Hello!

[Dorothy Mae]

Only God can judge the heart as that is not our place to do so as many only give lip service to the Lord, but yet none of His own. We can only know who are God's own by the fruits they bear.

That’s how I know. Your second sentence is the opposite of the first, by the way.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

It’s not that difficult to know what’s in a human heart but one needs a fair bit of observation. Of course if they write their thoughts it’s even easier, just need enough and a picture forms. It’s also called discernment.

 

[for_his_glory]

Your second sentence is the opposite of the first, by the way.

Of course it is as in two separate judgements.

Never judge a book by it's cover as you can miss so many good things inside.

 

[eddif]

Would be nice if this were explained instead of “just accept Jesus and you’re going to Heaven” so often preached.”

The problem with me is I can’t seem to do KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid

I wind up with an explanation that very few understand, because it is so long. Not that the steps are so many, but I get to explaining the steps and that confuses some.

To me it makes sense, but not everyone gets it. I have never made a written in stone description. People are different, and one may have trouble with one step ( due to background ) and others are driven crazy because they have that step, and want to get on to their important step.

Mississippi Redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

All those wheels within wheels and faces. Not a problem. Yes and no works, but when. Symbolism exists, but to undo the seals requires revelation.

The simple:
Repent
Receive Jesus for eternal life
Be baptized in the Holy Spirit that you may be a witness

You have to deal with: (all things)
The quickening spirit
Baptism of fire
Spiritual gifts
Offices in church
Brotherly love
Gods love
Shadows of things to come
Types
Suffering
Church discipline
Rod and Staff
Earth passing away ( form and reality)
More (lots more all according to calling)

eddif

 

[eddif]

Transformation / translation:
Words became light / creation.
Word became flesh ( Jesus )
Jesus became a Quickening Spirit that can be in us.

God’s word is a moving force, but that force gets the credit.
Jeremiah 17:9 kjv
9. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Oh but brother my heart is changed.
And my question is - how?

Jeremiah 17:10 kjv
10. I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

The heart supplies nourishment to the while body. The kidneys eliminate waste from the body. Both those functions are beyond our mental control. We are made in the image of God. Jesus sought the will of the Father.

Cardiac conduction system - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Jesus in us causing the change.
1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Christ in us works the change. The word is ( He will put his law in our heart and mind ). Jesus works in us the will and do.

At the resurrection we are eternally changed.

I know I repeat this over and over. I can only reflect light. Jesus is the light of the world. Jesus is the Quickening Spirit.

Word becomes flesh
Flesh is Jesus
Flesh (Jesus) dies and becomes Quickening Spirit.
He knocks on the door. At the last trump we are changed.

Changed from glory to glory.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Of course it is as in two separate judgements.

If a person wants to discern the heart of another, the judgement is one and the same.

God does know the heart and it’s usually pretty bad. If a man wants to know the degree of trust one can have for another person, knowing their heart is pretty important.

Never judge a book by it's cover as you can miss so many good things inside.

Good advise but I don’t. I judge a book by its inside. Takes longer but you are more likely to get to the truth.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Only God can judge the heart as that is not our place to do so as many only give lip service to the Lord, but yet none of His own.

You just judged other people in your second sentence. You seem to say things that are mutually exclusive. You say “never judge” and then proceed to judged other people “as giving lip service,”a conclusion you can have come only by judging them.

We can only know who are God's own by the fruits they bear.

Most people don’t have the discernment to know what those are.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


2Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Tim 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I have no doubt you are “born again” which was easy to determine, but the reams of cut and paste scripture didn’t establish that. There’s an atheist here who quotes scripture too. I quote scripture without looking it up and weave it into my texts naturally, which, by the way, is the method all of the writers of the Bible do.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Can you give us your explanation of what being Spiritually born again means? Just want to hear your take on this.

This is the chance for you to practice discernment. The problem with answering this question is it allows for a kind of laziness as well as doesn’t really get to the truth. If my words match up with the scale of measure you have in your mind, that is, I say the “right words”then you’ll relax in the assurance that I belong to the group, only by the words answering the direct question, nothing else. This is how people fool others and themselves…they know the “right” words to say.

Jesus said you’ll know a tree by its fruit, not from the noise the leaves make as the breeze whistles through them.

 

[eddif]

One would have to test this out to see if it is true. It’s a nice theory but I’m more inclined to think for_his_glory has a better idea.

I think the test has been done.

Galatians 5:17 kjv
17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

A gentile by history never had any guidance. If he became a proselyte he was under shadows of things to come.

At the gentile inclusion they had the law placed in their heart and mind. No background way to understand what was going on.

To become one new man requires study. Therein lies this battle of oppositions. Peter went to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles (by agreement).
Can I give an eloquent description of all this? No. Hard for some to understand? Yes.

eddif

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I think the test has been done.

Galatians 5:17 kjv
17. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

A gentile by history never had any guidance. If he became a proselyte he was under shadows of things to come.

At the gentile inclusion they had the law placed in their heart and mind. No background way to understand what was going on.

To become one new man requires study. Therein lies this battle of oppositions. Peter went to the Jews and Paul to the gentiles (by agreement).
Can I give an eloquent description of all this? No. Hard for some to understand? Yes.

eddif

It’s hard to understand incomplete communication. Let those who enjoy prose enjoy!

Wishing you well!

 

[eddif]

It’s hard to understand incomplete communication. Let those who enjoy prose enjoy!

Wishing you well!

I think knowing about Reality therapy, prose, poetry, pragmatism may be discussed, but the born again reality is the best pursuit.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Of course it is as in two separate judgements.

Never judge a book by it's cover as you can miss so many good things inside.

In the earthly kingdom there is still sometimes some deceit.
False brothers still exist. We can only see the cover and not the heart.

The whole passage verses have to be read.

Acts 8:20 kjv
20. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21.Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

The first look at the cover may look good, but the fruit of of inner thoughts can reveal a problem. Still fruit one inner one outer.

The Holy Spirits gifts.

eddif

 

[Randy]

Thanks for the welcome everyone.

I never can remember having accepted Christ or entering faith, I just always had it from my parents (until I was sixteen). Some Christians will tell me that that means I was never a Christian. I consider those Christians extremely arrogant to think they can say that.

But that doesn't make it a lie. This is a theology forum. Your testimony is that you never heard from the Lord. If you did have the witness no one could have snatched you away from the truth of that witness from above. God exists. Jesus lives.
How do you read?
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Again your witness denies ever having any witness from above. So in that state you were not in the faith nor did you belong to Jesus per the NT. You might be offended by that message but as I stated that doesn't make it a lie.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

In the earthly kingdom there is still sometimes some deceit.
False brothers still exist. We can only see the cover and not the heart.

Jesus taught us to see the heart. But first one has to willing to see one’s own heart. That is not at all pleasant. But having once done so with a refresher now and again, one comes to know, like Jesus did, what’s in the heart of others.

You know, one’s expressions also reveal a lot. I walked through an Andy Warhol exhibit once and after a few pictures, I told my companion, “this man despised people” and a few steps later a commentary on the man on the wall said point blank that he despised people. Nailed that one.

The whole passage verses have to be read.

Acts 8:20 kjv
20. But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
21.Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.

The first look at the cover may look good, but the fruit of of inner thoughts can reveal a problem. Still fruit one inner one outer.

The Holy Spirits gifts.

eddif

Notice that Peter saw his heart and was spot on.

 

[Edward]

How do you read?
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

That is correct. He's mostly just mixed up. Looking for truth. And since he had a lot of anti-Christianity "debunking" coming at him (because it the most dangerous religion, being the truth!), he decided to explore other religions, and being young and ignorant, took two lines from 6 different religions and made his own religion that suits his 17year old self. And he thinks, that no he don't have Jesus spirit inside him because Jesus don't exist. He's wrong of course, but he doesn't know he's wrong. Neither does he consider than even if he does not belong to Christ and Christ is not in him...that Christ is still standing next to him right now! Oh, Timmy. You got some 'splaining to do.

Psalm 139:
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.../

I suppose he is too young to even consider the long reaching ramifications of, the possibility, that he is wrong. What's going to happen "if" he is wrong? But being 17 and full of vinegar and ego who cares? I don't believe in you anyway!. I don't believe in you, but I'll fight you...there's some deep philosophy right there I tell ya'!

He hasn't gotten a real warm reception here like he wanted. Bt he isn't leaving either, am I right?! I think I am his least favorite member here. He promised to put me on ignore. I don't think he has yet. Lol. Now we have to ask the question, why is that? Well it's like I said. The Lord is standing right there beside him and he is talking to young man. The young man does not want to hear it. But he still hears a little here, a little there. and it stirs him within his very soul. Oh he wont admit it of course. He's 17! I'm starting to suspect that he can't leave. The Holy Spirit is on the job my friends! Quickening his spirit. Making him sit up and say, what? because something he heard had the ring of truth to it. So he's not leaving. He's not ready to admit whatever truths he has realized yet, but...if he hears enough truth ringing in his soul, he may just come around to repentance and his soul be saved. Today is not the Holy Spirit's day off either. :wink

 

[T. E. Smith]

That is correct. He's mostly just mixed up. Looking for truth. And since he had a lot of anti-Christianity "debunking" coming at him (because it the most dangerous religion, being the truth!), he decided to explore other religions, and being young and ignorant, took two lines from 6 different religions and made his own religion that suits his 17year old self. And he thinks, that no he don't have Jesus spirit inside him because Jesus don't exist. He's wrong of course, but he doesn't know he's wrong. Neither does he consider than even if he does not belong to Christ and Christ is not in him...that Christ is still standing next to him right now! Oh, Timmy. You got some 'splaining to do.

Psalm 139:
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.../

I suppose he is too young to even consider the long reaching ramifications of, the possibility, that he is wrong. What's going to happen "if" he is wrong? But being 17 and full of vinegar and ego who cares? I don't believe in you anyway!. I don't believe in you, but I'll fight you...there's some deep philosophy right there I tell ya'!

He hasn't gotten a real warm reception here like he wanted. Bt he isn't leaving either, am I right?! I think I am his least favorite member here. He promised to put me on ignore. I don't think he has yet. Lol. Now we have to ask the question, why is that? Well it's like I said. The Lord is standing right there beside him and he is talking to young man. The young man does not want to hear it. But he still hears a little here, a little there. and it stirs him within his very soul. Oh he wont admit it of course. He's 17! I'm starting to suspect that he can't leave. The Holy Spirit is on the job my friends! Quickening his spirit. Making him sit up and say, what? because something he heard had the ring of truth to it. So he's not leaving. He's not ready to admit whatever truths he has realized yet, but...if he hears enough truth ringing in his soul, he may just come around to repentance and his soul be saved. Today is not the Holy Spirit's day off either. :wink

Wow, doc, your analysis impresses me. Pray tell, what six religions are those?

 

[Edward]

Wow, doc, your analysis impresses me. Pray tell, what six religions are those?

Oh come on man, I was speaking a little loosely there. But betwwen satanism, Taoism, and a myriad of old philosphers, that's how it went down on paper. Plus, if you've read ell those ones then there's prolly another one in there too that you just havent mentioned yet.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Oh come on man, I was speaking a little loosely there. But betwwen satanism, Taoism, and a myriad of old philosphers, that's how it went down on paper. Plus, if you've read ell those ones then there's prolly another one in there too that you just havent mentioned yet.

Thanks for the clarificaion, doc. So yes I am a Satanist with an admiration for some of Taoism's aspects, but as for the "myriad of old philosophers" I assume you are referring to Lucretius, who had no particular religion.

Another one in there? No. I have read the Koran, Hindu books (kind of like huge, polytheistic versions of the Psalms), the Dharma (Buddhist), and the Analects of Confucius. But I don't subscribe to those religions.

 

[Edward]

Hey you can't call me doc unless you send the paycheck that goes with the title.. Until then, I'm just some random guy on the street who heard you heckling the Christians and heckeled back, lol.

I've never even played a doc on tv. Just my impressions after hearing enough of your words.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is the chance for you to practice discernment. The problem with answering this question is it allows for a kind of laziness as well as doesn’t really get to the truth. If my words match up with the scale of measure you have in your mind, that is, I say the “right words”then you’ll relax in the assurance that I belong to the group, only by the words answering the direct question, nothing else. This is how people fool others and themselves…they know the “right” words to say.

Jesus said you’ll know a tree by its fruit, not from the noise the leaves make as the breeze whistles through them.

All I wanted was your understanding. Nothing more nothing less. Will move on.