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Heaven?

The point is that there is no Scriptrue that teaches Christians go to heaven when they die. The Scriptures teach that man will dwell on earth.
I believe you ask for scripture? and there are many more but i think any honest person has seen enough?:wave
 
Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion regarding what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps†until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary†heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord†(2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.†At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire†(Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary†heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location†of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

ref: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html
 
Do you understand what a proof text is? It's a text while true in it's context, is taken out of that context and used to attempt to prove a point. "NOT ONE" of the texts you've presented says that a Christian goes to heaven when he dies. Instead, you've accpeted that idea and have taken texts that speak of heaven and tried to use them to prove your point. That is proof texting. Now, I asked why Christians say they go to heaven when they die and you said you read it somewhere. I asked you to point that out, as of yet, you have not pointed out "ANY" text that says a Christian goes to heaven when he dies. I can alone assume that either you didn't read it but rather inferred it, or you read it in a work other than the Scriptures.
If you wanted to start a conversation about what it means "when heaven comes to earth" i would have listened to your points! but of course you didnt! and if words mean anything the bible is full of scripture that promise heaven to those that believe in Christ! I dont think any real "believers" will buy your "context", we have already seen that!:D
 
Is there an afterlife?

The book of Job asks the question about an afterlife very simply: “If a man dies, will he live again?†(Job 14:14). Asking the question is easy, but the difficult part is finding someone to answer the question with authority and experience. “Death and taxes†have said to be the two universals that everyone living can expect to deal with. But while everyone is handled somewhat differently by government taxation, death is the great equalizer that treats everyone the same.

Because of this, it’s not uncommon for people to be afraid of death. The ancient philosopher Epicurus (341–270 BC) recognized that the fear of death was present in everybody and therefore he sought a way to remove that fear. Epicurus taught that humanity not need fear death because human beings are nothing more than a composition of atoms which at death simply disperse and that is the end of things. Epicurus didn’t believe there were any gods to fear or anything to face once a person breathed their last. His teaching of maximum pleasure in this life with minimum pain and suffering dictated that everything ends when death occurred.

One of the groups the Apostle Paul encountered in his trip to Athens were the Epicureans, who listened to Paul’s Mars Hill address up until he mentioned the resurrection of Jesus and then abruptly ended the discussion (Acts 17:32). They had been bathed in their teacher’s philosophy and likely knew well the statement made by Apollos the Epicurean who said during the founding of the Areopagus where Paul was speaking, “When the dust has soaked up a person’s blood, once he is dead, there is no resurrection."

But after thousands of years since that time, the fear of death remains fixed in many people. The book of Job describes death as the “king of terrors†(Job 18:14). This fact is visible in the movie “The Bucket List†where the character played by Jack Nicholson, trying to come to grips with dying, says: “We all want to go on forever, don’t we? We fear the unknown. Everybody goes to that wall, yet nobody knows what’s on the other side. That’s why we fear death.â€

But one person has gone to that wall, gone through to the other side, and come back to tell us what to expect. He alone possesses the authority and knowledge to tell everyone the truth about the afterlife.

The Expert on the Afterlife
From a historical perspective, no historical scholar disputes the life of Jesus of Nazareth. There is no debate about His teachings or the fact that He reportedly did miraculous things, and there is universal agreement that He was put to death by crucifixion under the Roman prefect Pontius Pilate. Jesus went to the wall of death and through to the other side.

The resurrection puts Jesus in a place of being the sole authority and witness able to answer the question, “Is there an afterlife?†And what does He have to say? Christ makes three basic statements about the subject of life after death:

1. There is an afterlife.
2. When a person dies, there are two different eternities to which he/she will go.
3. There is a way to ensure a positive experience after death.

First, Christ most certainly affirms there is an afterlife in a number of biblical passages. For example, in an encounter with the Sadducees who denied the teaching of resurrection, Christ rebuked them by saying, “Regarding the fact that the dead rise again, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead, but of the living; you are greatly mistaken" (Mark 12:26-27). Jesus clearly told them that those who have died centuries before are very much alive with God at that moment.

In another passage, Jesus comforts His disciples (and us) by telling them specifically that they can look forward to being with Him in Heaven: “Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way where I am going†(John 14:1-4).

The Afterlife - Two Eternal Destinies
Jesus also speaks authoritatively about what types of destinies await every person that dies: one with God and one without God. In Luke’s account of the rich man and Lazarus, Jesus says, “Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom" (Luke 16:22–23). One aspect of the story worth noting is that there is no intermediate state for those who die; they go directly to their eternal destiny. As the writer of Hebrews says, “It is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" (Hebrews 9:27).

Jesus speaks about the two final destinies again when He is confronted by the religious leaders in John: “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment†(John 5:25-29). Christ restates the matter very plainly in Matthew when He says, “These [unbelievers] will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life†(Matthew 25:46).

The Afterlife - What Determines Our Eternal Destination?
Jesus also is clear on what determines each person’s eternal destination—whether they have faith in God and what they do with respect to Christ. The book of John contains many statements made by Jesus on this subject, with perhaps the most famous being these: “As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" (John 3:14-18).

For those who repent and receive Christ as their Savior and Lord, the afterlife will consist of an eternity spent with God. But for those who reject Christ, their destiny will be spent away from God’s presence. Jesus contrasts these two destinies in the end of the Sermon on the Mount: “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it†(Matthew 7:13-14).

The Afterlife - Conclusions
Speaking about life after death, G. B. Hardy, a Canadian Scientist, once said, "I have only two questions to ask. One, has anyone ever defeated death? Two, did he make a way for me to do it also?" The answer to both of Hardy’s questions is “yes.†One Person has both defeated death and provided a way for everyone who puts their trust in Him to overcome it as well. Epicurus may have believed that everyone fears death, but the truth is no one who trusts in Christ needs to be afraid. Rejoicing in this fact, the Apostle Paul wrote, “When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory.’ ‘Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?’" (1 Corinthians 15:54–55).

ref: http://www.gotquestions.org/afterlife.html
 
I believe you ask for scripture? and there are many more but i think any honest person has seen enough?:wave

The honest person will put aside their theology and evaluate the evidence.

Please take note of the post by Danus. That is how to respond. He has given an explanation along with the Scriptures letting one know and understand how he understands them.

Simply posting a bunch of Scriptures with no context or input does nothing to elaborate on the issue.
 
If you wanted to start a conversation about what it means "when heaven comes to earth" i would have listened to your points! but of course you didnt! and if words mean anything the bible is full of scripture that promise heaven to those that believe in Christ! I dont think any real "believers" will buy your "context", we have already seen that!:D

What I wanted to address was the question which I asked. You keep insisting that there is Scripture that says a Christian goes to heaven yet you've provided "NONE".

I am interesed in Evidence NOT inference.
 
Within the Christian faith, there is a significant amount of confusion regarding what happens after death. Some hold that after death, everyone “sleeps†until the final judgment, after which everyone will be sent to heaven or hell. Others believe that at the moment of death, people are instantly judged and sent to their eternal destinations. Still others claim that when people die, their souls/spirits are sent to a “temporary†heaven or hell, to await the final resurrection, the final judgment, and then the finality of their eternal destination. So, what exactly does the Bible say happens after death?

First, for the believer in Jesus Christ, the Bible tells us that after death believers’ souls/spirits are taken to heaven, because their sins are forgiven by having received Christ as Savior (John 3:16, 18, 36). For believers, death is to be “away from the body and at home with the Lord†(2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). However, passages such as 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 describe believers being resurrected and given glorified bodies. If believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, what is the purpose of this resurrection? It seems that while the souls/spirits of believers go to be with Christ immediately after death, the physical body remains in the grave “sleeping.†At the resurrection of believers, the physical body is resurrected, glorified, and then reunited with the soul/spirit. This reunited and glorified body-soul-spirit will be the possession of believers for eternity in the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21-22).

Second, for those who do not receive Jesus Christ as Savior, death means everlasting punishment. However, similar to the destiny of believers, unbelievers also seem to be sent immediately to a temporary holding place, to await their final resurrection, judgment, and eternal destiny. Luke 16:22-23 describes a rich man being tormented immediately after death. Revelation 20:11-15 describes all the unbelieving dead being resurrected, judged at the great white throne, and then being cast into the lake of fire. Unbelievers, then, are not sent to hell (the lake of fire) immediately after death, but rather are in a temporary realm of judgment and condemnation. However, even though unbelievers are not instantly sent to the lake of fire, their immediate fate after death is not a pleasant one. The rich man cried out, “I am in agony in this fire†(Luke 16:24).

Therefore, after death, a person resides in a “temporary†heaven or hell. After this temporary realm, at the final resurrection, a person’s eternal destiny will not change. The precise “location†of that eternal destiny is what changes. Believers will ultimately be granted entrance into the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Unbelievers will ultimately be sent to the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not they had trusted Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Matthew 25:46; John 3:36).

ref: http://www.gotquestions.org/what-happens-death.html

Thanks for this, but I was addressing the issue of heaven spcifically.
 
.... and there are many more but i think any honest person has seen enough?:wave


Looks pretty plain to me. :yes

2 Corinthians 5:8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far
 
The honest person will put aside their theology and evaluate the evidence.

Please take note of the post by Danus. That is how to respond. He has given an explanation along with the Scriptures letting one know and understand how he understands them.

Simply posting a bunch of Scriptures with no context or input does nothing to elaborate on the issue.
Simple the Lord Jesus Christ, The King of Glory! is seated at the Right hand of the Father in HEAVEN. HE SAID that Where He is I will be also! The Aposle Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! I dont care what any man thinks or says, if an angel told me i would not be with Him? I would rebuke him in Jesus name!:yes
Now i know at some point that "heaven" will be brought to earth! I dont see it yet do you? Therefore it and Christ are still in the 3rd heaven. Now you can pretend you understand heaven, and "spiritual" things if you want? I think you may be talking about things you dont understand.:chin
 
Thanks for this, but I was addressing the issue of heaven spcifically.


Well, I'm going to ask that you state your point please. State what it is that you believe in terms of what the bible says of the after life or, what you call heaven.
 
Sometimes when a question gets asked or a comment is made it attracts a certain type of hornet, wasp or bee that will sting you and pursue you with taunts and venom until you are covered in bile and bruises. There is a lot of spiritual wasps. It makes you feel like the whole experience should be avoided. Our God is great. He has such humor in making us like the animals. :yes
 
Looks pretty plain to me. :yes

2 Corinthians 5:8We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Philippians 1:23I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far
I love that chain pic! "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free":yes
 
Well, I'm going to ask that you state your point please.

I stated my point in that the kings and priests are to reign on the earth (Rev 5:10). Who do they reign over if everyone is either in heaven or hell?
 
Simple the Lord Jesus Christ, The King of Glory! is seated at the Right hand of the Father in HEAVEN. HE SAID that Where He is I will be also! The Aposle Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! I dont care what any man thinks or says, if an angel told me i would not be with Him? I would rebuke him in Jesus name!:yes
Now i know at some point that "heaven" will be brought to earth! I dont see it yet do you? Therefore it and Christ are still in the 3rd heaven. Now you can pretend you understand heaven, and "spiritual" things if you want? I think you may be talking about things you dont understand.:chin

How far will your rebuke go? Jesus Himself said, the meek shall inherit the earth. He didn't say heaven.
 
Well, I'm going to ask that you state your point please. State what it is that you believe in terms of what the bible says of the after life or, what you call heaven.

My point was simply my question. Why do Christians teach that they go to heaven when they die. That idea is not stated in the Scriptures. Many have inferred that by imposing the idea on the text rather than letting the Scriptures speak for themselves. I think it's becoming clear from the mulititude of passages posted by Mitspa. Of all the passages he's posted so far not one of them states that a Christian goes to heaven when he dies.
 
Simple the Lord Jesus Christ, The King of Glory! is seated at the Right hand of the Father in HEAVEN. HE SAID that Where He is I will be also! The Aposle Paul said to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord! I dont care what any man thinks or says, if an angel told me i would not be with Him? I would rebuke him in Jesus name!:yes
Now i know at some point that "heaven" will be brought to earth! I dont see it yet do you? Therefore it and Christ are still in the 3rd heaven. Now you can pretend you understand heaven, and "spiritual" things if you want? I think you may be talking about things you dont understand.:chin

This is a perfect example of inference. It is not stated that a Christians goes to heaven when he dies. You've taken one verse that says Christ is seated at the right heand of God and combined that with another were Paul said, I am willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord and drawn an inference.

However, there are two problems here. One is that Paul "didn't" say to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. He said, "I am willing rather" to be absent from the body "and" present with the Lord. There's a big difference.

The other problem is an assumption that being with the Lord requires one to be in heaven. However, when we look at David's words we find that that is not necessary.

7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.(Psa 139:7-8 KJV)

One can be in Hades and be in the presence of the Lord.​
 
Psa 12:2

They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak.
Psa 12:3

The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things:
Psa 12:4

Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us?




 
It is written; the wicked flee, but the Righteous are as bold as lions!

That doesn't address the issue. When Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth He was quoting David in Psalm 37.

KJV Psalm 37:1 <A Psalm of David.> Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. {verily: Heb. in truth, or, stableness}
4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass. {Commit...: Heb. Roll thy way upon}
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass. {Rest in: Heb. Be silent to}
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth. {plotteth: or, practiseth}
13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation. {such...: Heb. the upright of way}
15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away. {the fat: Heb. the preciousness}
21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. {ordered: or, established}
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed. {ever: Heb. all the day}
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide. {steps: or, goings}
32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. {a green...: or, a green tree that groweth in his own soil}
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.​
40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him. (Psa 37:1-40 KJV)

That's what Jesus was quoting. Notice there is "NO" inference. This is stragiht foreward and stated plainly, the righteous shall inherit the land and dwell in it forever.
 
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