Grazer
Member
I heard John Lennox once say "I know many atheists who are more Christian than the Christians I know"
Oh so true
Christian Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
-
-
How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
-
Have we gone too far with the judging?
- Thread starter Grazer
- Start date
I heard John Lennox once say "I know many atheists who are more Christian than the Christians I know"
Oh so true
A
Aardverk
Guest
That's encouraging.
It presumably indicates that people are thinking for themselves rather than accepting the historical 'judgmental' approach of their elders. Perhaps education is working at last.
(EDIT: With hind-sight, I see now how my words could be misinterpreted. For clarity, I believe that the 'Biblical Worldview', described above by Sparrowhawke, is damaging to Christianity. It has been and is still is a major cause of division, almost on par with the inquisitions and domination from Rome.)
Last edited by a moderator:
This is by no means an invitation for a "free-for-all," fight, battle, broil, brouhaha, fracus, or row.
Instead, it serves as an admonition and calling for the opposite of that. Social agreement, accord, affinity, amicability, amity, compatibility, concord, consensus, consistency, cooperation, correspondence, empathy, friendship, good will, kinship, like-mindedness, meeting of minds, peace, rapport, sympathy, tranquility, unanimity, understanding, unity.
Nobody is expected to achieve these lofty goals by themselves or in a day. But those who demonstrate that they are not able to abide within the Terms of Service Agreement will be firmly asked to leave. That type of "request" typically is made in a gentle fashion and progresses to includes the Warning / Discipline process. Exceptions can be made for those who have gone above and beyond in their attempts to ignore the Mission Statement.
A
Aardverk
Guest
Sorry to stray off-topic Grazer but I feel that I have a 'right to reply'.
As for 'shushing Christians' what on earth do you mean by that? I may obviously disagree with people, some of them will be Christians, and I will express a contrary view. Is that what you mean by 'shushing'? My disagreement with someone! Come now
are you 'shushing' someone if you disagree with them? Of course not.
If by 'shushing' you mean that I am against people judging one another, then you would be right. However, as that is the subject of the thread, I think it reasonable that I am allowed to express my opinion that the judging should stop - it is not our place. Some very good biblical reasons have been given above why we should not judge one another - are they 'shushing' too?
You have once again perverted a thread into a spurious personal comment about me. The thread is 'Have we gone too far with judging?' Try to stick to that please Edward.
I don't know what you have been reading Edward but some of my favorite threads are discussions of differing interpretations of specific passages; I have started several. The only problem is that some fool usually says to me, 'you can't understand it because you are not a Christian' :halo
As for 'shushing Christians' what on earth do you mean by that? I may obviously disagree with people, some of them will be Christians, and I will express a contrary view. Is that what you mean by 'shushing'? My disagreement with someone! Come now
are you 'shushing' someone if you disagree with them? Of course not.If by 'shushing' you mean that I am against people judging one another, then you would be right. However, as that is the subject of the thread, I think it reasonable that I am allowed to express my opinion that the judging should stop - it is not our place. Some very good biblical reasons have been given above why we should not judge one another - are they 'shushing' too?
You have once again perverted a thread into a spurious personal comment about me. The thread is 'Have we gone too far with judging?' Try to stick to that please Edward.
Lennox appears to have no understanding of what a Christian or an atheist is.
Psalm 14:1 (ESV)
1 The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
there is none who does good.
Last edited by a moderator:
All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Romans 8:28
If we say, "We have no sin," we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8 HCSB
Proverbs 21:2-3.
All a man's ways seem right to him, but the Lord weighs the heart. To do what is right and just is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice.
A self-righteous man as Gandhi will have his heart searched by God and justice will be given to him accordingly.
It's not for you or me to decide.
I don't judge them I simply tell them what God has to say on the matter of sin, judgment, heaven and hell.
It's an act of love to do that. To know someone is facing damnation and not warn them or tell them there is a better way is an act of hate and evil in my eyes.
The last I heard Mahatma Gandhi rejected faith in Jesus Christ. I hope he changed before he died.
When I tell my employee that if he continues to drink and drive and is found out by the law he will do jail time it is not me judging him. It's me telling him what the judge said he will do.
When I warn someone of eternal doom it's not that I judge them it's me telling or reminding them of what the judge said he will do.
The judge is God. I am his servant doing his work.
Who is being judged in the OP's post are those servants who are doing the work Jesus calld us to do. "teach all"
Satan is always trying to get God's people to stop obeying God and teach/preach all scripture.
When I warn someone of eternal doom it's not that I judge them it's me telling or reminding them of what the judge said he will do.
The judge is God. I am his servant doing his work.
Who is being judged in the OP's post are those servants who are doing the work Jesus calld us to do. "teach all"
Satan is always trying to get God's people to stop obeying God and teach/preach all scripture.
Last edited by a moderator:
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
I don't believe anyone has called anyone else's faith or character into question. Study habits or commitment to actually understanding what one is talking about? Now that's another story.
Last edited by a moderator:
vocalyocal
Member
If this is a Christian forum, and people here all declare they are followers of Christ and part of the body, then you really have opened yourself up to be judged in your theories and doctrine and practices, and how these things stand up against the plainly written word of God..............If you don't want to be judged, then just say your an unbeliever, and the same word of God that demands your doctrines and practices be judged, is the same book that says not to judge you
Grazer
Member
Well so far I've been accused of being evil, being a wolf in sheeps clothing, denying the word of God, denying God...that'll do for starters, you still struggling to see why I may have taken offense?
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Please show me where you have been called "evil" "denying God" etc., Grazer? Not that I can see. And as an addictions counselor well familiar with projection, I have to agree with Edward.
Grazer
Member
I'm not struggling to see why you have taken offense. I see that.I think what you are doing is called projection by doctors. While you are calling others judgmental, you yourself are being judgmental, thereby projecting it onto others.
Or it could be that people are being judgemental which is why I feel it. Your statement doesn't really prove much other than that we see it differently.....now where else has that cropped up I wonder......
Right. This is a Christian forum! I think that sometimes people come here looking for affirmation to their thoughts about scripture and Christianity, and when they do not get the response that gives them this...they feel judged and convicted within themselves. People can read into scripture whatever they want and even ignore the voice of the Holy Spirit if they so choose, but people are dynamic and can't be stopped from speaking their mind here.
That's when the accusations start. You're judging me, being Holier than thou or elitist. (Trying to shush them). They try to play on peoples sense of amicability since most people want to be thought of as nice, be accepted, and not to be the one who stirs up controversy. I wonder...do they do this out of a sense of personal conviction or outright malice? Scripture says that the world will hate Christians. Truth hurts. The only one that matters is God Almighty. So the world will hate me, I understand this and will not turn my back on God just because some man dangles the carrot of oh I might like you if you let me post my untruths in peace without challenge. Hmmm.
I would only add wanting us to tell them their choices which are clearly spoken against in scripture are OK and some a step farther wanting us to pretend their actions are of God.
thisnumbersdisconnected
Member
Ooooooo ... the gauntlet has been cast down!
You could have slapped someone with it by adding that they want us to buy into the idea they "have never felt closer to God."
That might have gone too far.
duari91
Member
Thought I would chime in here.
There is a difference between confrontation, and judgement. We can and should confront, but we should not judge. Just think about what you are doing when you "Judge."
When you judge, you are taking what you see/know and applying it to their ultimate destination. No one here can give ultimate life or death. No one. So why should anyone have the ability to question another persons destination? The truth is simple, we don't know the hearts of our fellow brothers and sisters. No one can tell me I am truly saved or condemned based off of what you see or hear. Only God can judge the heart, and trust me, he will. Leave it to our Lord to do that which is right! To condemn those who need condemnation, and save those who were gifted salvation through Christ.
Remember, those who you think are first here, will be last there. Those who you think are last here, will be first there. Can you call the order in which people will reside in heaven? Heck, as humans we are so naive. We argue over petty things like food and water, we can't even hope to conceive of true Judgement. So let us confront our fellow brothers and sisters, and let us confront those whom we know are admitted unbelievers. Flag false prophets, false teachers, and false preachers. Don't get caught up in hypocrisy like the pharisee. Judging every move that Jesus made.
Tread lightly friends!
There is a difference between confrontation, and judgement. We can and should confront, but we should not judge. Just think about what you are doing when you "Judge."
When you judge, you are taking what you see/know and applying it to their ultimate destination. No one here can give ultimate life or death. No one. So why should anyone have the ability to question another persons destination? The truth is simple, we don't know the hearts of our fellow brothers and sisters. No one can tell me I am truly saved or condemned based off of what you see or hear. Only God can judge the heart, and trust me, he will. Leave it to our Lord to do that which is right! To condemn those who need condemnation, and save those who were gifted salvation through Christ.
Remember, those who you think are first here, will be last there. Those who you think are last here, will be first there. Can you call the order in which people will reside in heaven? Heck, as humans we are so naive. We argue over petty things like food and water, we can't even hope to conceive of true Judgement. So let us confront our fellow brothers and sisters, and let us confront those whom we know are admitted unbelievers. Flag false prophets, false teachers, and false preachers. Don't get caught up in hypocrisy like the pharisee. Judging every move that Jesus made.
Tread lightly friends!
A
Aardverk
Guest
That seems just, reasonable and sensible allenwynne - just as Gandhi was. An attitude worthy of a 'Christian' instead of unjust mindless Bible thumping.You evidently disagree with those who say that non-Christians are automatically excluded from Heaven. Can I take it also that you disagree with those who say that those who do not accept Jesus are evil sinners and damned to hell?