Healing and visions?

[Brother Mike]

Do you believe it is possible to lose salvation and it is more than faith alone in Christ alone?

I cant go any farther than your first statement sir.

Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
(1Pe 4:19)

Then you say it is not Gods will for them to suffer. I know it is not worth my time to read the rest. The message is going to be false.

Read the whole chapter in context. It does not say it's God's will they suffer. It says let them suffer according to the will of God.

But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
(1Pe 4:15)

Is murder God's will? Nope.
is busybody God's will? Nope.

Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
(1Pe 4:16)

Is being a Christian the will of God? Yep.

If we suffer, let it be the will of God, not that it's God's will we suffer. If we suffer doing the will of God, then lets keep our souls in WELL DOING. In other words don't let adversity get your discouraged and take you out of the will of God.

Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
(1Pe 4:19)


Be not Wary in Well doing.

AMP:
Therefore, those who are ill-treated and suffer in accordance with God's will must do right and commit their souls [in charge as a deposit] to the One Who created [them] and will never fail [them].
(1Pe 4:19)

MSG:
So if you find life difficult because you're doing what God said, take it in stride. Trust him. He knows what he's doing, and he'll keep on doing it.
(1Pe 4:19)

Read the whole chapter in it's context. The Chapter mentions nothing about sickness, but talks about well doing and taking wrong for doing right.

BTW, I do take time to read your whole post, I don't look for false, I look for hope that you will see what others here see. It's not God's will that we suffer, or be sick. Had it been his Will that we be suffering and sick, then we never would have been instructed to resist the devil in faith.

 

[Blake]

What was the message? And what KNOWN language was it in?

Amongst other things...

"Even greater things I will show you, if only you will seek My face."

Glory to God.

 

[Willie T]

I'm all ears. But just to warn you, I've pretty much heard it all at this point.

Well, then I will just assume that you already know the answer. Saves me having to go into a lot of explanation.

 

[reba]

That is part of the reason why I don't think The Gift of healing is part of christiandom after 96 AD. We have the living and completed word, Men do not need to heal today to "prove" the living word. The Word is alive and powerful, the word can stand alone.

Exo_15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.
Mal_3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

[Gary]

Hebrews 13
8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[Willie T]

What was the message? And what KNOWN language was it in?

You're being a little silly, aren't you? If he did not know the language, and it was interpreted so he could know what was said, how is he supposed to know what language it was? The Bible says nothing whatsoever about the "interpreter" having to be a person who can speak the language they are spiritually (or supernaturally) "interpreting".... they just understand, in their minds, the message that was uttered in some other language. They are not fluent in the language, any more than the person who "spoke" the message was.

I think you are letting yourself get so fanatical about trying to say tongues are not for today, that you are spouting illogical and meaningless things as some sort of proof of something.

 

[gr8grace3]

You're being a little silly, aren't you? If he did not know the language, and it was interpreted so he could know what was said, how is he supposed to know what language it was? The Bible says nothing whatsoever about the "interpreter" having to be a person who can speak the language they are spiritually (or supernaturally) "interpreting".... they just understand, in their minds, the message that was uttered in some other language. They are not fluent in the language, any more than the person who "spoke" the message was.

I think you are letting yourself get so fanatical about trying to say tongues are not for today, that you are spouting illogical and meaningless things as some sort of proof of something.

Let Him answer. What was said? Tongues were ALWAYS in a known language. I would want one word of truth rather than 100 Billion words of babble.

 

[gr8grace3]

You're being a little silly, aren't you? If he did not know the language, and it was interpreted so he could know what was said, how is he supposed to know what language it was? The Bible says nothing whatsoever about the "interpreter" having to be a person who can speak the language they are spiritually (or supernaturally) "interpreting".... they just understand, in their minds, the message that was uttered in some other language. They are not fluent in the language, any more than the person who "spoke" the message was.

I think you are letting yourself get so fanatical about trying to say tongues are not for today, that you are spouting illogical and meaningless things as some sort of proof of something.

And study this a bit. The interpreter knew the language. And it was always revealed as to what the message was. It was not hidden. tongues were for unbelievers.....the Jew. Uneducated gentiles were speaking Jewish. Tongues ceased in 70 AD when the Jews lost their client nation status.

 

[Blake]

What is your justification for 1 Corinthians 14:2?

 

[gr8grace3]

What is your justification for 1 Corinthians 14:2?

What was the message in your first experience with tongues?

We had a fella claim that he spoke tongues. He spoke it and we just "happened" to have another fella from Africa that spoke the language. The message was "curse Jesus Christ." over and over again. This is my experience with tongues.

 

[Brother Mike]

And study this a bit. The interpreter knew the language. And it was always revealed as to what the message was. It was not hidden. tongues were for unbelievers.....the Jew. Uneducated gentiles were speaking Jewish. Tongues ceased in 70 AD when the Jews lost their client nation status.

What scripture is that. Tongues ceased? OH, yea, Paul said tongues shall pass away with knowledge in 70ad, ah, that's what Paul meant and the Word came which is perfect, so no need for tongues.

That's the unbelief understanding of that passage,and not what Paul said.

Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(1Co 14:12-14)

So, when we pray in tongues, our spirit man prays. I suppose our spirit man don't need to pray anymore. God just removed that ability because our spirit man is not all that important.

Less tools we have for God, the less cluttered things are. Makes sense to me.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
(Rom 8:26-27)

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(1Co 14:15)

We are suppose to do two kinds of praying here. With our understanding, and in the spirit.

Just because 70ad Rolls around was no indication we understand everything about all situations. If we don't know what to pray, or what to pray for, we pray in tongues, because surface problems don't show the root of the trouble, and the Spirit knows what needs prayed for according to the Will of God.

So to dismiss our helper, the Holy Spirit when it comes to prayer is not a good idea. Why ignore the spiritual and just pray according to sight? It does not even make sense.

Tongues is today, the Holy Spirit the same today, and the gifts all here the same today. Religion won't remove them, and are a help to all that will believe.

I find it hard to believe that someone on earth has reached that place where they no longer need help in prayer, and know all things.

 

[gr8grace3]

What scripture is that. Tongues ceased? OH, yea, Paul said tongues shall pass away with knowledge in 70ad, ah, that's what Paul meant and the Word came which is perfect, so no need for tongues.

That's the unbelief understanding of that passage,and not what Paul said.

Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
(1Co 14:12-14)

So, when we pray in tongues, our spirit man prays. I suppose our spirit man don't need to pray anymore. God just removed that ability because our spirit man is not all that important.

Less tools we have for God, the less cluttered things are. Makes sense to me.

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
(Rom 8:26-27)

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
(1Co 14:15)

We are suppose to do two kinds of praying here. With our understanding, and in the spirit.

Just because 70ad Rolls around was no indication we understand everything about all situations. If we don't know what to pray, or what to pray for, we pray in tongues, because surface problems don't show the root of the trouble, and the Spirit knows what needs prayed for according to the Will of God.

So to dismiss our helper, the Holy Spirit when it comes to prayer is not a good idea. Why ignore the spiritual and just pray according to sight? It does not even make sense.

Tongues is today, the Holy Spirit the same today, and the gifts all here the same today. Religion won't remove them, and are a help to all that will believe.

I find it hard to believe that someone on earth has reached that place where they no longer need help in prayer, and know all things.

Do you believe that we can lose salvation and that it is More than faith alone in Christ alone?

 

[Brother Mike]

Do you believe that we can lose salvation and that it is More than faith alone in Christ alone?

Well, this should be in that "OTHER" thread, but I don't believe anyone can just loose their salvation. Even taking a 20 year sin break with no thought of following God would not make them "unsaved" I don't believe they get the reward they should have gotten, and were robbed of what could have come to them, but they don't end up in hell either.

I know everyone here is sort of against your position, I have been in the same boat with a thread full of folks that believe like you. What we are saying to you is right though about healing and tongues. Nobody is trying to be misleading here.

Healing is to help someone, not prove anything or prove the Word. In Jesus day, they knew the Healing was real to the point of hanging out to see if Jesus would heal someone on the wrong day, or heal the wrong person. Who He said he was, was in question.

Healing was not to get the church started or prove the Word of God. It was used to heal the people all their lifetime bondage to Satan, and being oppressed of the devil.

People that have your belief use illogical arguments. Look at what your saying and what you have heard. Of course the devil wants nobody to walk in the power of God, or believe in healing or tongues. He has no recourse against those things.

That is part of the reason why I don't think The Gift of healing is part of christiandom after 96 AD. We have the living and completed word, Men do not need to heal today to "prove" the living word. The Word is alive and powerful, the word can stand alone.

First, men never were healed to prove the Word. If hearing the Word got them healed, like in Paul's case the man listening heard and had faith after to be healed then the same Word that caused the healing proved itself true then and would continue to do so today. The healing part, did not come before the Hearing the Word part.

Another thing is the Word tries us, not we get healed to prove the Word. God has never changed this order, and even the Word tried Joseph who stood on the promise of a dream the Word of God to him.

consider what you believe here. I have a cd series free to listen to on God's will to heal if your interested. Lot better than reading pages of forums at your pace and leisure.

Blessings.

 

[Gary]

What was the message in your first experience with tongues?

We had a fella claim that he spoke tongues. He spoke it and we just "happened" to have another fella from Africa that spoke the language. The message was "curse Jesus Christ." over and over again. This is my experience with tongues.

So the devil convinced you that the gift of tongues is nonexistent.

That's too bad.
.

 

[Blake]

Let Him answer. What was said? Tongues were ALWAYS in a known language. I would want one word of truth rather than 100 Billion words of babble.

I answered this on post #62.

I've been seeking His face ever since...

We had a fella claim that he spoke tongues. He spoke it and we just "happened" to have another fella from Africa that spoke the language. The message was "curse Jesus Christ." over and over again. This is my experience with tongues.

Evil is not very creative. It can only mock what is good.

 

[KevinK]

Well, then I will just assume that you already know the answer. Saves me having to go into a lot of explanation.

Fine with me. I do already know the answer. One person found one thing that worked for one case of CFS. It will probably do nothing for another case, and in fact it will eventually stop working in your case, and you'll realize it never worked at all, it's just that you happened to try it during one of CFS's notorious temporary remissions that made it seem like the "cure de jour" was working.

I've lost track of how many people have approached me with the absolute cure for CFS. I've lost track with how many times I tried things, only to be disappointed yet again.

By the way, my CFS was caused by a Traumatic Brain Injury. Nothing permanent can be done for the CFS unless the TBI is first cured. I think medical science is still a good ways off from fixing broken brains.

You're still in my prayers, though Willie.

EDIT: Also, sorry for the "snarky" posts. I am coming off a 48-hour CFS "binge" and as you probably already know, will not win any diplomacy awards for the next few hours. And I really have heard uncountable cures for CFS, all of which shared one common trait- none of them worked.

 

[KevinK]

Where is this found in the scriptures?
.

OK, sorry this took so long. CFS attack for past couple days.

I actually thought this was well-known and did not need Scriptural support. My mistake. The contention that Satan can heal comes from personal experience. It may or may not be in Scripture; I don't really know, and don't need to personally look. I have seen physical healings provided to people who went on to be followers of Darkness.

I only say this as a warning as we bear through the final days, and Satan ramps up the level of deceipt. I would not want any of you to fall to this deception; I don't care what you think of me personally, just to be careful as the miracle-and-wonder count spikes up. Many will be swayed by the powers of the Anti-christ. He will perform miracles, give healings, and bring (temporary) peace to a warring Mideast. All good things from a very bad person.

I can give one example that is well-known: the infamous Toronto Blessing. Although healings supposedly resulted from the event, I can't seem to recognize the bizarre incident as anything but a massive demonic possession. I just don't think the real God would make people act that way.

 

[Gary]

OK, sorry this took so long. CFS attack for past couple days.

I actually thought this was well-known and did not need Scriptural support. My mistake. The contention that Satan can heal comes from personal experience. It may or may not be in Scripture; I don't really know, and don't need to personally look. I have seen physical healings provided to people who went on to be followers of Darkness.

What sort of healings were provided and who was doing the healing?

 

[KevinK]

What sort of healings were provided and who was doing the healing?

Too many people and different types of experiences to get into detail. I've seen a lot over the past 38 years. Unless you're asking about a specific modality.

 

[Gary]

Too many people and different types of experiences to get into detail. I've seen a lot over the past 38 years. Unless you're asking about a specific modality.

Just give a couple of examples of the types of healings you're referring to. (ie. cured of cancer, the lame walk, the blind see etc.) Something that is without a doubt, miraculous.