Bible Study Great Secrets And Revelation Of The Cross.

[Chopper]

What can you tell me about the two sinners who were crucified WITH Christ?

I can tell you they were each crucified with Christ upon their own cross. But something more important than that. There was a difference between the two theives, yet they were both crucified with Christ. Can you tell me the difference?

I'll tell you what I don't like about conversations with you, my friend. I don't like your questions to me. I don't like answering questions that you probably already know. What I want from you is for you to let me know what you know about any given topic that you would ask me. Ok? I'm to old (77) and to tired to play that game.

 

[Chopper]

I understand your intent of targeting the death aspect of Jesus, and as this tread has moved along, there is certainly more to understand about it.

But I too must remind you that you asked the Spirit of the Lord for new revelation; great secrets and revelations of the cross. If you are targeting only a certain aspect, then what are you listening for? If we ask the Lord for new revelation, should we then tell Him to limit it to only what we want to hear?

I understand your concern. In the effort to keep this thread on track, we will stay with the OP. It is so easy to get off topic. Once Soul man and I feel, before the Lord, that we have presented the Truth of what He desired our Forum Folk to digest and put into practice in their lives, Once completed, we will close the thread.

Now, Both soul man and I feel that we want the next thread that we do, to be a choice from the folk who have been faithful in supporting this thread. We will gather all the thread suggestions, pray over them and choose the one that the Holy Spirit would like to address. You are welcome to suggest one.

 

[ezrider]

I'll tell you what I don't like about conversations with you, my friend. I don't like your questions to me. I don't like answering questions that you probably already know. What I want from you is for you to let me know what you know about any given topic that you would ask me. Ok? I'm to old (77) and to tired to play that game.

Well this certainly makes it difficult in having a conversation with you then, doe it not? I mean if I can not ask you questions, then it really isn't much of a conversation, is it?. I am truly sorry that you see the questions I have asked as some sort of game. They are not. But my questions aren't just for you, they are for anyone who should happen to read the post. I would like to say I don't know what your looking for, but I do. You just want an answer. You know that I know answer I'm looking, and it frustrates you that I just won't give it to you.

But if I just give you the answer, then it is meaningless to you. But if I ask you questions, they are intended to lead you to the answer, and when you find it, it will be yours to keep. Your comment saddens me, because it is not a game. If I tell you the answer, then you will glory in my knowledge, and that is not what I want. I want you to discover it for yourself so that you would glory in the Lord instead. You may not like my questions, but that is just the way it is.

I understand you are 77 years old. Are you telling me you are to old to think. Abraham was 100 years old when bore a son. I also understand that you were a pastor for 40 years, and yet you appear to get upset that I asked you the difference between the two thieves crucified with Christ. This I do not understand. Shall I give you the answer now? For that I shall only say, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. One thief knew the truth.

 

[Hermit]

I agree, but to take this just a wee bit further, our soul is not our only organ of expression I don't think. Our spirit has voice. Scripture says so. When we pray in tongues, it is our spirit praying to God and so forth. Do you think, as scripture seems to say...that we should strive to (through the word) to get our spirit divided away from our soul, divided asunder...to the end of, I think our spirit would be in the preeminent position within ourselves instead of our soul? (Then, the old man is dead perhaps?)

Thank you Edward for your response. The above may be so, but I still see the ego and the soul differently.

This is how I see it. Our spirit encompasses the body and the soul. Our expression of Truth, which is unconditional love is seen be others as peaceful radiance. The greater the Love the greater the radiance. Jesus Love was so great He transfigured himself to pure radiance.

We, can be seen as body-mind-soul. Body-mind is ego-based, because the ego was created by the mind by average age of two years. In the first two years the mind was very busy trying to make sense of the world it was in, including the body. Around about two years of age, children start creating an identity for themselves (I, self, me). This came about by the mind, a by-product of brain activity. The brain is the only sub-organism of the body that does not have nerve ends of its own. So the mind cannot sense itself to determine what it is. So as a default, it refers to the brains memory bank of all the things the body has done and the mind has thought, and most importantly its self created belief system. As a result, the mind has created an identity for itself, known as the ego. However, the mind knows that it is not based on sensory input from outside of itself, and therefore its ego-identity is a fantasy, a fabricated story for the mind to make sense of itself. In other words, it is invalid. The mind fears losing its identity for it believes it will lose itself if it did. So any threat to its identity causes it to instantly seek was to regain its self-esteem (ego-energy). That is why the ego constantly tries to seek validation (look at me).

The soul-mind is what we believe to be true, regardless if it is True or not. Because the mind is the bridge between body and soul, what is believed about the world and the body (flesh), including the ego, effects the soul. What is soul believes about Truth also effects the soul, and the body. For our beliefs is expressed through our body.

So, within us, we have beliefs that contain both Truth and not-Truth. The Truth is always expressed as unconditional Love (explosion of life energy), and the non-Truths are expressed as fear (implosion of life energy).

The old man (so to speak) is fear-based on non-Truths such as the ego.
The new man (so to speak) is love-based on Truths such as God and Jesus Christ.

The revelation of the cross, for me, is that Jesus Christ showed us through such an extreme example that our Truth is beyond the flesh (body and ego). It was the only way to penetrate our denials. And that Faith alone in the Truth can cleanse the soul from what non-truth beliefs our mind has harbored. For us Christians, the question is, how much non-truths do we still harbor? It is these we need to put on our cross so the non-Truths can be discerned and put to death.

 

[Chopper]

Well this certainly makes it difficult in having a conversation with you then, doe it not? I mean if I can not ask you questions, then it really isn't much of a conversation, is it?. I am truly sorry that you see the questions I have asked as some sort of game. They are not. But my questions aren't just for you, they are for anyone who should happen to read the post. I would like to say I don't know what your looking for, but I do. You just want an answer. You know that I know answer I'm looking, and it frustrates you that I just won't give it to you.

But if I just give you the answer, then it is meaningless to you. But if I ask you questions, they are intended to lead you to the answer, and when you find it, it will be yours to keep. Your comment saddens me, because it is not a game. If I tell you the answer, then you will glory in my knowledge, and that is not what I want. I want you to discover it for yourself so that you would glory in the Lord instead. You may not like my questions, but that is just the way it is.

I understand you are 77 years old. Are you telling me you are to old to think. Abraham was 100 years old when bore a son. I also understand that you were a pastor for 40 years, and yet you appear to get upset that I asked you the difference between the two thieves crucified with Christ. This I do not understand. Shall I give you the answer now? For that I shall only say, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. One thief knew the truth.

I realize that you're upset. There is an attitude that come from you that I pick up on. I'm just being honest. This is what I'm writing about. This is your statement....

If I tell you the answer, then you will glory in my knowledge, and that is not what I want. I want you to discover it for yourself so that you would glory in the Lord instead.

"That is what YOU WANT?? YOU WANT me to discover??

The reason that I don't want to answer your questions is that because I'm well read & knowledgeable on most theological, spiritual, and doctrinal issues both in the Old Covenant and New Covenant. In order to answer your questions I'd have to write a book and send it to you or my answers would be to long for any Forum. To give a simple answer? Not my way anymore.

I welcome your comments. Instead of asking me a question, you make the statement, or answer, and we can discuss that. I'll let you know if I agree or not. Are you afraid you might be wrong? Remember, I'm a Psychologist and pick up on attitudes and fears.

We should, as Brothers in Christ, have a good relationship. Now you know how I operate, please respect that.

 

[ezrider]

I realize that you're upset. There is an attitude that come from you that I pick up on. I'm just being honest. This is what I'm writing about. This is your statement....

Maybe I am upset. But more than being upset, I think I am more disappointed than anything. But your right, I have an attitude, and I'm sure you can pick up on it. I thank you for your honesty, and now I hope you will be able to accept a little honesty back.

"That is what YOU WANT?? YOU WANT me to discover??

I told you the reason Chopper. So that you would not glory in my knowledge. I wanted you to glory in the Lord. Period. Maybe you are not mature enough yet to understand that.

The reason that I don't want to answer your questions is that because I'm well read & knowledgeable on most theological, spiritual, and doctrinal issues both in the Old Covenant and New Covenant. In order to answer your questions I'd have to write a book and send it to you or my answers would be to long for any Forum. To give a simple answer? Not my way anymore.

Honesty? All I see is your pride working here. The reason you don't want to answer is that you would have to write a book? Seriously? Would it have to contain foot notes of all the commentaries and devotionals? Well, Chopper, if that is what it takes for you to answer one of my questions, then in all honesty, you do not have to answer them because I am not interested in hearing the doctrines and traditions of men.

Now this question I asked had to do with the thief on the cross, who was crucified with Christ. Now this thief knew the Truth, but he only played such a brief and tiny role. But after 40 years as a pastor and teacher, you don't want to answered the question, or you can't?

You see Chopper, you and Soul man are leading a study on the Death of the Cross. I can see much value in that. BUT, neither you nor Soul man has yet to explain, or rather give an account of your own personal faith in how you reckon yourself dead with Christ. How do you understand your own walk of Faith by being crucified with Christ? I'm sorry you don't like these questions, but I'm not going to find the answers in some theologians book. I'm asking you to give account for your faith that lies within, and you won't.


But you want answers. And so I'll give you the answer. But an answer without the question or context, I'm sure will be meaningless.

We are GUILTY, but he is innocent.

I welcome your comments. Instead of asking me a question, you make the statement, or answer, and we can discuss that. I'll let you know if I agree or not. Are you afraid you might be wrong? Remember, I'm a Psychologist and pick up on attitudes and fears.

It is certainly good to know that my comments are still welcome, but if you are asking if I might be afraid because I am wrong, then you really don't know me as well as you think. If I was afraid I might be wrong, would I post a great secret of the cross and say that the Father Answered the Prayer of Jesus, and that He did not have to drink of the cup. Father, If this cup might pass.... And when he cried, He Heard. Does any of your books discuss this?

So now you have reminded me that you are a psychologist, and you pick up fears and attitudes. So you have a degree in the science and study of the influence of the flesh nature.

I know you don't like questions, but tell me if you can. If You are dead with Christ and are dead to your flesh; and If I am dead with Christ and am dead to my flesh: then why do you want to glory in my flesh?

We should, as Brothers in Christ, have a good relationship. Now you know how I operate, please respect that.

I agree. You also know how I operate. I give commentary in my posts. I quote scripture in my posts, I ask questions in my posts. Please respect that.

You are not obligated to answer my questions. In fact you don't have to read my comments at all. That is entirely up to you.

But I will remind you of something I told you a long time ago. My interest was not in bringing people to the cross and to their death. My interest was in listening for the voice that calls them back from the dead.

 

[ezrider]

The Death of Christ.

Romans 14:7-9
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

The cross gives us two ways to serve the Lord. Though we are crucified with Christ, and we are risen with him, there are still two paths that you can go down, the broad way that lead to destruction, or the narrow path that leads to life. For whether we live unto the Lord, or whether we die unto the Lord. We are the Lord's.

Chopper said Calvary always sends a man on to Pentecost, and Pentecost always send them back to Calvary. Now this is true for those who are dead in Christ, and for those who continue to die unto the Lord. They are dead with Christ. They have been Crucified with Christ, and they have risen with Christ. But they have not risen to the resurrection of life. They have risen to the resurrection of death, where they continue to serve sin by the death of Christ before the Cross, but they are not written in the Lamb's book of life.

But those who continue to die unto the lord are not the same as those who live unto the Lord. For they have been called forth to the resurrection of life. They may have returned to Calvary for a season while they were under the school master, but when Faith came, they moved on from Calvary, and went forth into the new city.

The Cross separates the sheep from the goats, and the wheat from the tares. One serves the Lord in Death, the other serves him in the newness of Life.

John 5:24-29
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:1-4
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

All the world is dead in Christ. All the world was crucified with Christ. Some are risen with Christ to everlasting life; Many are risen with him to everlasting shame and contempt. As Jesus called it, the resurrection of damnation. These have returned to Calvary to where they continue to serve death and sin under the law while using the cross for there sacrifice and a covering from sin. If you are dead indeed to sin, then you no longer need a covering from sin. But these who wait before Calvary are likened unto the foolish virgins, running to and fro looking for the word of God, And they shall not find it. And when that day comes, when the door is shut, they shall find themselves outside the city wall saying Lord, Lord, have we not done all these things in thy name? And he shall say depart from me, you workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.


So when we are talking about the Cross, and we are talking about being crucified with Christ, and we are talking about being risen with Christ, then how we see ourselves risen with Christ becomes evermore evident. The OP has stated that they are only interested in the death of the cross, so that they may die unto themselves, so that they might die unto the Lord. Those who remain before the cross will come to die in the Lord, even if it comes by the second death. But to live unto the Lord; that takes Faith.

If you are risen with Christ, then which resurrection is it that you pursue? The one unto Life Everlasting? Or the one to Death and everlasting shame?

 

[ezrider]

Galatians 2:17-21
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If I through the law do reckon myself dead unto the law, then how do I do that? For I have been crucified with Christ, being made dead to the law. How am I dead to the law? How does the Cross help me to reckon myself dead to the law? For you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I through the law am dead to the law because I stand GUILTY before the law. I am a hypocrite, I am prideful. I have worshiped idols, I have done all of these thing. Before the Law, I shall always know myself as guilty. But I am not under the law. I am dead to the Law, that I might serve in the newness of Life.

I do not need the cross any longer to save me from my sins, I am already dead to them. In my flesh, I will remain obedient to death, because I am guilty before the law. I do not try and hide my guilt beneath the covering of the cross. I am dead to the law. I do not need the blood of the cross to cover my sins when it is the blood of the covenant that I walk under. I am dead to the law, because I stand guilty before it. I am dead to the law, and I embrace it's curse, for by the law, and by the cross, Christ was made the curse for me.

 

[ezrider]

Take up thy cross and deny thyself. How do we do that? By denying myself food or drink? By denying myself a little pleasure in this world? No, that's not it. That's not the meaning of denying myself. The deceit of the serpent and the knowledge of good and evil is that you would become as gods, knowing good and evil. The temptation to sin is not that I must deny myself some fleshly desire, but rather that I must deny myself. I must deny my own righteousness under the law. I must deny that there is anything righteous about myself. I must deny that there is anything righteous about my works. I must deny the righteousness that comes by the law, so the I can learn of the Righteousness of God which is revealed only by Faith.

 

[ezrider]

When discussing the power of the Cross and everything it makes possible, this comment confounds me.

The bottom line for me is, I'm so very glad and relieved that the Father doesn't see me, He sees Jesus IN ME.

Why would anyone be so happy that the Father doesn't see them. Do you not exist to the Father? Why would you be relieved that He can not see you. The whole purpose of the Cross was to restore our relationship with the Father, so that we could come before his throne.

You pray to the Father in Jesus name, but then you are relieved that He doesn't see you. That make no sense. If He doesn't see you, then why should he answer your prayers? If you are so relieved that the Father can't see you, then why are you hiding from the Lord? Have you eaten from the tree of knowledge and taken unto yourself the cross as your covering for your sins so that you might hide from the face of the Father? Is that why the people return to Calvary after they first believed, to find their covering in His Death so that they might hide from the Father and His Wrath. Do they not yet understand the Grace and Mercy of the Lord that they continue to seek a covering to Hide themselves from the presence of the Lord.

1 John 2:22-25
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


How can anyone who would acknowledge the Son say the are relived that the Father can not see them; when he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also. What is this power of the death of the cross that you teach?

 

[Soul man]

The cup Jesus drank from had in it the sin of the world, John 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He became sin (if you can picture Adam hanging on that cross, you and I ), that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. He took in His body every sin ever committed, suffered the curse of that sin (nature). He took in His body the sin of the world, the original sin, the sin-nature.
Nailing it to the tree, killing the "sin of the world" (nature) along with its death,
Gal. 3:13,
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The cup Jesus drank from had Adam and all His lineage. Ultimately it had the will of the Father in it.
Jesus did the will of His Father, redeeming humanity.
The finished work of the cross, was in the cup Jesus drank from.
He was Gods sacrificial lamb, He willingly came to die, to drink from the cup (the Fathers will) His Father gave Him to drink from.
Humanity for the first time since the fall in the garden, could be free from sin and its death-life (nature).
A friend of mine wrote a book about the cross, he did a great job going in depth of, the Atonement and Passover, two scapegoats, soul salvation, the oldman, the federal head and much much more.
I would do him a disservice trying to go into detail, it was an education of revelation that brought insite to one of the most understood subjects possibly in all scripture.
Our Father has gone to great lengths to fulfill His plan and purpose "before the foundation of the world."
Eph. 1:3-4,
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

 

[Soul man]

We, can be seen as body-mind-soul. Body-mind is ego-based, because the ego was created by the mind by average age of two years. In the first two years the mind was very busy trying to make sense of the world it was in, including the body. Around about two years of age, children start creating an identity for themselves (I, self, me). This came about by the mind, a by-product of brain activity. The brain is the only sub-organism of the body that does not have nerve ends of its own. So the mind cannot sense itself to determine what it is.

Hello Hermit, thank you for bringing out so many good thoughts on the issue.
Very in depth to what goes on with us as individuals, none believer as well as believer.
I see most of the the things we deal with basically as mind issues.
We all come from culture, a family background, so on and so forth playing a roll in us getting our minds fixed to the way we are as an individual.
I have a question if I may? do you see the sin nature, (before being born again), still having a large roll in our new walk. I see us in Christ with a new nature.
Let me say it like this! What looks like a sin nature in the believer, is really just the unrenewed mind. The mind that was trained from birth until new birth, by the sin nature.
So it's expression looks the same, but it is the mind now not the nature.
We have a new nature, the mind needs to learn this new nature (Christ) so it can have a new expression of that life. So anyway just wondering about your thoughts if you have any.

 

[th1b.taylor]

The cup Jesus drank from had in it the sin of the world, John 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

He became sin (if you can picture Adam hanging on that cross, you and I ), that we might become the righteousness of God in Christ. He took in His body every sin ever committed, suffered the curse of that sin (nature). He took in His body the sin of the world, the original sin, the sin-nature.
Nailing it to the tree, killing the "sin of the world" (nature) along with its death,
Gal. 3:13,
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The cup Jesus drank from had Adam and all His lineage. Ultimately it had the will of the Father in it.
Jesus did the will of His Father, redeeming humanity.
The finished work of the cross, was in the cup Jesus drank from.
He was Gods sacrificial lamb, He willingly came to die, to drink from the cup (the Fathers will) His Father gave Him to drink from.
Humanity for the first time since the fall in the garden, could be free from sin and its death-life (nature).
A friend of mine wrote a book about the cross, he did a great job going in depth of, the Atonement and Passover, two scapegoats, soul salvation, the oldman, the federal head and much much more.
I would do him a disservice trying to go into detail, it was an education of revelation that brought insite to one of the most understood subjects possibly in all scripture.
Our Father has gone to great lengths to fulfill His plan and purpose "before the foundation of the world."
Eph. 1:3-4,
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

My favorite teaching is the one that explains how God is everywhere at every time, all at once. I pray all of the time that people wrap their heads around how that is true. If they could get a grip on that they would not have a problem with this nor with any issue in the Scriptures.

 

[Hermit]

...I have a question if I may? do you see the sin nature, (before being born again), still having a large roll in our new walk. I see us in Christ with a new nature.
Let me say it like this! What looks like a sin nature in the believer, is really just the unrenewed mind. The mind that was trained from birth until new birth, by the sin nature.
So it's expression looks the same, but it is the mind now not the nature.
We have a new nature, the mind needs to learn this new nature (Christ) so it can have a new expression of that life. So anyway just wondering about your thoughts if you have any.

Hello Soul man.
Before awareness of Truth, we were blind to the truth, yet we sensed it but fear (lack of faith) blocked us from understanding it. Our ego was 'claiming' everything for itself. None of it was regarded to have come from Truth.
Then through faith, via ego-self sacrifice (our cross), we accepted our humility and became humble. In that humbleness we started to accept our own truth. Many have turned to Jesus Christ for not only truths, but also the Truth. We started to learn this new nature of become true based on the Truth (Unconditional Reality).
That Unconditional Reality (Truth) is naturally expressed as Unconditional Love. Both Truth and Love have exactly the same characteristic/traits (reliable, doubtless, secure, fearless, and unconditional [not needing anything to be True]).
So our new nature is to be True to the very core (Hebrew 4:12) so we can unconditionally express the nature of God/Truth as a witness for other to realize that God is with us, and will show Himself through our True New Nature. That is why we are here, we are not here for our ego-self (old nature), but to become our new nature.
We Christians are fortunately imbued with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth. We can sense the Love from the Truth. It is loving the Love which loves us that allows us to embrace the Truth of our new nature - one with God.

 

[Soul man]

Hello Soul man.
Before awareness of Truth, we were blind to the truth, yet we sensed it but fear (lack of faith) blocked us from understanding it. Our ego was 'claiming' everything for itself. None of it was regarded to have come from Truth.
Then through faith, via ego-self sacrifice (our cross), we accepted our humility and became humble. In that humbleness we started to accept our own truth. Many have turned to Jesus Christ for not only truths, but also the Truth. We started to learn this new nature of become true based on the Truth (Unconditional Reality).
That Unconditional Reality (Truth) is naturally expressed as Unconditional Love. Both Truth and Love have exactly the same characteristic/traits (reliable, doubtless, secure, fearless, and unconditional [not needing anything to be True]).
So our new nature is to be True to the very core (Hebrew 4:12) so we can unconditionally express the nature of God/Truth as a witness for other to realize that God is with us, and will show Himself through our True New Nature. That is why we are here, we are not here for our ego-self (old nature), but to become our new nature.
We Christians are fortunately imbued with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth. We can sense the Love from the Truth. It is loving the Love which loves us that allows us to embrace the Truth of our new nature - one with God.

I believe we are saying alot of the same things just different wording. For example; you use 'naturally expressed; I use the terminology 'spontaneous living.
I believe we are saying the same thing, any way thanks for your response.

 

[Soul man]

That is why we are here, we are not here for our ego-self (old nature), but to become our new nature.

Yes I totally agree, I see the two have become one. The new ceation is "Christ in you."
Christ without you is not the Fathers intention nor is mankind complete without Christ.
It's not all about me nor is it all about Him, it's about the new creation, the two cannot be viewed as separate beings.
I know this is what the Father sees when He looks at the new creation.
Some believers today in the world may not understand the birthing (born again), but regardless it is an act of God. They are as much a child as those that do understand. My understanding is, we need a gospel to go along with the new creation, for the renewing of the mind, and that's what the scriptures are.
Mind renewed to the Christ (nature) within, the nature of God being in Christ.
What would be your take on the believers hope?
Their seems to be many that struggle to put things together. Chopper and I got together talking about it, both having backgrounds in ministry.

 

[reba]

Recovering from knee replacement i have not montered this forum as it should be..Please stop the personal debates and attacks.
Do not reply to this post in this thread.

 

[Chopper]

When discussing the power of the Cross and everything it makes possible, this comment confounds me.



Why would anyone be so happy that the Father doesn't see them. Do you not exist to the Father? Why would you be relieved that He can not see you. The whole purpose of the Cross was to restore our relationship with the Father, so that we could come before his throne.

You pray to the Father in Jesus name, but then you are relieved that He doesn't see you. That make no sense. If He doesn't see you, then why should he answer your prayers? If you are so relieved that the Father can't see you, then why are you hiding from the Lord? Have you eaten from the tree of knowledge and taken unto yourself the cross as your covering for your sins so that you might hide from the face of the Father? Is that why the people return to Calvary after they first believed, to find their covering in His Death so that they might hide from the Father and His Wrath. Do they not yet understand the Grace and Mercy of the Lord that they continue to seek a covering to Hide themselves from the presence of the Lord.

1 John 2:22-25
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


How can anyone who would acknowledge the Son say the are relived that the Father can not see them; when he that acknowledges the Son hath the Father also. What is this power of the death of the cross that you teach?

Ok ezrider. I confess to you that I was wrong to address you, as my Brother, the way that I did. Can you forgive me? Lets forget about the past and treasure the future....You can ask me any question, and it will be an honor to answer your questions.

Now, for this post about me being grateful that Yahweh does not see me. He sees the Christ in me because He is holy and cannot look on sin. I am not perfected in this life, therefore there is sin lurking in my being. At any time, sin has the potential to surface in my life. There are sins of ignorance already in my being, therefore Yahweh has to look on His Son Who is in me or kill me by looking directly at me because of His holiness.

John 14:20 "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you." I'm posting this verse of Scripture because traditional Baptist doctrine is because Christ is in me, the Father sees Him, not me. Once I die and go to the New Jerusalem, I'm perfected and for the first time, God the Father can see Jesus' Bride of which I'm included.

Does this help?

 

[Chopper]

Galatians 2:17-21
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

If I through the law do reckon myself dead unto the law, then how do I do that? For I have been crucified with Christ, being made dead to the law. How am I dead to the law? How does the Cross help me to reckon myself dead to the law? For you shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I through the law am dead to the law because I stand GUILTY before the law. I am a hypocrite, I am prideful. I have worshiped idols, I have done all of these thing. Before the Law, I shall always know myself as guilty. But I am not under the law. I am dead to the Law, that I might serve in the newness of Life.

I do not need the cross any longer to save me from my sins, I am already dead to them. In my flesh, I will remain obedient to death, because I am guilty before the law. I do not try and hide my guilt beneath the covering of the cross. I am dead to the law. I do not need the blood of the cross to cover my sins when it is the blood of the covenant that I walk under. I am dead to the law, because I stand guilty before it. I am dead to the law, and I embrace it's curse, for by the law, and by the cross, Christ was made the curse for me.

This is interesting to me my friend. You state....For I through the law am dead to the law. Now I see this as I'm dead to the Law of Moses as it has to do with Salvation. I cannot be saved by observing the Law. My Salvation is thru the blood of Jesus Christ, His death, burial, and resurrection, and my belief and trust in that, not the Law.

Now, it seems to me that the "Law" includes all the commands of God thru thru Moses. What about the 10 Commandments? Are we supposed to just dismiss them as obsolete? My question to you is....

1John 3:22 "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

What about the Commandments? Are they not the Law of God?

 

[ezrider]

Recovering from knee replacement i have not montered this forum as it should be..Please stop the personal debates and attacks.
Do not reply to this post in this thread.

Sorry to hear about your knee replacement. I hope your recovery and rehabilitation goes well. I know after my dad had his knees replace years ago, and he had both replaced at the same time, that he became a lot more active than he was before.