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Help please. Gotten too much.

M

Missinquisitive

Member
Hello,

I have been married for ten years to a man who started to call himself a Christian about 6 years ago. I am a Christian and have been walking with greater commitment and obedience for about 5 years but a Christian since I was 16.

My problem is that my husband has never changed. He lies to the point that I honestly have no idea if what he is saying is truthful or not. He will lie about what he had for lunch! That is not an exaggeration it is what he does.

My main concern is that he lies a lot to cover pornography use (one year since finding the last magazine but I believe this has happened since). He has a serious issue with lust and obsessive fantasising about women. This is so bad that he looks down my adult daughter inlaws top and at her bottom and also looks lustfully at my adult daughter (his step daughter) who lives away from home.

We have stopped going to church because of his flirting and staring at women. He will pick a girl and fantasise about her, something like a crush. I feel extrememly guilty taking him into or around the body.

He listens to me speak about Christian topics and parrots me when around other Christians but does not like talking to me directly about anything of a Christian nature.

He is very abusive verbally at home but quiet natured and sweet at church when attending or around others. Shows little interest in his children (extremely hands off and indifferent to them) and plays video games all weekend is sits on the Internet.

I am at my witts end and have moments when I feel suicidal (I won't do it out of obedience to God but it is a horrible feeling). The years of stubborn abnormal lying, sexual obsessiveness and immorality and the mental abuse has reduced my life to almost complete shut down.

As a Christian how should I handle these unrelenting issues in a way that will please God??
 
Hi Missinquisitive, welcome to the forum... I hope we can be of some help to you.

As for your marriage... You do have a clear case for a biblical divorce. The lust that you describe is sexual immorality, the one thing that even Jesus said is a valid reason for divorce.

So, if you want out of your marriage, then there would be nothing dishonoring to God to divorce.

It sounds as if you have minor children with this man so divorce is a huge question. However, it also sounds as if his issues are probably making him less than a solid father figure for them.

If you don't want a divorce, if you would rather stay in the marriage, OK... but realize that unless he sees that he has a problem and chooses to work on it, very little will change.

I realize that this might sound rather depressing and that there would be more hope... but truly, unless he really makes a 180, it would most likely be better for you and the children to divorce.
 
handy said:
Hi Missinquisitive, welcome to the forum... I hope we can be of some help to you.

As for your marriage... You do have a clear case for a biblical divorce. The lust that you describe is sexual immorality, the one thing that even Jesus said is a valid reason for divorce.
Click to expand...

Dora, Jesus doesn't give a valid reason for divorce, only Moses did.

And Pharisees came up and in order to test him asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" 3 He answered them, "What did Moses command you?" 4 They said, "Moses allowed a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to put her away." 5 But Jesus said to them, "For your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. 6 But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female.' 7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. 9 What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder." 10 And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. 11 And he said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; 12 and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Is adultery forgivable? Absolutely and I think we can make a good case against a woman being abuses leaving her husband as well.

Saves by Grace,

I know you are looking to save your marriage, and I find that honorable and I can't imagine how hard the past years have been for you to bear the burden you've been bearing.

I learned a long time ago with my first marriage how bad it hurts when your spouse cheats on you, so I share your pain. It gave me resolve to never cheat on my spouse, and I know that means keeping a tight reign on my eyes.

Talk to your husband and tell him how you feel, let him know the hurt he is causing. He needs to hear it. But encourage him as well and by that I mean encourage him to be the man he is capable of being.

You might tell him that although his wandering eye hurts you, that you understand the lure, and you desire better for him. We cannot control the thoughts that come into our minds, but we can control what we do with them. Tell him that you understand that a pretty girl is going to catch his eye, but encourage him not to let that thought consume him. Tell him you know he has the discipline to control his thoughts, because you've seen in do it (and give an example). It's the same principal.

Ask him if he loves you and ask him if he's just comfortable, or if he's interested in growing a deeper relationship with you. If he says the later, then tell him that it's natural that when somebody does something against another person, they can never really be honest, or look the other in the eye with a clear conscience. Tell him that he knows he's hurting you, and in order for your relationship to flourish, he needs to be able to look you in the eye with a clean conscience and the only way he can do that is to stop hurting you this way... and when he does, he will discover a relationship with you that will be more rewarding than even you'll understand. And that's better than any fantasy.

Right now your husband is committing adultery, and it's hurting you. But it's hurting him as well. He just doesn't understand how it's hurting him, or he isn't seeing the long term consequences. In Colossians and in Ephesians there are two principals that Paul pulls forth from the Torah. One is about stealing and the other about lieing. You see, we seem to think that one stops becoming a liar when one stops telling lies. And we seem to think that one stops being a thief when they stop stealing. That isn't a biblical truth. No, one stops being a liar when one starts telling the truth. Likewise, one stops being a thief when they give to others in need freely. Repentance isn't just stopping a behavior, it's starting a new behavior.

As it relates to your marriage, in order for him to stop one behavior, he needs to start a new, healthier one.

I feel your pain. Grace and peace.
 
I'm not going to argue about my advice here... this isn't the place for it.

But, I do stand by it.

Most here know me, that I'm not one to advise divorce lightly.

In this case, with a woman brought to the brink of suicide by the deeply ingrained character flaws of a husband, I think she can freely consider it.

Missinquisitive shared that "I am at my witts end and have moments when I feel suicidal (I won't do it out of obedience to God but it is a horrible feeling). The years of stubborn abnormal lying, sexual obsessiveness and immorality and the mental abuse has reduced my life to almost complete shut down.

As a Christian how should I handle these unrelenting issues in a way that will please God??"

One way to handle this unrelenting issue is via divorce. What passes as excuses for divorce these days generaly does not please God, but this is different.

Jeff (StoveBolts) I guess you're either using a version of Scripture that I am unfamiliar with or you're quoting a different text than Matthew 19, but there is one phrase in your quote that seems to be missing:

<sup class="versenum">9 </sup>And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.â€

This is why I said that Jesus gives a valid reason for divorce, and I stand by it... This is a clear case of sexual immorality upon the part of a husband. He has violated their wedding vows by lusting after women, which is adultery, even to the point of lusting after this woman's very own daughter... a sin most unbelievers recoil at.

Had it been Missinquisitive's husband who wrote here, showing remorse and asking for help to save his marriage, I would have a completely different response.

But, it wasn't. And, this husband not only lusts after Missinquisitive's own daughter and daughter-in-law, should he say that he is repenting, how can she even believe him since he is a habitual liar as well.

When a marriage has become so broken that one is lusting after his spouse's children and she is dealing with suicidal thoughts... it's time to realize that unless the Holy Spirit intervenes and truly regenerates her reprobate of a husband, her marriage is unsalvageable.

Again, I would not give the same advice if it was the husband who was crying out for help.

But it's not. Should Missinquisitive choose to remain and try again to work things out, Jeff has given some good advice.

Missinquisitive asked a valid question and the answer to her question as to "how to handle the unrelenting problems in a way that will please God" is that divorce, under these circumstances, is not going to displease God for Jesus did say "except for immorality".

Lusting after your wife's adult daughter and daughter in law is about as immoral as it gets.

Missinquisitive, it truly is up to you whether or not to try to salvage your marriage, and since there appears to be minor children involved perhaps you might want to remain to give them a more stable home.

But, children are highly perceptive and this kind of behavior on the part of their father will impact them greatly as well. Especially since he is a liar and will most likely lie to them to make you the bad guy in all this.

However, you may read through Matthew 19:1-10 yourself... The question posed to him was is divorce OK for any reason... Jesus said no, but does give the exemption of divorce for sexual immorality.

You may ask for further advice from your pastor or spiritual advisers, but I truly believe that it would not be dishonoring to God to divorce in your case.
 
Misinquisitive,

I truly feel your pain and will be praying for you.
 
Dora,

I understand your view. But I also understand that last ditch effort to save a marriage. From my vantage, I see her reaching out for help to save her marriage, not justify how to get out of it. Perhaps I am wrong... but I learned a long time ago that when 2 people seperate, the one initiating the seperation needs to come to that conclusion and stand on their own two feet or that person will either live the rest of their lives with a since of guilt, or they will go back into the abusive realtionship being even more submissive which would spiral her emotions to a deeper state of dispair at a later time.

The mariage is in dire straights, and I feel for her. Any decision she makes will be a difficult decision for her. Any time anyone considers suicide its not a good thing. Something terrible is taking place around them. Its not a good place to be... I know first hand. If she leaves him, how do either of us know she has the support group to get her through those long lonely nights when everything around her collapses and guilt sets in and everything has gotten worse because divorce is never friendly. Because those suicidal thoughts just may resurface, and with the added guilt... now you see my fear.

Maybe I am just crazy dora... but from my view, which is limeted by her one single post, neither of us are really in a place to give her good solid direction... and if I misread her, then shame on me. But I heard her crying out for help to save her marriage. I could be wrong... I could be wrong about a lot of things.
 
Just to clarify things, it is Missinquisitive and not Saves By Grace that is reaching out for help....


And, yes, I could be on the wrong track here as well Jeff. If Missinquisitive returns and gives more insight to what she is seeking we can certainly take more into consideration....

My pov comes from her specific question as to how to handle things in a way that will please God and I do want her to know that, in this case, divorce is not dishonoring to God. I'm also influenced by her statement that in 10 years, her husband has never changed.

Lot's of things to consider here to be sure... In the end, it will come down to Missinquisitive and the Lord.... perhaps to her husband as well, but he doesn't seem to be working on any of the issues. Perhaps the Holy Spirit will move him to change... that would be nice, but it might not happen. It's best to deal with the facts as they are, rather than wishful thinking.

...but divorce isn't a dishonoring option in this case.
 
:eeeekkk egad. i know how my wife feels when i did look at porn.

i have a step-daughter and out of respect i wouldnt dare even think about that! im raising her children by being that father to her kids! egad. based on what i have seen. divorce may be the only option for you. pray about it and do find a pastor to get advice. porn and the lust will not get better if he is allowed to lust like that. for the safety of your children at least consider that option.
 
Thank-you for your guidance,

I really did need confirmation that divorce in this situation is not dishonouring to God. I have not decided on divorce or even seperate on as yet (live so strongly in hope) but as mentioned aside from the turmoil this has me in constantly there are also others effected which are my children.

It is so hard to decide the best for them all. On one hand I have the older children (two in twenties and two teens) from my first very abusive and adulterous marraige who are now being mistreated in this marraige (I have to struggle with my anger over this) and then on the other hand have three young children who despite their fathers issues, adore him.

It has come to the point where, as mentioned above, I am asking myself and praying is it better for the younger children to be out of this and in a seperated life but at least a peaceful life. My children do not know peace. It breaks my heart and I already feel guilty for the unGodly choices I made in husbands and the devestation this has had on not only my own life but theirs also. I live on God's mercy and pray my children do also.

You're advice has genuinely been absorbed. As I said I did need clarification on divorce. Mostly so I can think clearly. It is hard to make decisions and problem solve in this kind is situation and without clear understanding.

I also got a lot from the acknowledgement about guilt. It is a serious issue for me and I do struggle with it. I believe a lot of that guilt though is created or stirred within me by my spouse as this is one of his strongest tactics. He is very diminishing of me. I have been trying to discuss these issues with him for many years but I literally get a door slammed in my face 9 times out of ten and the other times yelled at to "f off". This is part of the harassment that I feel, the never allowing me to express concerns (no feelings allowed) and never having him show any inclination toward change.

Thank-you again for your advice. I can't tell you how helpful sound and seriously thought out advice is and how hard it is to come across. Water in a very dry desert at the moment and thank you beyond words for your prayers. Nothing has lifted my spirit more than reading the words "praying for you".
 
Jasoncran,

Thank-you for your advice. Looking at my daughter to some might not sound as bad as it actually is on a practical outplay. This one (reoccurring) act of disrespect and lustfulness has been the hardest of all things to deal with. This behaviour at one stage when my daughter was a young teen tempted her to respond by playing up to the demeaning attention. It broke my heart and I did leave but was talked back again with many apologies. My lovely daughter was getting a terrible lesson about admiration and her gender and hundreds of other issues. Fortunately my daughter fairly quickly saw that this attention was very wrong (not just from this man but any man other than her husband) and overcame any childish (natural as she was a mere child) desire for attention in this manner. What replaced that initial sense of awe at being admired though was a contempt for him that I cannot blame her for. This man just looking at my daughter this way has strained everyone's life. Problems and emotions have flowed and rippled out from disrespect in a way that I can barely cope with.

I think the real problem sometimes is that I am trying to make the impossible work. Trying to make a marraige that is impossible, possible and all I seem to be doing is heaping up bitterness in the hearts of my children. Not only towards my husband but also me. The younger children and a fear of being disobedient to God are the forces keeping me in the marraige.
 
Missinquisitive,

I will keep you in my prayers and ask for God to guide you to the right decision. You have a clear case of being able to divorce and it not be a sin. God created man and woman to be helpmates to each other. If one doesn't adhere to what God requires of each partner they have sinned against God and their partner. Since your husband has done these things, he has violated his marriage covenant with you and is not treating you as a helpmate that God demands.

There have been a few posters that have quoted versions of the Bible that say that a woman who divorces and remarries is committing adultary. In the original King James and earlier versions of the scripture use the phrase "put away". Putting away/putting out is completely different than divorce under Mosaic Law. To get a divorce a Jewish man would receive a certificate of divorce from the priests. He was under no obligation to hand the certificate to his wife and would throw her out into the street. This is what the phrase "put away/put out" means. A Jewish woman without the certificate of divorce could not prove to the priests that she was divorced, so if another man married her she is still married to her first husband due to the requirement of her needing the certificate.


So when Jesus is teaching about divorce, in some translations, He is in reality talking about a husband throwing his wife into the street and not giving her the certificate of divorce.
 
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Looking at my daughter to some might not sound as bad as it actually is on a practical outplay.
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Sounds about as bad as it could get to me... and yet I agree with you on this.

I truly hate to sound alarmist, Missinquisitive. I really do. But, you do need to be extra vigilant that your husband isn't sexually abusing the children. He has already trampled over so many boundaries.. there is really no reason to trust he wouldn't trample this one as well.

As far as the guilt is concerned, there is real guilt and there is assumed guilt.

Real guilt comes from the Holy Spirit when we have sinned against God. It clarifies what the sin is and spurs the person to get right with God.

Assumed guilt is guilt that we sort of infuse into ourselves because we think we ought to feel bad about something. It makes us feel bad, stupid, worthless, and more apt to try to hide from God thinking He could never forgive us of doing that.

I know that a Christian woman who has married twice would most likely take on a lot of assumed guilt about her choices in men, her ability to be a good mother, whether or not the problems with the marriages were ultimately her own fault...

However, unless the guilt you feel is clarifying a sin that you truly committed and is making it hard for you to ignore God's call to repentance, it is not from God and not based in truth. Divorcing an adulterous husband is by no means a sin.

Jeff brought up a very good point about having a support system. It sounds as if you've been out of church for a while, I hope you have family, or a circle of friends to lend you support irregardless of whether you remain married or not.

One thing you said does need to be addressed. You said, "On one hand I have the older children (two in twenties and two teens) from my first very abusive and adulterous marraige who are now being mistreated in this marraige (I have to struggle with my anger over this) and then on the other hand have three young children who despite their fathers issues, adore him."

Your children in their 20's are one thing... but your teens should not be subjected to mistreatment by their mother's new husband. And your younger children will one day be as old as the daughter who now "gets it"...

Looking at this from the outside as opposed being in the thick of it, the answer seems very clear... you and your children all would be better out of this marriage.

However, again... this is between you and the Lord.

Many prayers for you sister!
 
If you go the way of divorce, and I'm not saying you shouldn't... don't get the idea you'll live a peaceful life. Prepare for a brutal battle and make sure you have solid friends that will be there for you.

He will pit you as the mean parent while he remains the friend. Hey, the grass is always greener over the septic field... you will find through divorce that even though what you do is good, it will be twisted against you. The abuse doesn't end when you get a divorce, it just redirects in a more covert manner. Don't give him any wiggle room, and adhere to a strick visitation plan if you go for a divorce.

Its tough stuff... no wonder God hates it.
 
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