The basic lesson in these matters are these:
->Don't be a pawn of our adversary in the flesh.
->Don't think that any amount of "good works" is going to offset the fact that Eternal Adverse Judgments do apply to that adversary.
If the above factual sights are inserted into this debate, we will discover that our adversary is also a part of the narratives of The Word.
And neither side has any account of that matter whatsoever.
