Hello from the frozen tundra

[Tiamat777]

Hi all, Just looking to introduce myself and have some friendly discussions is all. I'm not Christian but I have some Christian friends and they're very nice Take care

 

[Mike]

Welcome to CFnet!

FYI, you don't have to be a Christian to be a member here, but I won't allow Packer fans. Let's employ the old "don't ask/don't tell", cause this here is Lion Nation!

 

[Tiamat777]

Welcome to CFnet!

FYI, you don't have to be a Christian to be a member here, but I won't allow Packer fans. Let's employ the old "don't ask/don't tell", cause this here is Lion Nation!

If you don't allow packer fans in here i'm good to go. Go vikings!

 

[fishbreath]

Welcome to CFnet! ... ummm... Go Ottawa Rough Riders!!

 

[Claudya]

I don't even know what kind of game you are talking about. Greetings from clueless Europe.
Welcome to CF.net.

 

[Knotical]

Welcome to CFnet!

FYI, you don't have to be a Christian to be a member here, but I won't allow Packer fans. Let's employ the old "don't ask/don't tell", cause this here is Lion Nation!

Oh really? Then how did I make in on this board, much less as a moderator?

 

[Tiamat777]

Welcome to CFnet!

FYI, you don't have to be a Christian to be a member here, but I won't allow Packer fans. Let's employ the old "don't ask/don't tell", cause this here is Lion Nation!

Oh really? Then how did I make in on this board, much less as a moderator?

Oh snap.

 

[Knotical]

Welcome to CFnet, Tiamat777. Do you hail from the Lacrosse area?

 

[Tiamat777]

Welcome to CFnet, Tiamat777. Do you hail from the Lacrosse area?

Nah, from the UP actually

 

[Tiamat777]

Just some background on me....

I am a magician. (LHP (left hand path)). I evoke what you guys would consider "demons" (which is just a mistranslation of greek daemon which is 'spirit') from the Goetia. They are actually quite personable....I mean come on, they teach you about botany. I started out with golden dawn and eastern alchemy (tai chi, and now into qi gong). I do divination (Thoth tarot, scrying). I know that this would make this community uncomfortable, but you have to realize that your GOD judges me, and you do not speak for him.

I do Qabalistic pathworking and explore Qippoth energies for the most part.

I am really into the entire Christian philosophy. It seems very pure. If I were to be given a label you would call me a Gnostic Luciferion. A Satanist. I have opened my mind beyond what most people are able to. Satan is an archetype that has been regurgitated throughout every oppressive religion that has ever existed, and not so much a phantom that is waiting to tempt you.

Pondering the mind of GOD is the equivalent to an ant perceiving the mind of a human. There is much more to the universe than what you have been told. I am not here to proselytize of course, just want to make some friends is all.

It would certainly be nice to clear up the essence-less and materialistic filth that is spread in the name of Satanism.

My only intention is for peace for all of humankind.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Tiamat777!

Are you from the UP of Michigan? Some springtime weather we've been having eh? lol!

From your screen name I see you are familiar with Tiamat. Most have no clue. Have you read any of the Ancient Near Eastern texts with her in it? What a fascinating creation story huh? If I can ask, what do you find so alluring with Tiamat that you would sport her name? I mean, what part of Tiamat resonates with you?

Lastly, please forgive me with my bias. When I hear that one is into some of the things you are into I cringe. That being said, I do enjoy reading Jewish literature and as your aware, they have an entirely different view on the Satan than main stream Christianity does and along with that, one could place Tiamat in the Garden (Serpent). One could almost say that the creation account was an apologetic response to the Tiamat creation account.

I am curious on your thoughts, especially since nobody knows about Tiamat and her relation to the Biblical texts.

Thanks!

Grace and Peace.

 

[Tiamat777]

Hi Tiamat777!

Are you from the UP of Michigan? Some springtime weather we've been having eh? lol!

From your screen name I see you are familiar with Tiamat. Most have no clue. Have you read any of the Ancient Near Eastern texts with her in it? What a fascinating creation story huh? If I can ask, what do you find so alluring with Tiamat that you would sport her name? I mean, what part of Tiamat resonates with you?

Lastly, please forgive me with my bias. When I hear that one is into some of the things you are into I cringe. That being said, I do enjoy reading Jewish literature and as your aware, they have an entirely different view on the Satan than main stream Christianity does and along with that, one could place Tiamat in the Garden (Serpent). One could almost say that the creation account was an apologetic response to the Tiamat creation account.

I am curious on your thoughts, especially since nobody knows about Tiamat and her relation to the Biblical texts.

Thanks!

Grace and Peace.

Oh I completely understand your reaction, especially on a forum like this. The reason why I came to this forum, strangely enough, is because I know that I wouldn't be judged here lest your religion would make you hypocrites, and yet at the same time you are a spiritual community that accepts the metaphysical. I am also delighted that you have heard of Tiamat Your thoughts on the creation account are a nice breath of fresh air.

Before I discuss Tiamat, I would like to discuss what in my tradition is the nature of Chaos versus Creation (the cosmos, the universe). What I am about to say is my tradition so don't take it to heart. "Let there be light". Darkness was our origin before light, and this materialistic world (creation itself) has trapped our consciousness. I meditate, so I know what it's like when the inner voice is put aside and I can discern my true self from the person that this world has made me into. A discussion about cognition is pretty deep so I won't get into that. Creation is stagnant, while chaos simultaneously creates and destroys and has infinite possibilities.

Cosmos is casual, which means it is bound by the law of cause and effect (Karma), while Chaos is completely Acasual and free from all the limitations of casual law. Chaos is the eternal and lawless becoming and is therefore an active and dynamic form of eternity. Chaos was, is and becomes all and nothing at one and the same time. It is the only true freedom and your essence (true self) beyond all the confining structures of the cosmic existence. The letter teth in ancient Hebrew can be likened to leviathan, an awakened ouroboros that has let go of its own tail and as a result, broken the closed circle and made the ten into eleven.

The dragon is an ancient symbol of Chaos, which is represented by the Dragon Mother Tiamat.

I am not out to proselytize or anything like that so please don't take it that way. This is a tradition within current 218 and I am in no way trying to pawn this off on you guys or burden you with my journey. I am here to appreciate this community.

God Bless

Edit: Yeah the UP from Michigan. The weather is awful!

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you for your kind response. Just a note, we are called to have judgment and the Bible is clear on what things to stay away from, such as divination etc, thus some of the cringing. We are also told that the measure we judge, will be the measure we are judged. Simply put, we all have to potential to be hypocrites and at times, we all are hypocrites.

The Story of Tiamat is a story of chaos where the gods are all angry and Murdoch kills Tiamat (Although she never truly dies), mixes her blood with the dirt from the earth and creates man to serve the gods in fear. Thus, humanity is oppressed by the gods for their favor and Tiamat becomes the mother of what we understand as demons and serpents. Have you read the original translations of the Ancient Near Eastern accounts? I find them utterly fascinating. Ahh, Tiamat, nothing like a woman scorn lol!

As far as light and darkness and how it relates to chaos, I know that there are many different Qabalistic views, but the Chabadist view in a nutshell views light as action (doing good) and darkness as not doing anything, thus chaos is created in the void. In other words, chaos exists until light comes into the world and dispels the chaos even though darkness is non existent. In other words, darkness isn't created because darkness is the absence of light. However, if you want to "create" darkness, one takes his light away.

I like to use Leviticus 23 as an example. A section in Levticus 23 states that when a farmer harvests his fields, he is to leave the corner of his field to feed the widow, the poor and the stranger in the land. This is a provision for the owner to do something that helps another human being, so it's a practical example. If the farmer fails to leave the corners of his fields at harvest time, what he has done was left a void in a means for providing assistance. Hunger is real, but what is hunger other than a lack of food ? In other words, hunger is akin to darkness and it is created by the absense of something else, thus darkness is really nothingness. If you want to create hunger, you don't provide. In other words, darkness is nothingness and if you want to create darkness, then withhold doing good becasue darkness is the absense of light. Darkness is chaos, but light provides and overcomes darkness. It's just the nature of light. Looking at the biblical account of creation, what we see is order out of chaos. There is much more that I could write and in my haste, I do hope I've articulated this in a manner that is comprehensible. lol

Anyway, I'm glad the weather is finally breaking! Even if it is raining!

 

[Tiamat777]

Ah yes the cringing, try not to take this the wrong way but I am pretty much not too concerned on what the Bible is and isn't clear on what we should do, because it has no authority over me, and I worship no God. Although, they did do scrying (a form of divination) in the Bible in Genesis 44:5 "Isn't this the cup my master drinks from and also uses for divination?" I needed to learn ancient Hebrew when I was becoming a Qabalahist, and I can tell you the translations are WAY off. The original Hebrew translations have more of a Gnostic tone to them than anything.

Anyway, I have not heard of the Chabadist view of light and darkness, what a wonderful tradition that must be! Your views on darkness and light are very articulate and I can see how you came to those conclusions. Regarding Chaos though, all possibilities exist within it and among those possibilities is the birth of cosmic existence. The chaos that surrounds cosmos is anti-cosmic, because its pan-dimensional and formless power acts as the antithesis to the formed, limiting structures of the finite order of the cosmos. In my personal jouney inwards, I've discovered this to be my origin. I have explored both the day side of the tree and the Qlippoth, and those shells have gnosis. The tree of life structure comes from the book of Kings actually (Kings 1:7)...the Sephiroth are likened to pomegranates. It's hard to relate what I've experienced in my journey, as it takes years of discipline to really be able to scry the tree of life.

There are a lot of different legends regarding Tiamat, the one you reference I believe is the ancient Sumerian version if my memory serves me correctly?

 

[stovebolts]

Here is a thread I did a long time ago. It has the full story of Tiamat and Murduk.

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=20251

..

Accadian Myths, Tablet 1.

When her labor of creation was ended, against her children Tiamat began preparations of war. This was the evil she did to requite Apsu, this was the evil news that came to Ea.
When he had learned how matters lay he was stunned, he sat in black silence till rage had worked itself out; then he remembered the gods before him. He went to Anshar, his father's father, and told him how Tiamat plotted,
'She loathes us, father, our mother Tiamat has raised up that Company, she rages in turbulence and all have joined her, all those gods whom you begot,
'Together they jostle the ranks to march with Tiamat, day and night furiously they plot, the growling roaring rout, ready for battle, while the Old Hag, the first mother, mothers a new brood.
'She has loosed the irresistible missile, spawned enormous serpents with cutting fangs, chock-full of venom instead of blood, snarling dragons wearing their glory like gods. (Whoever sees this thing receives the shock of death, for when they heave those bodies up they never turn them back.)
'She has made the Worm,
the Dragon
the Female Monster
the Great Lion
the Mad Dog
the Man Scorpion
the Howling Storm
Kulili
Kusariqu
'There is no pity in their weapons, they do not flinch from battle for her law is binding, irrevocable.
'Eleven such monsters she has made but she took from among the gods the clumsy laborer
KINGU
one of the first generation to be her Captain, War-leader, Assembly-leader, ordering the supplies, leading the van to battle
SUPREME COMMANDER OF THE WARS

When Marduk hears the words of the gods,
His heart prompts (him) to fashion artful works.
Opening his mouth, he addresses Ea
To impart the plan he had conceived in his heart:
"Blood I will mass and cause bones to be.
I will establish a savage, 'man' shall be his name.
Verily, savage-man I will create.
He shall be charged with the service of the gods That they might be at ease!
The ways of the gods I will artfully alter.
Though alike revered, into two (groups) they shall be divided." (10)
Ea answered him, speaking a word to him,
Giving him another plan for the relief of the gods:
"Let but one of their brothers be handed over;
He alone shall perish that mankind may be fashioned.

Actually, I was wrong! It wasn't Tiamat. Wow, can't believe I misunderstood that all these years!

.Who was it that contrived the uprising,
And made Tiamat rebel, and joined battle?
Let him be handed over who contrived the uprising.
His guilt I will make him bear. You shall dwell in peace!"
The Igigi, the great gods replied to him,
To Lugaldimmerankia, *11 counselor of the gods, their lord:
"It was Kingu who contrived the uprising,
And made Tiamat rebel, and joined battle." (30)
They bound him, holding him before Ea.
They imposed on him his guilt and severed his blood (vessels).
Out of his blood they fashioned mankind.
He *12 imposed the service and let free the gods.
After Ea, the wise, had created mankind,
Had imposed upon it the service of the gods-
That work was beyond comprehension;
As artfully planned by Marduk, did Nudimmud create it-
Marduk, the king of the gods divided
All the Anunnaki above and below..

 

[Tiamat777]

Ah cool! Yeah I remember this creation story. I've read it before and what an interesting story it is indeed!

By the way mods, don't worry about me I'll keep my beliefs to myself and contained in my intro thread only.

 

[stovebolts]

Ah yes the cringing, try not to take this the wrong way but I am pretty much not too concerned on what the Bible is and isn't clear on what we should do, because it has no authority over me, and I worship no God. Although, they did do scrying (a form of divination) in the Bible in Genesis 44:5 "Isn't this the cup my master drinks from and also uses for divination?" I needed to learn ancient Hebrew when I was becoming a Qabalahist, and I can tell you the translations are WAY off. The original Hebrew translations have more of a Gnostic tone to them than anything.

Anyway, I have not heard of the Chabadist view of light and darkness, what a wonderful tradition that must be! Your views on darkness and light are very articulate and I can see how you came to those conclusions. Regarding Chaos though, all possibilities exist within it and among those possibilities is the birth of cosmic existence. The chaos that surrounds cosmos is anti-cosmic, because its pan-dimensional and formless power acts as the antithesis to the formed, limiting structures of the finite order of the cosmos. In my personal jouney inwards, I've discovered this to be my origin. I have explored both the day side of the tree and the Qlippoth, and those shells have gnosis. The tree of life structure comes from the book of Kings actually (Kings 1:7)...the Sephiroth are likened to pomegranates. It's hard to relate what I've experienced in my journey, as it takes years of discipline to really be able to scry the tree of life.

There are a lot of different legends regarding Tiamat, the one you reference I believe is the ancient Sumerian version if my memory serves me correctly?

I've read some items for a Chabadist perspective and they state it relates to the soul. A very interesting read and I'll not pretend to fully understand it.

You may just enjoy thisarticle.

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2776/jewish/The-Seven-Species-and-Seven-Attributes.htm

No worries on how you view the Bible, I'm just up for some friendly and thought provoking conversation. I can't bind you to my belief anymore than you can bind me to yours. However, I think there are areas that we can find mutual ground and at the very least, we can learn from each other.

Grace and peace.

 

[stovebolts]

Ah cool! Yeah I remember this creation story. I've read it before and what an interesting story it is indeed!

By the way mods, don't worry about me I'll keep my beliefs to myself and contained in my intro thread only.

Great! Then you can see the contrast between that account and the Genesis account.

In the Genesis account order is created out of chaos. Tiamat is depicted as the serpent who beguiles Eve and from the ANE account, we understand how the ANE viewed creation.

Revelation 12 puts it this way,

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I am still curious what it is about Tiamat that resonates so strongly with you that you would use her name to identify yourself.

Thanks!

 

[Tiamat777]

Thanks for the article, I'll check it out. I believe there's a lot we could learn from each other

We might have a lot more in common than you think. Humanity finding common ground with each other is one of my highest ideals, along with the discovery of our origin.

I look forward to further discussions with you

 

[Tiamat777]

I am still curious what it is about Tiamat that resonates so strongly with you that you would use her name to identify yourself.

Thanks!

Tiamat is an archetype of Chaos, and it fits well with Qlippoth energies which hold the key to gnosis.