Grailhunter's Classroom

[Grailhunter]

LAND OF THE GIANTS

Over the centuries there has been a lot of interest in the event concerning the sons of God mating with the daughters of men and the offspring they produced. If you are interested in reviewing some of the theories on this event Wikipedia has some information on this….I say some but not all.
Sons of God - Wikipedia

Again we do not have all the information required to answer all the questions that these verses bring up. The problem is that the story itself is short, vague, and it is a stand alone event.

What we know and what we do not know….. Because a good part of understanding this event hinges on information about the giants…I am going to cover that first.

There are 3 races of Giants in the Bible? “Races” We really do not know if the names Nephilim, Anakim, and the Rephaim define races or patriarchal lineages of giants. And how similar they were. In the Bible they are referred to as Nephilim, Anakim, and the Rephaim. I have heard this topic discussed so many times in college and church and Sunday school it is definitely a focus of curiosity. What we have on this topic is what we know, what we do not know, what we suspect, and when you engage the imagination it is a can of worms and the sky is the limit.

But we know they existed. For one, other cultures speak of them. Scholars do not think these names are Hebrew and most probably came from Pagan cultures. As far as the Bible….they are mentioned several times specifically or indirectly or by territory….
Genesis 6:1-22
Genesis 6:4
Genesis 14:5-15:20
Numbers 13:33
Numbers 13:30-33
Deuteronomy 1:28
Deuteronomy 2:10-21
Deuteronomy 3:11-13
Deuteronomy 9:2
Joshua 11:21-22
Joshua 12:4
Joshua 13:12
Joshua 14:12-15
Joshua 15:8
Joshua 17:15
Joshua 18:16
2nd Samuel 5:18-22
2nd Samuel 21:15-22
2nd Samuel 21:18-22
2nd Samuel 23:13
1st Chronicles 14:9
1st Chronicles 20:4-8
Isaiah 17:5

1st Samuel 17 David and Goliath
If Goliath was the son of Rapha-he is likely to be descended from the Rephaim, but being brought up in Gath, an ancient stronghold of the Anakim, could suggest he may also have had some Anakim relatives.

The Battle of the Giants is told in Greek mythology.
The Book of Giants is an apocryphal book which expands upon the Genesis narrative of the Hebrew Bible.
The Book of Enoch mentions giants.
Then you have the documentaries of skeletal remains being found.

Where did the giants come from? I would say that most think they came from the coupling of the sons of God and the daughters of men. This is very unlikely.

But what does the Bible say and or not say about the giants and the event of the sons of God taking women as wives.

1. The Bible never indicates that the sons of God were angels. People list scriptures about bad angels or the fall of angels but the Bible never ties the two together or says that the sons of God were angels or ties the fall of the angels or the flood to this event. If you look at all of the accounts in the Bible that involve angels, they are never defined as the sons of God. If they were defined as the sons of God we would not be having this conversation.

2. We do not know the linage of the daughters of men. Some try to trace it back to Seth but there is no consistent linage in the scriptures from Seth to the daughters that married the sons of God.

3. We do not know if the daughters of men were good or bad.

4. We do not know how many couplings there were....3 or 300 hundred.

5. We do not know for how long the sons of God were marrying women. Did they stay on earth? Where they families? Taking them as wives….Marriage….not a description of a hit and run event.

6. We do not know for sure if God objected to the coupling of the sons of God with the daughters of men. God did not speak against it nor indication that the sons of God were reprimanded.

7. Can Angels or other divine beings procreate? Were these a different type of divine beings? Could it be a bad thing for divine beings to impregnate women? So when Yahweh came down and impregnated Miriam, and did not marry her, and she was betrothed to another person…..was that a bad thing? According to the Mosaic Law that is adultery. Are there exceptions to these rules? Is it permitted for divine beings to have sex with women, to marry women, to sire children with women? Obviously. Interestingly enough, this is a common occurrence in Greco-Roman mythology.

The bottom line is that there is no evidence in the Bible that God objected to this event. To the contrary, odds are that the story of Job occurs after this event and the sons of God are still presenting themselves before God in Heaven, so they were still in good standing with God and survived the flood.

8. Who or whatever these beings were the Bible indicates they were special in that they sired superior men….mighty men of renown. And only men? Deborah?

9. The phrase sons of God or the phrase son of God does not indicate anything negative in the Bible. The phrases denote good and important figures in the scriptures.

10. The Bible does not indicate that the offspring of these couplings were giants....mighty men....not mighty giants.

11. Mighty men and of renown….we do not know what they did to deserve this distinction. There is no lineage for the daughters of men or the descendants of the mighty men. This is odd, the Bible normally records lineage of normal descendants why not the offspring of the sons of God? How was it known that the sons of the sons of God were mighty men and renown if the flood happened shortly after this? So the sky has been the limit on speculation. Did the mighty men of the sons of God survive the flood?….Yes they did, they appear in Job. And apparently the giants survived the flood also. What about the sons of God, did they continue on with marrying women and siring children? Were people like Moses, Yoshua, Yacob, David, Solomon, etc, descendants of the mighty men, there is nothing to prove this. And this is one of the questions, were they called men renown because they were the mighty men that killed giants …..Like David.

12. There is no written connection between this event and the flood. The scriptures indicate that Yahweh caused the flood due the wickedness that abound on earth. Since this event with the sons of God was not described as wrong or wicked, there is no reason to assume that it was “the” cause of the flood. The wickedness that Yahweh was referring to was the whole world. But since the flood is mentioned in close proximity, it causes questions among the other questions. LOL Either way the flood did not kill the giants because they continue to be part of narrative of the Old Testament.

13. If the giants survived the flood could the sons of God and their wives and children have survived the flood?

14. "and they took wives for themselves," Wives not just sex acts. Is this an indication of morality? A marriage, did they stay with the women? Did they raise their sons?

15. The interest in this story started with the Israelites. So now for thousands of years people have been speculating on this, debating on this, with no resolution. Why? Not enough information to come to a definitive conclusion. Ergo all the efforts to speculate. Christians have been pondering the meaning of this story for centuries with no resolution.
continued......

 

[Grailhunter]

Reviewing the event…..
Genesis 6:1-8
6 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6. The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 The Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord

1. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward …. This would suggest that when the sons of God coupled with the daughters of men the giants existed at that time and before this event and after.

2 when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. This does not indicate that the women bore giants and in fact since the next verse says… Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. Again “men” this suggests their children were not giants but grew up to be famous mighty men. Men of renown? Who were the men of renown of the Old Testament?

The overall outline of this story suggests that there was a lot going on at this time and this is a disconnected set of statements that allude to a larger story. And generates more questions than answers. One verse says… My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, because he also is flesh; nevertheless his days shall be one hundred and twenty years ….Then another verse says… I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, from man to animals to creeping things and to birds of the sky; for I am sorry that I have made them…..So why would He say He was going to shorten their lifespan if He intended to kill everyone? It would seem that would negate any need to change their lifespan and in fact men continued to live long lives after the flood.

So the bottom line is….as far as definitive answers and or conclusions I do not think there is enough information for that. As far as speculation…. “Mighty men of renown is not a negative description. I believe that maybe, the lineage of these couplings or families were the mighty men that God would call upon later on in the Old Testament to be His champions and maybe giant killers ….possibly some or all, Abraham, Moses, Joshua, David, and Solomon. Again this is just speculation. But there is no indication that the sons of God were angels or their offspring were giants or that God condemned the sons of God for what they did. So we know more about what it is not, than what it is.

The flood connection? The flood was because of the wickedness of whole world, but maybe one of the reasons for the flood was to kill the giants but it obviously did not work. Both the sons of God and the giants survived the flood.

 

[hawkman]

A seed war . Think about it .

 

[Grailhunter]

I included this here from the thread “Is it a sin to vote for a democrat” because it is relevant to Christian theology.

When is a baby a baby?
Pregnant bellies are for kissing not killing.
In the demon-rat political – social environment of the democrats you do not want to ask them to define a woman or when a baby is a baby or what they think of the murderous BLM riots and siege(s). The answer you get will be somewhere between retarded and demonic. If they answer.

I was watching a talk show that had a female democrat on (more like listening because my back was turned to it most of the time.) They actually asked her to define a woman and when a baby was a baby. My ears perked up and I looked over at the TV, what I saw on her face was an expression like a deer in the headlights and then anger, she was very angry that she was asked those questions.

It is not a new thing I have seen it during congressional hearings on C-SPAN and the news….Until the umbilical cord is cut there are democrats that think the baby is not human and a female is indefinable because the answer would offend their voters that are LGBTQ and or want to allow transsexuals to play in sports or go into restrooms to prey on their victims. Which is why Obama sent letters to schools to make their bathrooms uni-sex so that transexuals can be with your children. And of course democrats support murdering babies because they do not want to offend their voters that are into that sort of thing.

Then you have Partial-birth abortions
Partial-birth abortions (PBA) is the term Congress has used to describe a procedure that crosses the line from abortion to infanticide. The doctor delivers a substantial portion of the living child outside his mother's body --- the entire head in a head-first delivery and the baby is killed by crushing his or her skull or removing the brain by suction. A law was passed by republicans to stop partial birth abortions in 1993 but President Clinton vetoed the law. But this process was outlawed by President Bush and the republicans in 2003. The vote count can be seen at this website…

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1081/vote_108_1_00402.htm

Do babies scream during the abortion process....



The Silent Scream - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Baby Screamed During Live-Birth Abortion, We Can’t Forget This Baby’s Cries | American Values

www.ouramericanvalues.org


So then when is a baby a baby? If the scenario is honorable it would not matter. If this is a concern regarding your own situation, mother or father, you are probably asking this because you did something wrong. If you had it in your mind while you were having sex….We will just murder the baby if she gets pregnant. That is a red flag because that says something about your character.

If you are thinking that it is right to make a baby pay for your mistakes ….that is wrong thinking. I don’t put bumper stickers on my truck but if I did it would be THINK BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE

A lot of people live their life like mindless pin balls, bumping into things and not taking responsibly for their actions, or even blaming the world. Just at the intellectual level, you might want to think about what you are doing. If you do not want a baby, do not have sex. Hopefully most know that reproduction is the biological purpose of sexual intercourse. So a lot is at stake when people couple up. But if you are sexually out of control you are going to be inherently irresponsible. People get help from physiatrists for the smallest of things….this one is a biggie ….seek help if you cannot control your actions.

A lot of the focus on abortion rights is the insinuation that a lot of people fall in this category. “Out of control when it comes to random sexual activities.” So like sneezing, it is not their fault so it is a given that they should have the right for an abortion hanky. And that is where the discussion starts, on that assumption. Having sex is not their fault so murdering a baby is justified. That abortion is part of a woman’s right to have authority and control of their own bodies. But in a logical debate this is were this topic should be put to rest. Women do have authority and control of their own bodies…they have the right not to have sex. But murder is no one’s right.

Christianity is a religion of morals and responsibility. But we cannot control what heathens do. So we cannot stop heathens from making abortion in one form or another legal. But it is definitely wrong for a Christian to vote for politicians that will promote heathen mentalities and initiatives that are evil. What could be more wrong than a mother murdering her own baby?

What do heathens and animals have in common? An animal does not have a sense of right and wrong and in many ways heathens act like animals. Christians should not have this mentality. We are not animals hitting anything that sits still long enough. If you are a Christian you are responsible for your actions. If you intend to go out on Friday night looking for a piece….you sinned before you left your house.

For many reasons the coupling of Christians is an important and sacred event. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate. Mark 10:7-9…. “what God has joined together” a marriage formed by God thus is sacred.

Besides the possibility of procreation….Besides the emotional bonds that it creates between a man and woman. It also includes the fact that these couples form families that are a stabilizing anchor to society. What would the world be like without families?

Most people do not know enough about the Bible to know that there is no requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married, anywhere in the Bible. The sexual union formed marriages all through the biblical era and beyond. Wedding ceremonies did not become a requirement to be married until the 16th century. Even today in most places if you had a ceremony but did not have sex, you can get the marriage annulled. The sexual union has always consummated the marriage, as Genesis 2:24 and Mark 10:7-9 indicates. So for Christians, the fact and realization of this is, if you have sex with someone you are married and if you have sex with another person after that, it is adultery. For Christians it is God’s intention that we have one sexual partner in our lifetime unless we are widowed or our partner cheats on us. And even then it should not be a knee jerk reaction, reconciliation is better. It is the Christian way….forgiveness.

So if you conduct yourself correctly the question of when is it a baby?....does not matter….just kiss the belly and be happy. Not only Christian morals but common sense applies….considering the variety of STD’s and legal liabilities it makes sense that you should not have sex with someone you do not love. In other words, only make love with someone that you are in love with. In which case abortion is not in the mix.

But for those that have murder in their heart….When is a baby a baby? The answer.....
At conception. It is a human baby, not a tadpole. Then the next question is; When is it considered killing or murder to abort a pregnancy? There are different opinions on this. Some religions do not believe in contraceptives and some believe that aborting a baby after there is a heart beat is killing or murder. But there is actually something else to consider….When does a baby receive a soul? And how will that soul feel about his or her mother murdering them? Of course if you conduct your life like an animal you do not consider such things.

Oh it is not a baby, it is a fetus, it is not human….be sure to know that that is demon speak. If someone says that, it is Satan speaking through them. Killing or murder? I am ex-military and understand the killing of one to save another is sometimes a choice that has to be made….but in those very few cases that a woman’s health will not support a pregnancy, that determination should be made in a hospital by a doctor before the baby has a heart beat. There is no reason for anyone to get an abortion in an abortion clinic. Can you imagine the dance that Satan does at those places?

In romantic relationships….love….a wise man knows he is engaging in a relationship that could lead to his sexual partner being a mother and as such should respect her and himself and would be proud to be a father. The old timers call it thinking past your nose. Christianity is not a club that you sign up for and go on living an evil life and supporting evildoers. Sure you can call yourself a Christian but that is not going to save you. A vote for a democrat is a vote for the Devil and you will answer for it on Judgment day.

Definitions….
Pagan is a more modern term that means non-Christians and they worship other gods and may or may not have morals.

Heathen means non-Christian and my not worship any God or have any morals. Or they make up their own morals not based on the Bible. Atheists and Agnostics can fall into this category.

Love and worship God.
Be good and do good.
Give evil no tolerance, no mercy, and no quarter.
The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.