He Rose On Sunday True or False

[Webers_Home]

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An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. __ Since Jesus arose on the third day, and early... sometime before dawn...we must understand that Jesus was using the "sign of Jonah" as a metaphor. It's always a mistake to take metaphors literally... which is at the heart of some of the theories put forth here.

Well; as for me, I decline to understand that Jonah's experience was a metaphor because the wording of the New Testament and the wording of Old Testament are essentially identical.

†. Jonah 1:17 . . Yhvh provided a great fish to swallow Jonah; and Jonah was inside the fish three days and three nights.

†. Mtt 12:40-41 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Since we know for proof positive from Mrk 9:31, Luke 18:33, Luke 24:6-7, Luke 24:46, Luke 24:21, and 1Cor 15:4 that Mtt 12:40-41 meant the Lord would revive on the third day instead of after it was over; then I believe it is perfectly safe to assume Jonah 1:17 means the very same thing; and John 2:19 too.

Cliff
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[John 8:32]

Originally Posted by JMJ
Mark 16:9 (NKJV) Now when He rose early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven demons.

He (Jesus Christ) rose from the dead on Sunday the first day of the week. This is true. :yes

Hard to get around this one... Not that I think some won't try! :D

Just out of curiosity, when do the days begin? Sunset not midnight. Surely you are well read enough to know this without having to quote verses.

The harvest of the Wave Sheaf was carried out by the priest and done right at sunset between the Sabbath and the first day of the week that fell within the Days of Unleavened Bread. This ceremony depicted the resurrection of Jesus from the dead and then the waving of the offering the morning of the first day of the week depicted Christ's ascension to Heaven presenting Himself as the sacrifice for all mankind.

 

[John 8:32]

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According to the passages below; the Lord revived sometime on the third day rather than after the third day was over.

†. Mrk 9:31 . .The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

†. Luke 18:33 . . And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

†. Luke 24:6-7 . . He is not here; he has risen! Remember how he told you, while he was still with you in Galilee: The Son of Man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.

†. Luke 24:46 . .Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day

†. Luke 24:21-23 . .Today is the third day since these things were done. In addition, some of our women amazed us. They went to the tomb early this morning but didn't find his body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was alive.

So then 72 hours is way over budget because in order to rise after the completion of 72 hours, the Lord would have to rise sometime during a fourth day instead of a third.

Others insist the Lord rose sometime during a night instead of a day, but that theory is easily refuted when the passages above are correlated with the ones below.

†. Gen 1:3-5 . . And God said: Let there be light! and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day and the darkness He called Night.

†. Gen 1:14-16 . . And God said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. God made two great lights: the greater light to govern the Day and the lesser light to govern the Night.

In other words: Day is when the sun is up, and Night is when the sun is down; and the preponderance of evidence clearly shows that the Lord rose during a day rather than during a night.

†. John 11:9 . . Jesus answered: are there not twelve hours in the day?

Israel's civil day ran from Rome's 6:am in the morning till Rome's 6:pm in the afternoon; and Israel's civil night ran from Rome's 6:pm in the afternoon till Rome's 6:am the next morning. So in order for the Lord to revive on a day, which he did, then he had to wake up sometime after Rome's 6:am rather than before their 6:am.

Note : Ancient Rome's 6:am (which coincided with the Jews' first hour of the day) was reckoned from midnight no matter what season of the year it was; and no matter whether the sun was full up or yet still rising.

The reason I felt it important to point all that out is because there's always at least one or two in the crowd who fixate on Hebrew 24-hour days— which begin and end at sundown —and of course by doing so throw their chronology into oscillating vapor lock right at the get go.

Cliff
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You forgot a couple...

Mat 27:63 saying, “Sir, we remember, while He was still alive, how that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise.’

Mark 8:31 [ Jesus Predicts His Death and Resurrection ] And He began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Mark 14:58 “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’â€

Now take all the scriptures and put them together and the only time period that can satisfy them all is exactly three days and nights.

 

[John 8:32]

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If we go by God's definitions of Day and Night as per Gen 1:3-5, it's readily seen that God worked only in light and never in darkness. Here's how:

In the Bible, the term "morning" suffices for the daytime hours between sunrise and high noon when the sun is increasing in elevation; and the term "evening" suffices for the daytime hours between high noon and sunset when the sun is losing elevation. For some odd reason, there's no specific word in the Old Testament for "afternoon"


The day in that passage is obviously more than 12 hours and a primo example where "day" indicates an era rather than a portion of a normal week.

Cliff
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Not obvious to me, God says one evening and one morning. The days begin at sunset so a dark period and a light period quantifies one day. Seems to me what you assume to be obvious may only be obvious if you have pre-conceived ideas.

 

[John 8:32]

Someone help me out on the ultimate point here.

If we are going to stick with the Saturday night, because the Jewish Sabbath was from sun down on Friday night to sundown on Saturday night... and the first day began on sundown Saturday night (which I agree with)... then Jesus rose on Sunday, not the Sabbath.

This doesn't in any way remove Sunday from being resurrection day.

As of this moment, as I was typing here, the sun went down. According to Jewish calendars, it's now Saturday. 24 hours from now will be Sunday, the first day of the week.

If one wants to hold to the Jewish tradition of time-keeping, then by all means, keep the Sabbath from sundown on Friday to sundown on Saturday...but that still leaves one with needing to acknowledge that Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday.

Interesting that you call this a Jewish tradition of time keeping. Judah, the very first jew live around 1755 BC or approximately 2245 years after Gen 2:1-3. You surely aren't using the term Jewish correctly here, why are you using it?

The Sabbath was established at creation. It was in existence before Mt Sinai...

Ex 16:28 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

God is asking why they refuse to keep the Sabbath. How could they refuse to keep a day that was not in existence until 20 some days later? (This is 30 days after the Passover and the law was given on Pentecost which is 50 days after the first day of the week that falls within the Days of Unleavend Bread.

Then the little matter of Jesus Christ, who was the Lord of the O.T. saying that He was Lord of the Sabbath.

One may use whatever terms one likes here, but nothing changes the fact that the day God blessed and sanctified (set apart for holy use) is the seventh day of the week.

This is the crux of the matter, trying to place the resurrection on Easter Sunday morning is the justification used for Sunday worship and has no scriptural basis.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify." - James Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept? "Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority." - Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day —Saturday — for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes. Did Christ change the day'? I answer no! - James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter.

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the [Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible." - Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art. "To Tell You the Truth."

"Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

1.That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.

2.We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws.

"It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is NOTHING in their Bible." - Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." - T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

All according to whom your authority is.

 

[Slider]

Mary Magdalene et al could have easily bought/purchased the burial spices on Saturday evening, after the Sabbath was completed at sundown on Saturday, in order to use them early the next morning:

Mark 16:1-3 NKJV
[ He Is Risen ] Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. 2 Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. 3 And they said among themselves, “Who will roll away the stone from the door of the tomb for us?â€

Ok, that is true, but she could not have prepared the spices before the Sabbath. How is she going to buy them after the sabbath and prepare them before the sabbath?

Luk 23:56


And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

 

[Slider]

I don't see Matthew 28:1 saying that He was "already gone by sundown Saturday".

Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave. Matthew 28:1

"as it began to dawn" epiphosko: to grow light, to dawn.

QUOTE]

Handy,

The KJV says "In the end of the sabbath as it began to dawn toward the first day...." Being in the end of a day does not mean the day is over. When it begins to dawn toward the first day means that the first day is about to begin. The root word in greek also means to illuminate in a figurative way. Even the word itself can be figurative.

I understand you are using a different version of the Bible, and I am not going to fault you for that. If you want to stick by that, that's fine and you should. However, the KJV says what it says and arguing which version is correct isn't something I am going to do. I will simply acknowledge that we will not come to an agreement on this point.

 

[handy]

Slider,

One thing I dislike about "let's agree to disagree" is that we seem to settle for something less than the truth. When there is an honest disagreement between two Christians over a Scriptural point, I for one, like to exhaust every possible avenue to try to reconcile the opposing viewpoints.

So, I pulled up my trusty "Blue Letter Bible" which has an exhaustive Strong's concordance and looked up Matthew 28:1.

The first thing I saw was that the phrase "In the end" had a notation. Looking up the phrase, I see that it is defined as this:

1) after a long time, long after, late
a) late in the day, i.e. at evening
b) the sabbath having just passed, after the sabbath
1) at the early dawn of the first day of the week


This is reconciles with the many texts which state outright that Jesus rose on the first day and that Jesus would rise on the third day (of being in the grave).

 

[Slider]

I've been re-reading parts of this very long thread...

...and one thing I hadn't really taken note of before is how some have fixed themselves on a "72 hour" time frame, as if the Bible states that Jesus was in the grave for 72 hours.

Nowhere in the Bible is the term 72 hours used. Jesus said that He would be in the grave for three days and three nights. Elsewhere, Jesus said that He would rise on the third day. The fact that He was going to rise on the third day (not the beginning of the forth) means that we automatically have something less than 72 hours to work with.

We also know that Jesus rose early on the third day. So, the 72 hours is shortened even more so.

I think if some let go of the erroneous idea that Jesus said, "I will be in the ground for 72 hours" instead of saying what He actually said which was"

“An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Since Jesus arose on the third day, and early... sometime before dawn...we must understand that Jesus was using the "sign of Jonah" as a metaphor. It's always a mistake to take metaphors literally... which is at the heart of some of the theories put forth here.

No, Jesus said he would be in the heart of the earth 3 days and 3 nights. That is what he said. So you may not like "72 hours", ok fine. Could it mean 72 hours? Yes. But can three days and three nights mean one day and two nights (which it is if you believe in a friday crucifixtion and Sunday ressurection)? NO. If you want to say that part of Friday is one day, and go forth and count Sunday morning (even though he was already out of the grave by then) as a day you STILL don't have 3 days and 3 nights.

 

[Slider]

Slider,

One thing I dislike about "let's agree to disagree" is that we seem to settle for something less than the truth. When there is an honest disagreement between two Christians over a Scriptural point, I for one, like to exhaust every possible avenue to try to reconcile the opposing viewpoints.

So, I pulled up my trusty "Blue Letter Bible" which has an exhaustive Strong's concordance and looked up Matthew 28:1.

The first thing I saw was that the phrase "In the end" had a notation. Looking up the phrase, I see that it is defined as this:

1) after a long time, long after, late
a) late in the day, i.e. at evening
b) the sabbath having just passed, after the sabbath
1) at the early dawn of the first day of the week


This is reconciles with the many texts which state outright that Jesus rose on the first day and that Jesus would rise on the third day (of being in the grave).

I did not say lets agree to disagree, I said that I acknowledge that if we are using different versions of the Bible we are not going to come to an agreement.

I don't need more than the KJV to get the story right. I also don't need Strong's to get the story right either.

Please tell me how the women bought spices after the sabbath and prepared them before the sabbath. Please tell me when the Chief Priests and Pharisees asked Pilot for a guard, and when exactly did the Roman guards do their job?

Tell me how you can possibly fit 3 days and 3 nights (other than just outright denying that is what Jesus said) into your theory of Friday afternoon and Sunday morning.

 

[Webers_Home]

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[Webers_Home]

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God says one evening and one morning. The days begin at sunset so a dark period and a light period quantifies one day.

Technically, and chronologically, an evening and a morning constitute a night rather than a day.

However, if we assign "morning" to indicate the daylight hours between sunrise and high noon, and assign "evening" to indicate the daylight hours between high noon and sundown, then we have a day in accordance with Bible's own definitions of Day and Night at Gen 1:3-5, Gen 1:14-16, and John 11:9

Cliff
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[Webers_Home]

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Now take all the scriptures and put them together and the only time period that can satisfy them all is exactly three days and nights.

I don't know about you, but when I put all the scriptures together, the only time frame that can satisfy them all is three full nights, two full days, plus one partial day. Any scheme that has the Lord reviving after the completion of a third day, puts him reviving on a fourth day; which of course is not only unworkable, but also totally unacceptable.

Cliff
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[Free]

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I don't know about you, but when I put all the scriptures together, the only time frame that can satisfy them all is three full nights, two full days, plus one partial day. Any scheme that has the Lord reviving after the completion of a third day, puts him reviving on a fourth day; which of course is not only unworkable, but also totally unacceptable.

Cliff
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It it important to note that the use of "day" need not refer to a 24-hour period of time. It was acceptable to refer to part of a day as a day. So two full days and part of a day would still be considered three days.

 

[handy]

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I don't know about you, but when I put all the scriptures together, the only time frame that can satisfy them all is three full nights, two full days, plus one partial day. Any scheme that has the Lord reviving after the completion of a third day, puts him reviving on a fourth day; which of course is totally unacceptable.

Cliff
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Yes, there is are many texts which speak of His rising on the third day, not after the third day.

Cliff, what do you think the timeline is...with three full nights, two full days, plus one partial day? Do you believe that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday or Thursday? I've heard of Wednesday being the probable day of His crucifixion, but if He died on Wednesday, He would be in the grave longer than three days...for we know that they hurried to get Him buried, prior to sundown and the beginning of the Sabbath. As you say, we cannot go into a fourth day...the Scriptures are quite clear He rose on the third and that the third day was Sunday.

Please tell me how the women bought spices after the sabbath and prepared them before the sabbath. Please tell me when the Chief Priests and Pharisees asked Pilot for a guard, and when exactly did the Roman guards do their job?

Mark 16:1 and Luke 24:1 shows us that the women bought the spices when the Sabbath was over. According to John, Nicodemus had also bought spices and they bound the body and wrapped it with the spices. While none of the Gospels specifically mention the exact time the women and Nicodemus made their purchases, Nicodemus must have purchased his sometime on Friday, prior to sundown and the women, since Mark states they bought the spices after the Sabbath, would have to have purchased theirs Saturday night, after sundown and then they went to further anoint the body early on Sunday morning, around dawn.

The Chief Priests asked Pilot for a guard the day after the day of preparation ...which was the Sabbath day. Matthew 27:62 makes this quite clear.

The Scriptures don't tell us exactly when the guards showed up. Sometime after the Pharisee's went to Pilot on the Sabbath. (Not that they really did much of a job...but their job was impossible anyway.)

It it important to note that the use of "day" need not refer to a 24-hour period of time. It was acceptable to refer to part of a day as a day. So two full days and part of a day would still be considered three days.

Wouldn't this hold true with a Friday crucifixion as well. It's certainly what I've been taught... that because He died on Friday, all of Friday would be counted as a day and because He rose on Sunday, all of Sunday would be counted as a day. With the Hebrew reckoning of time, and days beginning the night before, I've always understood the timeline to be crucified on Friday and lain in the grave that day, with all of Saturday in the grave, all of Sunday night in the grave and rising just before dawn on Sunday morning.

This satisfies the hurried preparations on preparation day... the first day resurrection. The resurrection being on the third day, not after it...

...and it satisfies the sign Jesus gave, the sign of Jonah, because in Jewish reckoning, the days would be Friday daytime = day 1, Saturday daytime= day 2 and Sunday dawn = day 3 for the days and Thursday night (remember Jews count the day as starting the night before as night one, Friday night as night 2 and Saturday night as night 3.

As I mentioned earlier, I think it's a big mistake to hold fast to the idea that three days and nights must mean 72 hours.

Not only does this make sense, given the Jewish reckoning of days, but it also makes sense out of the fact that very early on in our Body's history and historical accounts we see that Christians observed Friday as the day of crucifixion and Sunday as the day of resurrection.

That Sunday is the resurrection day is unarguable...the Scriptures clearly say that He arose on the first day. Nowhere is the day of His death mentioned, but unless there were back to back Sabbath days that year...making both Friday and Saturday each Sabbath days...then Friday as the day of the crucifixion makes the most sense.

 

[Justice]

Oh, I agree Cliff.

As a matter of fact, I could give a pretty good case on the fact that if one is a Christian, one is in fact in the Sabbath rest... as the sacrifices ended with Christ's sacrifice, we are ushered into the New Covenant of Sabbath rest...

...but that's a whole other topic!

Did you mention animal sacrifice ;)? The old Sabbath ---

Sabbath Sacrifices:

In addition to the daily sacrifice there was the Sabbath sacrifice.
Numbers 28: 9: And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot ...
10: This is the burnt offering of every Sabbath beside the continual burnt offering ...

This meant that in the course of a 12 month year (48 Sabbaths) another 96 lambs were sacrificed in addition to the 708 daily sacrifice total. (Source) --- http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/sacrific.html#part2-3

We have Christians with the old Torah/Talmud mindset in many ways including the Sabbath. The Seventh-Day Adventists built their whole denomination around the old Sabbath day covenant which requires animal sacrifices. For the Jews that don't believe the Messiah has come, where are the animal sacrifices? I agree Handy, it's all about the New Covenant which is Jesus Christ the Lamb offering for all and always.

The Word is clear Jesus Christ rose on the 1st day of the week and after all he has done and does for us he has his day (The Lord's Day).

Sunday --- True (Jesus Christ Lord of the Sabbath).

 

[handy]

Did you mention animal sacrifice ;)? The old Sabbath ---

Sabbath Sacrifices:

In addition to the daily sacrifice there was the Sabbath sacrifice.
Numbers 28: 9: And on the Sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot ...
10: This is the burnt offering of every Sabbath beside the continual burnt offering ...

This meant that in the course of a 12 month year (48 Sabbaths) another 96 lambs were sacrificed in addition to the 708 daily sacrifice total. (Source) --- http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/vital/sacrific.html#part2-3

We have Christians with the old Torah/Talmud mindset in many ways including the Sabbath. The Seventh-Day Adventists built their whole denomination around the old Sabbath day covenant which requires animal sacrifices. For the Jews that don't believe the Messiah has come, where are the animal sacrifices? I agree Handy, it's all about the New Covenant which is Jesus Christ the Lamb offering for all and always.

The Word is clear Jesus Christ rose on the 1st day of the week and after all he has done and does for us he has his day (The Lord's Day).

Sunday --- True (Jesus Christ Lord of the Sabbath).

:yes

 

[Fedusenko]

Is Sunday worship scriptual or a doctrine of man?

 

[handy]

I believe it to be Scriptural... although others choose to try to explain away the texts which speak of the early church gathering on Sunday to break bread and take up collections.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

Is Sunday worship scriptual or a doctrine of man?

Doctrine of man, the apostles worshipped daily. Theres nothing wrong with Sunday worship of course. But it is not a "holy day". Nor is it scriptural. Its something of a perversion of the Sabbath, taking worship from the last day of the week, then placing it on the first...the day of the "sun".