Hello!

[for_his_glory]

Easy, “just pray a prayer asking Jesus into your heart and you’ll be born again. It’s that easy. In fact we’ll all pray that prayer so you won’t experience any unpleasant feelings like embarrassment.”

Repeating a written "Sinners Prayer" in a public setting, like many of us have in the past, does not make you born again just like standing in a garage makes you a car. It's by the condition of the heart and confessing we are sinners that need God's grace as we are saved by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we then start our personal relationship with Christ.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[for_his_glory]

Because Jesus didn’t say “spiritually” and he spoke those words to exactly one man in the whole of his ministry. It is a metaphor.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus explaining that it is a Spiritual renewal (Spiritually born again) within every man/woman in order to see the kingdom of God. Flesh can have no part of the Spiritual as it is a hostile enemy against the Spirit of God.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus explaining that it is a Spiritual renewal (Spiritually born again) within every man/woman in order to see the kingdom of God. Flesh can have no part of the Spiritual as it is a hostile enemy against the Spirit of God.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jesus used this metaphor with only one person his whole ministry.

 

[eddif]

Jesus used this metaphor with only one person his whole ministry.

Meta - greater, beyond
Phor - bearer, conveyer or carrier
The talk of born again carries the concept of the second birth. In words or science.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Who is in charge of birth?
The builder and maker is God.

God is in heaven.
We have the law placed in our hearts and mind.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

The speech center is in the brain. The doorway to the brain is the heart. If God has put his law in our heart and mind he did the work . The second Adam became a quickening spirit. A person is not his on quickening spirit. Born naturally - born spiritually.

Repentance of the heart comes first. John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. A repentant person cries out what must I do to be saved.

The spirit of the mind comes from the mental meal with Jesus. Jesus taught the disciples. Inside us the quickening spirit leads us.

Part is flesh part is spirit.
Metaphysics is two parts:
The physical part and the spiritual part beyond the veil of flesh (physical part).

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and fire. If we will not let Jesus inside, there is no hope of this second birth.

And that is about all I know about all this. Well I could quote some scriptures to support statements.

eddif

 

[for_his_glory]

Meta - greater, beyond
Phor - bearer, conveyer or carrier
The talk of born again carries the concept of the second birth. In words or science.

Revelation 3:20 kjv
20. Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Who is in charge of birth?
The builder and maker is God.

God is in heaven.
We have the law placed in our hearts and mind.

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

The speech center is in the brain. The doorway to the brain is the heart. If God has put his law in our heart and mind he did the work . The second Adam became a quickening spirit. A person is not his on quickening spirit. Born naturally - born spiritually.

Repentance of the heart comes first. John the Baptist prepared the way for Jesus. A repentant person cries out what must I do to be saved.

The spirit of the mind comes from the mental meal with Jesus. Jesus taught the disciples. Inside us the quickening spirit leads us.

Part is flesh part is spirit.
Metaphysics is two parts:
The physical part and the spiritual part beyond the veil of flesh (physical part).

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and fire. If we will not let Jesus inside, there is no hope of this second birth.

And that is about all I know about all this. Well I could quote some scriptures to support statements.

eddif

Very well said

 

[for_his_glory]

Jesus used this metaphor with only one person his whole ministry.

Please show us with scripture where Jesus used the words born again with only one person as there are many scriptures that teach us that we must be born again of the Spirit.

John 3:5-7; Acts 2:38; Romans 6:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 1 Peter 1:3, 23; Titus 3:5

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Please show us with scripture where Jesus used the words born again with only one person as there are many scriptures that teach us that we must be born again of the Spirit.

John 3:5-7; Acts 2:38; Romans 6:4; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 1 Peter 1:3, 23; Titus 3:5

Now a lesson in logic first, one cannot prove in scripture that no scripture exists on a particular point. Do you see why? There is no scripture saying a certain matter is not in scripture because as soon as scripture discusses it, then it’s no longer not in scripture.

But thankfully for me, you proved that Jesus used the metaphor “born again” only once because the only set of scriptures referring to “born again” in your references that are quotes from Jesus are the ones from John. Only 1 reference quoting Jesus. Hence, he used it once. The rest are quotes from Luke, Paul, and Peter. I rest my case.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Repeating a written "Sinners Prayer" in a public setting, like many of us have in the past, does not make you born again just like standing in a garage makes you a car. It's by the condition of the heart and confessing we are sinners that need God's grace as we are saved by faith, which is Christ Jesus as we then start our personal relationship with Christ.

Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

None of that is explained when the preacher wants get people to “repeat after him” so he can pronounce them “born again” and going to heaven so he can later report that people “got saved” in his services.

 

[Edward]

None of that is explained when the preacher wants get people to “repeat after him” so he can pronounce them “born again” and going to heaven so he can later report that people “got saved” in his services.

Sometimes I wonder if we don't get saved instantly when we say the sinners prayer. But maybe, at that time, we are given the power to become sons of God...But must now, study to show ourselves approved, and praying without ceasing. Then at some point of doing that, Boom. The hammer of Salvation lands upon you and you do get changed!

As many Pastors that like to count sinners prayers as conversions to their credit, is there not even more people who grab onto that thought, I'm saved" so it doesn't matter, and go home unchanged and do not study or show themselves approved?

These people may be the ones who the Lord says to, I never knew you. So instead of OSAS and not a works based salvation so I'm good to go and can continue my unperfect life...doesn't smell right?
Maybe OSAS IS true, but maybe we don't get instantly saved when we first say the sinners prayer?! Maybe its more like,

Me: (First time Sinners Prayer)...

God: (Takes Notice!) To others there: let's watch him and see if he searches for me!...

Me: I don't need to study, they say its prolly wrong anyway. And I would'n't want to be accused of a works based salvation so I wont do any good works or even go to church...

God:

Me: I'm saved, I'm saved, I'msaved!

God: I never knew you.

Those who seek me shall find me. Those who knock it shall be opened. After saying the sinners prayer first time, that is the time to begin seeking God through His word and through prayer. And those aren't works. Those are, studying to show thyself approved!

Approved of what? Approved of Salvation! And you'll know something happened when it does. Take my word for it, when Jesus walks in the room...you know it! He don't come for no reason. He came because you searched long enough and are thereby approved.

?? Maybe.

 

[T. E. Smith]

As many Pastors that like to count sinners prayers as conversions to their credit, is there not even more people who grab onto that thought, I'm saved" so it doesn't matter, and go home unchanged and do not study or show themselves approved?

Yes. A man at my church told his testimony before baptism; often those testimonies can be a little shallow, but this one was quite powerful. He described how his Sunday School pastor had the class close their eyes and bow their heads, then raise their hands if they were not Christians. After SS, the pastor told all of those non-Christian children (including the man giving the testimony) to recite a prayer of repentance asking God for salvation. He did so, and was pronounced saved.

It is not dissimilar to the Islamic practice of forcing "conversions" out of heretics. Just say the words, that's all that counts.

Of course this church practice takes advantage of the natural ignorance of young children, having them say things they don't understand.

 

[Edward]

Yes. A man at my church told his testimony before baptism; often those testimonies can be a little shallow, but this one was quite powerful. He described how his Sunday School pastor had the class close their eyes and bow their heads, then raise their hands if they were not Christians. After SS, the pastor told all of those non-Christian children (including the man giving the testimony) to recite a prayer of repentance asking God for salvation. He did so, and was pronounced saved.

It is not dissimilar to the Islamic practice of forcing "conversions" out of heretics. Just say the words, that's all that counts.

Of course this church practice takes advantage of the natural ignorance of young children, having them say things they don't understand.

Perhaps. But the Holy Spirit moves in quick and starts nudging the pronounced new Believer to read his Bible and find out more about God and whhat's this all about?

You need to be reading the word from your spirit in order for the Holy Spirit to begin teaching you.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Perhaps. But the Holy Spirit moves in quick and starts nudging the pronounced new Believer to read his Bible and find out more about God and whhat's this all about?

You need to be reading the word from your spirit in order for the Holy Spirit to begin teaching you.

He did not begin to be saved (according to him) until his 30s. He was 7 when his teacher had him recite the prayer.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Sometimes I wonder if we don't get saved instantly when we say the sinners prayer. But maybe, at that time, we are given the power to become sons of God...But must now, study to show ourselves approved, and praying without ceasing. Then at some point of doing that, Boom. The hammer of Salvation lands upon you and you do get changed!

As many Pastors that like to count sinners prayers as conversions to their credit, is there not even more people who grab onto that thought, I'm saved" so it doesn't matter, and go home unchanged and do not study or show themselves approved?

These people may be the ones who the Lord says to, I never knew you. So instead of OSAS and not a works based salvation so I'm good to go and can continue my unperfect life...doesn't smell right?
Maybe OSAS IS true, but maybe we don't get instantly saved when we first say the sinners prayer?! Maybe its more like,

Me: (First time Sinners Prayer)...

God: (Takes Notice!) To others there: let's watch him and see if he searches for me!...

Me: I don't need to study, they say its prolly wrong anyway. And I would'n't want to be accused of a works based salvation so I wont do any good works or even go to church...

God:

Me: I'm saved, I'm saved, I'msaved!

God: I never knew you.

Those who seek me shall find me. Those who knock it shall be opened. After saying the sinners prayer first time, that is the time to begin seeking God through His word and through prayer. And those aren't works. Those are, studying to show thyself approved!

Approved of what? Approved of Salvation! And you'll know something happened when it does. Take my word for it, when Jesus walks in the room...you know it! He don't come for no reason. He came because you searched long enough and are thereby approved.

?? Maybe.

The sinners’ prayer is useless unless the heart attitude is right as for_his_glory said. But this is never mentioned when employing it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Now a lesson in logic first, one cannot prove in scripture that no scripture exists on a particular point. Do you see why? There is no scripture saying a certain matter is not in scripture because as soon as scripture discusses it, then it’s no longer not in scripture.

But thankfully for me, you proved that Jesus used the metaphor “born again” only once because the only set of scriptures referring to “born again” in your references that are quotes from Jesus are the ones from John. Only 1 reference quoting Jesus. Hence, he used it once. The rest are quotes from Luke, Paul, and Peter. I rest my case.

John 3:1-7 Jesus first teaches Nicodemus that we (not just Nicodemus) must be born again in order to see the kingdom of God as His kingdom is Spiritual, thus we need to be Spiritually born again, or another word, Spiritually renewed within our spirit. From that point He taught His disciples about being Spiritually born again and what the disciples taught were the teachings of Christ. It would be logic to know what the disciples wrote are the teachings of Christ and not of themselves.

May I ask if you are Spiritually born again from above?

 

[for_his_glory]

None of that is explained when the preacher wants get people to “repeat after him” so he can pronounce them “born again” and going to heaven so he can later report that people “got saved” in his services.

Pastors need to teach what being Spiritually born again is all about. Back in 1972 when I repeated that prayer in service I did so because I did not want to go to hell. I knew nothing about having a personal relationship with Christ as I thought if I repeated that prayer I would be a Christian. Boy was I wrong.

 

[T. E. Smith]

Pastors need to teach what being Spiritually born again is all about. Back in 1972 when I repeated that prayer in service I did so because I did not want to go to hell. I knew nothing about having a personal relationship with Christ as I thought if I repeated that prayer I would be a Christian. Boy was I wrong.

To be born again is to become the heirs of God to receive the inheritance (1 Pet. 1:4), and co-heirs with Jesus, since the born again Christian is born to/of God, as one of Christ's siblings. Since Christ is the firstborn, he receives a greater inheritance, but the Christians still receive an inheritance.

This is what the Bible actually teaches, not the wishy-washy modern evangelical church theology.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Perhaps. But the Holy Spirit moves in quick and starts nudging the pronounced new Believer to read his Bible and find out more about God and whhat's this all about?

You need to be reading the word from your spirit in order for the Holy Spirit to begin teaching you.

One would have to test this out to see if it is true. It’s a nice theory but I’m more inclined to think for_his_glory has a better idea.

 

[for_his_glory]

To be born again is to become the heirs of God to receive the inheritance (1 Pet. 1:4), and co-heirs with Jesus, since the born again Christian is born to/of God, as one of Christ's siblings. Since Christ is the firstborn, he receives a greater inheritance, but the Christians still receive an inheritance.

This is what the Bible actually teaches, not the wishy-washy modern evangelical church theology.

Nicodemus had no understanding until Jesus explained it to him, just how Pastors need to explain it the same way Jesus did.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

[for_his_glory]

One would have to test this out to see if it is true. It’s a nice theory but I’m more inclined to think for_his_glory has a better idea.

Repentance gives us that opportunity to receive a new beginning in our life as God wipes away all our past sins and remembers them no more. Repentance allows the door to be opened for Christ to come into our lives so we may receive his Holy Spirit to help guide us in our walk with the Lord and to show us a life that is pleasing to the Father. It’s through the Holy Spirit that we come into a better understanding of Gods word by allowing His Spirit to teach us all things we need to know for the purpose and time of ministry to ourselves and to others.

There is only one way for God to recognize who are his and that is by us opening our heart and confessing we are sinners and knowing that we need to make a change in our lives in order for us to have eternal life with the Father. It’s not our will anymore to make decisions in our lives, but is now we allowing Gods will to make a betterment in our lives. As we follow in the footsteps of Christ we are now dead to self and alive now through the grace of God who wants nothing more than to shower us with his blessings as we surrender all to him through the transfiguration of our heart through repentance of our sins.

When we ask for our sins to be forgiven they are not only forgiven, but they are also forgotten. Our hearts become renewed again and we are given the Holy Spirit, which is the that Spirit of God made flesh in Jesus and given to us for comfort and learning. We receive the Holy Spirit at the time of repentance by asking Jesus into our hearts. Some like to be baptized in actual water, which there is nothing wrong with that as it is an outward appearance to others that you have accepted Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 2:39 for the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Now that we have been transformed from the old man to the spiritual man of God we now become as a newborn baby and our spirit needs nourishment from the word of God and the only way to get the nourishment we need is to get into the word and study it by allowing the Holy Spirit teach it to us for truth and understanding.​

 

[T. E. Smith]

Nicodemus had no understanding until Jesus explained it to him, just how Pastors need to explain it the same way Jesus did.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

To be clear, Romans 10 and Acts 2 do not use the metaphor of rebirth. Only John 3 and 1 Peter 1 ever uses the analogy in all of Scripture.

But Jesus' "explanation" is so complex as to require an explanation, even longer, all its own. "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Although "born again" is found only in John 3 and 1 Peter 1, the idea of being heirs with Jesus, sons of God, brothers of Jesus: "therefore he is not ashamed to call them brothers" (though he proceeds to misquote the Tanakh completely, Isaiah 8:18 has nothing to do with Jesus) - that all shows the NT perspective on what it could mean.