- Nov 23, 2012
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People talk about this.
I can't find any Scripture to support it.
Is there any out there that you know of?
I can't find any Scripture to support it.
Is there any out there that you know of?
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We have been grafted into the Olive Branch and share in the roots. God didn't plant a whole new tree, and he is able to graft back in those who are natural branches along with us the wild branches.People talk about this.
I can't find any Scripture to support it.
Is there any out there that you know of?
But there's a thing called replacement theology.We have been grafted into the Olive Branch and share in the roots. God didn't plant a whole new tree, and he is able to graft back in those who are natural branches along with us the wild branches.
We share in the original Promises given to Israel through Abraham, as we are his children by faith. God has united all his people in the Messiah. The Messiah was the end purpose of the Law, and the end purpose of Israel.But there's a thing called replacement theology.
They say the promises to Israel now belong to the church.
What about that?
I don't see how that is true.
Thank you.We share in the original Promises given to Israel through Abraham, as we are his children by faith. God has united all his people in the Messiah. The Messiah was the end purpose of the Law, and the end purpose of Israel.
To bring about the restoration of creation and deal with the problem of sin. Israel hasn't been replaced, but rather summed up in the Messiah and we therefore share in that original root as a "wild olive branch."
I think Paul's Olive Tree analogy in Romans 11 best represents the theology. It isn't replacement theology, it's grafting IN theology.
Certainly there are nuances, and it is a huge subject, but so many of the errors in Church History come from replacement theology.
We have been grafted into the Olive Branch and share in the roots. God didn't plant a whole new tree, and he is able to graft back in those who are natural branches along with us the wild branches.
We share in the original Promises given to Israel through Abraham, as we are his children by faith. God has united all his people in the Messiah. The Messiah was the end purpose of the Law, and the end purpose of Israel.
To bring about the restoration of creation and deal with the problem of sin. Israel hasn't been replaced, but rather summed up in the Messiah and we therefore share in that original root as a "wild olive branch."
I think Paul's Olive Tree analogy in Romans 11 best represents the theology. It isn't replacement theology, it's grafting IN theology.
Certainly there are nuances, and it is a huge subject, but so many of the errors in Church History come from replacement theology.
There are specific historical promises, and ones that pertain directly to the Jews.Thank you.
Maybe you can answer some more.
God made promises to the Israelites.
Many of these promises don't fit the Gentiles.
I'm not too sure, I don't major on prophecy, simply because so many people make such huge claims that usually don't amount to much. I think at the very least it is setting the stage for the fulfillment of additional prophecy.Did the Jews coming back to their land in 1948 fulfill a prophesy?
If it did, it was separate from the Gentiles.
Replacement theology wouldn't fit.
Indeed, the whole of the NT is consistent with this message.It seems there is a great revival of Jews in the Book of Revelation that is separate from the Gentiles.
Totally on point brother.I don't know the verses but I remember there being promises made to the Jews that could not be to the Gentiles.
Am I right about these things or am I way off base?
I would have to say the answer to the OP is both yes and no. I would say yes in the physical aspect that the church buildings and cathedrals have replaced the temple worship in a form, and have also inherited the idolatry that came with it. But in the truer sense of the church, I would have to say no; for the true church is the body of Christ. Since the time of the exodus, the true church was offered to the children of Israel, but they chose to follow Moses instead.
Jeremiah 31 is chapter that prophesied of the new covenant that God promised to the children of Israel. It is the covenant prophesied of in Daniel 9:27. It is the covenant that Christ confirmed and sealed in his blood on the cross. But I wanted to point out something interesting just to give it some consideration.
Jeremiah 31:27-30
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord,
that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah
with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them,
to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down,
and to destroy, and to afflict;
so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the Lord.
In those days they shall say no more,
The fathers have eaten a sour grape,
and the children's teeth are set on edge.
But every one shall die for his own iniquity:
every man that eateth the sour grape,
his teeth shall be set on edge.
I has always seemed apparent to me in some way that under the old covenant the nation was bound to the covenant as a whole. It was always the Nation of Israel that was punished for the transgressions of the people. If I remember correctly, I believe the nation was punished for David's transgression in numbering the people. The destruction of the temple and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD was the final judgement upon a people, and a covenant nation. Here Jeremiah seems to call out a distinction in the new covenant, in that now instead of a nation, each person shall die for his own iniquity.
First a congratulations to Sparrowhawk on the return and an offering of prayer for that broken sternum, keep that pillow very close.Thank you.
Maybe you can answer some more.
God made promises to the Israelites.
Many of these promises don't fit the Gentiles.
It seems that God still has to deal with the Jews that is separate from the Gentiles.
Did the Jews coming back to their land in 1948 fulfill a prophesy?
If it did, it was separate from the Gentiles.
Replacement theology wouldn't fit.
It seems there is a great revival of Jews in the Book of Revelation that is separate from the Gentiles.
I don't know the verses but I remember there being promises made to the Jews that could not be to the Gentiles.
Am I right about these things or am I way off base?
I would have to say the answer to the OP is both yes and no. I would say yes in the physical aspect that the church buildings and cathedrals have replaced the temple worship in a form, and have also inherited the idolatry that came with it. But in the truer sense of the church, I would have to say no; for the true church is the body of Christ. Since the time of the exodus, the true church was offered to the children of Israel, but they chose to follow Moses instead.
As with all things one must take into account every aspect of the topic at hand. like the old debate about where we go in death (which seldom takes into account that we are a threefold being). Part (the soul) ceases to exist as it is a buffer between the two realities of the spiritual and the physical. The body sleeps (lifeless unconscious and decays), the spirit goes to heaven with Jesus or to sheol for unbelievers...
THIS topic must also include all the aspects of Israel. Physical Israel, the elect / chosen people of this life. Spirit Israel the elect / chosen people of heaven.
Romans 9:1-6 (NASB95)
1 I am telling the truth in Christ, I am not lying, my conscience testifies with me in the Holy Spirit,
2 that I have great sorrow and unceasing grief in my heart.
3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh,
4 who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises,
5 whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.
6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel;
Clearly the distinction is between spiritual and physical.
Romans 2:28-29 (NASB95)
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.
The Church does not replace anyone. It is grafted into the spiritual Israel and in fact is Spirit Israel though most will not believe it.
You will not find any scripture to support the claim that the Church has replaced Israel. The Church and Israel are two very distinct entities.People talk about this.
I can't find any Scripture to support it.
Is there any out there that you know of?
You will not find any scripture to support the claim that the Church has replaced Israel. The Church and Israel are two very distinct entities.
The Church~~Heavenly claim
Israel~~Earthly claim
The new heavens and the new earth are set up for the church and Israel respectively.
(1) Israel will be a nation forever. (2) Israel will possess a significant portion of land forever. (3) Israel will have a King ruler over her forever. (4) Israel will have a throne from which Christ will rule forever. (5) Israel will have a kingdom forever.
God will make a New Covenant with them in the future. As a result of this New Covenant, there will be abiding blessings.
I'm not there at all ER.The temple of God is not present in the Churches Buildings except there be, at least, one Saved Person there. Empty the building and the Temple of god is not there. i.e. when Jesus told them that if they tore this (Him) temple down He woulld rebuild it in three days. there is more there than the prophecy of His resurrection. He, as the human follower of God the Father, is the Temple. In the same manor, we, the followers of Jesus, who followed the Father, are the living Temples of God.
My bad then, sorry.Bill, I think you read something into my post that was never there. I know fully well that the temple of God resides in our hearts. I did not say that the church has become the temple. What I said is the the church has taken after the former in a fashion, most notably in that the church has adopted the same idolatry that plagued the temple.
I agree, a church building is nothing but an empty building; But why then do the people treat them as if they are holy ground, or that they are sanctified? Why are they filled with pictures and statues so that you might idolize the figure? Why do other certain people seek out a church specifically for vandalism? Is it not because they have been conditioned to see it as God's sanctuary, and their act of vandalism is an act of defiance in the face of God.
If we are the temple of God, then the Spirit of Christ dwells with us. So if the Spirit of Christ be with you, why do you look for another?