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Help with discernment

Certainly the web designer did a good job. As far as the subject matter, I don't know. Why is 'psychiatric abuse' a christian thing? I think everyone should be against any kind of psychiatric abuse. However, as usually happens in these kinds of issues, the problem arises when we try to define 'psychiatric abuse'.

God bless,
Ted
 
I found a Christian ministry dedicated in part to debunking the mental health industry a blessing because so many churches have been infiltrated and undermined by the psych industry.
 
I mean, I'm sure you already have an idea what I think.

Honestly, looking the site over, it looks little different from many of those "Kings James only" websites, albeit with better web design. Everything I'm seeing seems to be an opinion piece rather than something backed up with scriptures or research.
 
Hi Christ_empowered
Christ_empowered said:
I found a Christian ministry dedicated in part to debunking the mental health industry a blessing because so many churches have been infiltrated and undermined by the psych industry.
Click to expand...
You'll have to give me some examples. Honestly, in my 25 years of worshiping with various fellowships, I've never known of there being some infiltration and undermining by the psych industry. Now, certainly many such professionals, who may not believe in God/Jesus, might tell people that religious practices are generally some kind of crutch that man needs to feel good about himself. But I've never seen such attitudes displayed 'within' the fellowship. These might be ideas that are expressed by some counseling in a professional capacity within their office.

God bless,
Ted
 
A local megachurch minister openly talked about his ongoing meds and therapy treatment. Must not have been so helpful…he divorced his wife after being removed as minister. He has a new church and new wife which is apparently a good thing?

A local psychiatrist advertises his faith. Local churches refer to him. He is a rather frequent controlled substance prescriber and he routinely recommends shock therapy.

I basically live in the southern version of any city USA . All American just southern accents and some good bbq places. What happens here undoubtedly happens elsewhere…
 
Christ_empowered said:
A local megachurch minister openly talked about his ongoing meds and therapy treatment. Must not have been so helpful…he divorced his wife after being removed as minister. He has a new church and new wife which is apparently a good thing?

A local psychiatrist advertises his faith. Local churches refer to him. He is a rather frequent controlled substance prescriber and he routinely recommends shock therapy.

I basically live in the southern version of any city USA . All American just southern accents and some good bbq places. What happens here undoubtedly happens elsewhere…
Click to expand...
Hi Christ_empowered

Oh, I'm sure it does, but it would seem to be a fairly 'rare' thing. Anyway, if you feel called to support this 'problem' within the fellowship, then I would encourage you to do so.

God bless,
Ted
 
Christ_empowered said:
It’s the fundamental incompatibility of psych industry with a Christian worldview that gets to me especially as a psych survivor..,
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Hi CE,
I don't think miamited might know you very well since he's a faily new member.

My opinion (personal - but not pertaining to me but a family member -) is that the psych arm of the medical industry tells you things that are OPPOSED to Christianity. One rather young (35 or so) ologist said that we're to think of ourselves and do what is right for us. Ha! If our family had done that, the person needing him would have ended up in a psych ward! Thanks God we DO try to follow His teachings. Changed doctor. Some pills did the trick. It was a psy,trist.

I can't watch the video till much later.
Catch you then.
 
wondering said:
the psych arm of the medical industry tells you things that are OPPOSED to Christianity.
Click to expand...

That's what he's been saying all along. The entire Psyche industry is lies. Convincing people they are sick and then suddenly, they are sick.

But if you believe in the Great Physician above you will look to Him first, where healing is. Clarity of mind. Freedom.

So don't hold more belief in Psychiatrists than you do the Lord. When you do that, you lose the Lord's protection because (you made the choice) to believe the Psychiatris instead of Him. So He lets you wallow in your choice until you return and ask for His help.
 
I was deliberately over medicated by an outpatient shrink. The combos included high dose Klonopin which is basically Valium but higher potency per milligram. It wasn’t until after a religious program from 24 to 25 and then coming to my senses at age 28 that my life really changed in good ways. I was a teenager when I saw the shrink and the labels and stigma seem to be stuck with me indefinitely.
 
That’s part of my problem with the psych industry. I went to prepay for gas today and a clerk was picking at me with psych labels and other junk. I don’t know her she looks younger than me and…?

Then some other clerk got in on the act and dropped the name of the private for profit corporate hospital I was held at nearly 20 years ago.

This is what psych survivors deal with and it’s much milder in my life now than some horror stories I’ve heard. Ugh 😑
 
Hi Christ_empowered

Apparently there are things known about you that make a difference in how others feel. wondering was a bit ambiguous about it, but there certainly seems to be something there, but...
Christ_empowered said:
went to prepay for gas today and a clerk was picking at me with psych labels and other junk. I don’t know her she looks younger than me and…?
Click to expand...
Really? You went to prepay for gas at your local station and the clerk was 'picking at me with psych labels and other junk'. I mean, I do a lot of interacting with companies and their customer service reps and I just can't imagine that some clerk sitting in a convenience store would feel a need to pick on anyone in such a way. Unless, your actions or words tend to invite that kind of response.

I mean I'm sorry, but I just can't really imagine that such a thing happens out of the clear blue when someone goes in to pay for their gas. Usually that's just a quick, hand over my money or my CC and then the clerk says, "Thanks. Have a good day." So, I'm guessing that you likely suffer from fairly severe anxiety issues, or some other personal issue, that causes you to feel put upon by others. That's ok, but if that's the case, then that does need to be taken into account as to 'what' happened at the gas station. And I do understand. I'm taking care of my 12 year old granddaughter and her mother has taught her to be afraid of everything!!!!! She's afraid to talk to people. She can't make friends because of her anxiety about herself. She is heavy and so she's personally embarrassed by her own body and she just can't seem to get past that and just go out there and be who she is and talk to people. She actually goes to my adult Sunday morning small group, even though our fellowship has a pretty big youth group, because she is just scared to death to try and assimilate into the younger group. She thinks everyone is always talking about her. She tells me that other students just sit and stare at her all day in class. Really??? She won a free personal pizza from Papa John's as a reward for making the honor roll, and she was afraid to go in a order her pizza. "Grandpa, can you please order for me? I don't know what to say." So I told her, you hold out the gift certificate and you say, "I want my pizza." She was too afraid to do that on her own. At 12 years of age.

The other day I went to pick her up from school and as I pulled along the curb, I guess my tire rubbed it. I mean, I didn't hear or feel a thing. She jumps in the car reading me the riot act because I had rubbed the curb with my tire everyone was looking at her because they knew I was coming to pick her up and she was so embarrassed that she literally made me promise that I would never do such a thing again. I, of course, refused. I'm not going to pander to her fear.

But I know her. I know that the problem isn't the other people. So, I mean if you were acting somehow strange and talking bat guano, then sure, I can see someone saying, "Man, what are you? Nuts?"

God bless,
Ted
 
Christ_empowered said:
This is what psych survivors deal with
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think this is typical. I have certainly never been treated this way, and no one else I know who goes to mental health clinics (particularly the one I go to, such as the people who go to the peer group) does.
Believe me, I would be a wreck if people did treat me the way they treat you. And I'm actually very open about my mental issues.

Which is why your case is so puzzling. You touched in another thread on how people seem to know a lot about your history that you can't remember. Perhaps when you were young you did a lot of stuff publicly that people still remember and/or tell others about?
 
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Edward said:
That's what he's been saying all along. The entire Psyche industry is lies. Convincing people they are sick and then suddenly, they are sick.

But if you believe in the Great Physician above you will look to Him first, where healing is. Clarity of mind. Freedom.

So don't hold more belief in Psychiatrists than you do the Lord. When you do that, you lose the Lord's protection because (you made the choice) to believe the Psychiatris instead of Him. So He lets you wallow in your choice until you return and ask for His help.
Click to expand...
Do you know anybody with mental problems?
I know someone that has schizophrenia.
He hears voices speaking to him, and he's depressed and can't live on his own.

He didn't go to a pshychiatrist and the Dr. invented a mental illness for him so my friend could start taking pills.
He ended up at a hospital because his co-workers called an ambulance when they found him hitting his head against a wall at the American Airlines Terminal at JFK. Thank God there are pills and he's better today - but not 100%.

So, this is my question to you:
Do you believe mental illness is imagined,
or do you think it's a physical ailment?

IOW, what causes depression...
having a sad day
or
is it a physical problem?

PS
I was talking about psychologists, but hey, sometimes people need them too.
They DO tell you things I don't agree with, but if they help someone, it's good for the sick person.
 
wondering said:
Do you know anybody with mental problems?
I know someone that has schizophrenia.
He hears voices speaking to him, and he's depressed and can't live on his own.
Click to expand...

Not in real life. I have a cousin who was very normal and his girlfriend pushed him out of a 2nd story window and he hit the ground hard and caused him to be, non finctional for the most part. He can't live on his own, he's like an 8 yr old kid now. But it's not mental, he got messed up in the fall somehow.

wondering said:
So, this is my question to you:
Do you believe mental illness is imagined,
or do you think it's a physical ailment?

IOW, what causes depression...
having a sad day
or
is it a physical problem?
Click to expand...

No, I do not think that mental illness is imagined, as in, not real. This goes back to Eden. Sin brought a curse upon man and a curse upon the earth. Sin corrupted the flesh body.

The reason the Lord wont just wave his hand or speak the word and have our slate wiped clean of sin and illness instantly is that it would erase our personality at the same time. And He loves you just the way you are. But sanctification takes time so that, we will survive it and be us.

I have been saved. That is the promise. I am being saved. That is the sanctification. I will be saved, when He comes and redeems my body. What's this got to do with it?

We do not wrestle against a flesh and blood enemy is what scripture says. But against pricipalities and powers, right? Evil spirits. So there's a spirit of pain, there is a spirit of infirmary, and certainly a spirit of confusion and a spirit of fear. What happens is, the spirit of pain or confusion will come and inflict some pain or confusion on them? Do you believe the pain is real? Yes the pain is real. That opens the door for the spirit to stay. Can a spirit of fear make someone experience a lot of anxiety? I bet they can. And when they accept that as a reality for themselves, it becomes reality. So it is very real and not imagined par se.

But! Let us not forget that we are in Christ and He gave us all authority over evil spirits in His name. It is a choice to reject an evil spirit of fear or whatever. Reaching out with the authority that has been given us in Christ Jesus name it can become as if it were an imagined dream. Because the name of the Lord is above all names. This is real and the Lord is all powerful and is certainly above schizophrenia or any of the disorders.

A person makes the choice to listen to the gospel of the doctor (Lol), or the Great Physician Himself. So it is really all about perspective. And whenever someone says ok I will trust the Lord on this and do what He said. This is the time that He was talking about when He said I will not leave you or forsake you. But the requirement is there, you have to get out of the boat. It is not easy! It is Not Easy!.

I think most of the people that has a mental ilness shows an similar amount of lacking in faith in proportion to the amount of mental problems that they have. If it were possible to tell the doctor to shut up, and to grab hold of trust in your Lord over what man has said. And Declare it with your mouth and believe it in your heart.

You know what that does? That puts the ball in the Lord's court! He either responds or He doesn't, but He has not failed me. I talk to my body and mind and so forth. I take medication for seizures but that's just my thorn in the side. It keeps me praying daily to Him and He likes that.

In other words...Jesus did not let Peter sink in the water! But Peter had to committ his weight to the water before he was, walking on water. So a shift in thinking and belief in the heart that Jesus is real and can do these things, and will. Speaking the words with authority will allow the heart to believe it. And God to hear it. God don't miss. He has been...last minute never late most of the time with me.

I have gotten out of the boat so to speak a few times now and, it felt so good to see that the Lord had it well in hand even before the prayer and came through. He's not lying! As much as I respect Doctor's education, they aint God.

All of sickness, disease, mental illness, all of it is more of a spiritual nature than a biological thing if one is in Christ and believes that God will respond to their faith and prayers. I bet most people that have mental illness of any sort either don't pray at all or very little.

So if they have faith in their worldly doctor, then their disorders are real.
If the person has enough cognizance to concept God in thought and speech and a sincere belief in their heart (!!) then it would be more like, oh that? We cast them out in Jesus name a few weeks ago.

That other phrase in the Lord's prayer, deliver us from evil...is a very significant phrase for Christians also. It means, any type of evil scheme or firey darts or anything evil anytime anywhere.

That's a good word study. When I learned that I figure I could stop a charging grizzly bear with that. I bet I could turn the bear! (Not I, but the Lord with me!).
 
wondering said:
PS
I was talking about psychologists, but hey, sometimes people need them too.
They DO tell you things I don't agree with, but if they help someone, it's good for the sick person.
Click to expand...

I think Psychologists and Psychiatrists are pretty much in the same boat. They probably do provide a small number of people enough relief through pills & wotnot to function better in a (broken) world. But is largely a moneymaking control scam.

It comes down to what you believe. First you must believe. Ok, I believe, I place my trust in you...when you do this, He responds. For me, it was last minute but not late! I guess He likes to see us endure our faith for Him for as long as possible?! (I could start telling testimonies, lol).

The doctors are wrong in that, it is not psychological or medical problem with the patient. They just spin that stuff to make more money and try to look big and smart. (HA!) It is literally spiritual warfare. Why was the baby born with downs syndrome? Maybe someone in her ancestral line was a witch or something and had the strong demonic attachment within them?

How many different kinds of demons are there? IIRC, I think the list has 2000 (?) on it. I've heard of people who had (cancer or whatever) and they got healed at a church healing service sometime. Praise the Lord! Then a week later the symptoms come back...and sometimes they have lost their healing and it came back worse. Because the did not hold on to their belief. They felt the symptom and believed it, when they should have spoke to it in authority and declare it is a lie. Those people keep their healing!

It is all about belief and unbelief. We are all in the middle of a war right now. A very real spiritual war. So stop moaning how bad you are (and making it come true!) and start believing to the goodness and power of the Almighty.

Tell those Psyche doctors, I don't believe you Doc, and stop treating the symptoms but not the cause, because the name of the Lord is above all names, everything must bow to the Lord Jesus. Cancer, Schizo disorder, anxiety disorder, bipolar, all of them would go away if the people had belief in their hearts.
 
Edward said:
Not in real life. I have a cousin who was very normal and his girlfriend pushed him out of a 2nd story window and he hit the ground hard and caused him to be, non finctional for the most part. He can't live on his own, he's like an 8 yr old kid now. But it's not mental, he got messed up in the fall somehow.



No, I do not think that mental illness is imagined, as in, not real. This goes back to Eden. Sin brought a curse upon man and a curse upon the earth. Sin corrupted the flesh body.

The reason the Lord wont just wave his hand or speak the word and have our slate wiped clean of sin and illness instantly is that it would erase our personality at the same time. And He loves you just the way you are. But sanctification takes time so that, we will survive it and be us.

I have been saved. That is the promise. I am being saved. That is the sanctification. I will be saved, when He comes and redeems my body. What's this got to do with it?

We do not wrestle against a flesh and blood enemy is what scripture says. But against pricipalities and powers, right? Evil spirits. So there's a spirit of pain, there is a spirit of infirmary, and certainly a spirit of confusion and a spirit of fear. What happens is, the spirit of pain or confusion will come and inflict some pain or confusion on them? Do you believe the pain is real? Yes the pain is real. That opens the door for the spirit to stay. Can a spirit of fear make someone experience a lot of anxiety? I bet they can. And when they accept that as a reality for themselves, it becomes reality. So it is very real and not imagined par se.

But! Let us not forget that we are in Christ and He gave us all authority over evil spirits in His name. It is a choice to reject an evil spirit of fear or whatever. Reaching out with the authority that has been given us in Christ Jesus name it can become as if it were an imagined dream. Because the name of the Lord is above all names. This is real and the Lord is all powerful and is certainly above schizophrenia or any of the disorders.

A person makes the choice to listen to the gospel of the doctor (Lol), or the Great Physician Himself. So it is really all about perspective. And whenever someone says ok I will trust the Lord on this and do what He said. This is the time that He was talking about when He said I will not leave you or forsake you. But the requirement is there, you have to get out of the boat. It is not easy! It is Not Easy!.

I think most of the people that has a mental ilness shows an similar amount of lacking in faith in proportion to the amount of mental problems that they have. If it were possible to tell the doctor to shut up, and to grab hold of trust in your Lord over what man has said. And Declare it with your mouth and believe it in your heart.

You know what that does? That puts the ball in the Lord's court! He either responds or He doesn't, but He has not failed me. I talk to my body and mind and so forth. I take medication for seizures but that's just my thorn in the side. It keeps me praying daily to Him and He likes that.

In other words...Jesus did not let Peter sink in the water! But Peter had to committ his weight to the water before he was, walking on water. So a shift in thinking and belief in the heart that Jesus is real and can do these things, and will. Speaking the words with authority will allow the heart to believe it. And God to hear it. God don't miss. He has been...last minute never late most of the time with me.

I have gotten out of the boat so to speak a few times now and, it felt so good to see that the Lord had it well in hand even before the prayer and came through. He's not lying! As much as I respect Doctor's education, they aint God.

All of sickness, disease, mental illness, all of it is more of a spiritual nature than a biological thing if one is in Christ and believes that God will respond to their faith and prayers. I bet most people that have mental illness of any sort either don't pray at all or very little.

So if they have faith in their worldly doctor, then their disorders are real.
If the person has enough cognizance to concept God in thought and speech and a sincere belief in their heart (!!) then it would be more like, oh that? We cast them out in Jesus name a few weeks ago.

That other phrase in the Lord's prayer, deliver us from evil...is a very significant phrase for Christians also. It means, any type of evil scheme or firey darts or anything evil anytime anywhere.

That's a good word study. When I learned that I figure I could stop a charging grizzly bear with that. I bet I could turn the bear! (Not I, but the Lord with me!).
Click to expand...
Hi Ed,
It's great to see such confidence.
I don't have the confidence you do.
Because I see that God does not heal everything, and this would be quite impossible since healing is a miracle and I really don't think God wants to spend all His time doing miracles.

This world is the system He has set up. We live in it.
If God would want to do miracles to fight the evil, the it would have been easier for Him to just set up a world system WITH NO EVIL in it. But, alas, evil is here to stay. At least for now.

You take medication for seizures.
So your confidence is not 100% in God.
If you get pneumonia you would take a strong antibiotic so you could keep breathing.


I think we're just kidding ourselves.
What you envision is not going to happen.
We all have to die one day, and get sick before that.

I DO believe a miracle could happen...but it's a miracle.

Also, I don't believe there's a "spirit" for each evil.
A spirit for sickness, a spirit for smoking, etc.
Evil is evil. It's prapogated by satan and his angel helpers.

Possession is real, and I don't like to say that we're possessed by the spirit of sickness.
This is not what happens in reality.

So, why doesn't God heal my poor young friend that has schizophrenia?
You say it's HIS fault because his faith is not strong enough?

But Jesus said we only need the faith of a mustard seed. They're very small, as you know.
Any amount of faith is salvific, any amount of faith should be enough to heal if it's true that we trust in Jesus and He will care for us. And also the birds and the flowers in the field.

Something is amiss in your theological belief.

Mental sickness is real.
Do you know about OCD?
It's caused by a block in the brain and is not imaginary.
Depression is caused by a shortage of a chemical in the brain.

I like to go by what persons state about their physical and mental situation.
I would never downgrade anything they tell me.
We each feel our own pain.
 
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