Help with discernment

[GodsGrace]

I think Psychologists and Psychiatrists are pretty much in the same boat. They probably do provide a small number of people enough relief through pills & wotnot to function better in a (broken) world. But is largely a moneymaking control scam.

It comes down to what you believe. First you must believe. Ok, I believe, I place my trust in you...when you do this, He responds. For me, it was last minute but not late! I guess He likes to see us endure our faith for Him for as long as possible?! (I could start telling testimonies, lol).

The doctors are wrong in that, it is not psychological or medical problem with the patient. They just spin that stuff to make more money and try to look big and smart. (HA!) It is literally spiritual warfare. Why was the baby born with downs syndrome? Maybe someone in her ancestral line was a witch or something and had the strong demonic attachment within them?

How many different kinds of demons are there? IIRC, I think the list has 2000 (?) on it. I've heard of people who had (cancer or whatever) and they got healed at a church healing service sometime. Praise the Lord! Then a week later the symptoms come back...and sometimes they have lost their healing and it came back worse. Because the did not hold on to their belief. They felt the symptom and believed it, when they should have spoke to it in authority and declare it is a lie. Those people keep their healing!

It is all about belief and unbelief. We are all in the middle of a war right now. A very real spiritual war. So stop moaning how bad you are (and making it come true!) and start believing to the goodness and power of the Almighty.

Tell those Psyche doctors, I don't believe you Doc, and stop treating the symptoms but not the cause, because the name of the Lord is above all names, everything must bow to the Lord Jesus. Cancer, Schizo disorder, anxiety disorder, bipolar, all of them would go away if the people had belief in their hearts.

I agree that we're in a war.
A spiritual war.

But the symptoms are caused by physical factors.
I guess we just don't have belief in our hearts...

 

[D-D-W]

Well - I have been around many believers and fellowships over the years who are openly HOSTILE to anything having to do with psychology.

Some say psychology is nothing but a tool of the devil; and only God can heal mental problems.
Others said there is no such thing as mental illness.
And yet others say that mental illness is always demon possession.

I am leery of anyone who believes any of that. BUT - and it is a large objection - human based psychology can only go so far as there is SOMETIMES a spiritual or demonic element that cannot be discerned by human means. Unless one is well-versed in the use of the spiritual gift of Discerning of Spirits, [1 Cor 12.10] one cannot tell if there is a spiritual element or not.

 

[Edward]

Also, I don't believe there's a "spirit" for each evil.
A spirit for sickness, a spirit for smoking, etc.
Evil is evil. It's prapogated by satan and his angel helpers.

So the girls tesimony about the spirit of fear was her lying? Does the scriptures lie when it mentions specific spirits, like a deaf and dumb spirit, an unclean spirit and so for like that?

So, why doesn't God heal my poor young friend that has schizophrenia?
You say it's HIS fault because his faith is not strong enough?

But Jesus said we only need the faith of a mustard seed. They're very small, as you know.
Any amount of faith is salvific, any amount of faith should be enough to heal if it's true that we trust in Jesus and He will care for us. And also the birds and the flowers in the field.

Something is amiss in your theological belief.

I didn't say faith is lacking. I said belief, and the two are significantly different.

Well - I have been around many believers and fellowships over the years who are openly HOSTILE to anything having to do with psychology.

Some say psychology is nothing but a tool of the devil; and only God can heal mental problems.
Others said there is no such thing as mental illness.
And yet others say that mental illness is always demon possession.

I am leery of anyone who believes any of that. BUT - and it is a large objection - human based psychology can only go so far as there is SOMETIMES a spiritual or demonic element that cannot be discerned by human means. Unless one is well-versed in the use of the spiritual gift of Discerning of Spirits, [1 Cor 12.10] one cannot tell if there is a spiritual element or not.

I did not say it was always demon possession. Demons can harass people or put thoughts in their head and pain in their bodies. It's up to us to recognize that it is a problem of a spiritual nature. Like, sin was introduced to the world and that brought a curse upon the worls which included our flesh bodies. From what I understand, sin in a persons life can affect their body. It starts as a seed then grows into a root then they say cancer, and if the people believe they will die, they will. Have you ever heard of a cancer healing testimony? They are all over the place! They reached for the Lord instead of the death.

 

[Edward]

I DO believe a miracle could happen...but it's a miracle.

Also, I don't believe there's a "spirit" for each evil.
A spirit for sickness, a spirit for smoking, etc.
Evil is evil. It's prapogated by satan and his angel helpers.

Do you believe in evil spirits? For real I mean.

 

[Edward]

Matthew 10:7-9
7 Go and announce to them that the Kingdom of Heaven is near.[a] 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cure those with leprosy, and cast out demons. Give as freely as you have received!

9 “Don’t take any money in your money belts—no gold, silver, or even copper coins.../NLT

This is Jesus giving the Apostles their charge to Christian duty, is it not? Is Scizophrenia not on the list here? It seems to me that it is prolly included with (heal the sick) Leprosy is a decidedly physical ailment, right? No problem for the name above all names.

Has you scizophrenic friend ever spoken to the spirit of scizophrenia and commanded it to leave in Jesus name?
Has he ever prayed to the Lord to reveal to him what spirit causes him problems? If no, it couldn't hurt to do so!

He gave us all authority to do these things. Some spirits are different though and don't go out so easy. Some will, others only go out with much prayer & fasting. According to Jesus, these evil spirits are real and afflict mankind daily. That's the main thing that Jesus did in His ministry on earth. He went around casting out demons...

They didn't go away.

 

[Free]

I think Psychologists and Psychiatrists are pretty much in the same boat. They probably do provide a small number of people enough relief through pills & wotnot to function better in a (broken) world. But is largely a moneymaking control scam.

They have their legitimate place in treating mental disorders, whether through medication (mainly psychiatrists) or counseling, just as do doctors in treating the physical.

Cancer, Schizo disorder, anxiety disorder, bipolar, all of them would go away if the people had belief in their hearts.

This is poor, dangerous theology. Putting these things on a lack of people's faith is not only false but exceedingly damaging. It is one of the reasons I left the Pentecostal church; that, and a severe lack of discernment about what is of God and what is not.

 

[Edward]

They have their legitimate place in treating mental disorders, whether through medication (mainly psychiatrists) or counseling, just as do doctors in treating the physical.

That is partially true. When God granted to Moses the concession of divore from Marriage, it was a concession unto man to not have to stay with a cheater of the marriage bed. In the same way, the Lord has given concessions of medical industry treatments and reliefs from certain pills and such, because of their hard heartedness and unbelief. But the Lord still sees them suffering so has compassion on them,

Bottome line, Some pills are good. Some treatments are good. Others are money making lies.

This is poor, dangerous theology. Putting these things on a lack of people's faith is not only false but exceedingly damaging. It is one of the reasons I left the Pentecostal church; that, and a severe lack of discernment about what is of God and what is not.

I guess you didn't comprehend what I posted. Again, it is not about faith! It is about unbelief. Please understand that. If you can.

 

[Free]

I guess you didn't comprehend what I posted. Again, it is not about faith! It is about unbelief. Please understand that. If you can.

Stop with the personal attacks. So, if it's about unbelief, what must one believe?

 

[GodsGrace]

Do you believe in evil spirits? For real I mean.

OOOOOH yes.

If God exists.
Satan exists.

 

[Edward]

OOOOOH yes.

If God exists.
Satan exists.

Ok. So if it is true, then why are you unable to acceot the fact that it doesn't have to do with a ailment or chemical imbalance, it is to do with spiritual attacks?

 

[GodsGrace]

So the girls tesimony about the spirit of fear was her lying? Does the scriptures lie when it mentions specific spirits, like a deaf and dumb spirit, an unclean spirit and so for like that?

No I don't believe the girl was lying.
Because we state something that is our belief but may not be right, does not mean we're lying.

I don't know that there are specific demons in the bible.
A deaf and dumb spirit?
And so forth...
Could you provide some scripture or explain better.

I didn't say faith is lacking. I said belief, and the two are significantly different.

Yes, faith and belief is different.
Most of the times I hear that FAITH is lacking and so God cannot work His miracles.
I think we also need to BELIEVE that the healing is possible.
Jesus removed some persons from the scene at Jairus' daughter's "healing", from death.
I was taught that it was because they did not believe and they were hindering Him.

BTW, I also believe some could be healed that don't even believe in God.
This could happen for various reasons...not the least being a great message from God so that they could testify to His being real.

I did not say it was always demon possession. Demons can harass people or put thoughts in their head and pain in their bodies. It's up to us to recognize that it is a problem of a spiritual nature. Like, sin was introduced to the world and that brought a curse upon the worls which included our flesh bodies. From what I understand, sin in a persons life can affect their body. It starts as a seed then grows into a root then they say cancer, and if the people believe they will die, they will. Have you ever heard of a cancer healing testimony? They are all over the place! They reached for the Lord instead of the death.

I agree with all of the above.

I didn't mean that YOU posted about demon possession.
That was ME posting to you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok. So if it is true, then why are you unable to acceot the fact that it doesn't have to do with a ailment or chemical imbalance, it is to do with spiritual attacks?

Because Ed, we cannot deny science just because we have faith in God.

Science has made many discoveries lately.
Some ailments are imaginary...some are not.
Doctors didn't understand OCD. They now know that it is caused by a block in the frontal lobe of the brain.
It's a PHYSICAL disorder, but it's in the brain so we call it a mental disorder.

Depression is a chemical imbalance.
It could ALSO maybe be demonic oppression (oppression), but pills must be tried to really know.

We can also be spiritually attacked.
Did you know that before an exorcism, all physical reasons for the symptoms must be excluded?
First you do the physical...
Then the spiritual.
(usually it's physical).

 

[Christ_empowered]

I’ve experienced such cruelty from the mental health industry. I started with a 120 IQ estimate which was apparently too intelligent…that’s part of what led to the deliberate over medicated nonsense. And now..,

God is Love. I’m healthy and normal in important ways but the schizoaffective or whatever remains an issue. The main treatment is almost always the major tranquilizers…antipsychotics. Those same drugs destine before Jesus but now my IQ estimate is 145 or so and…?

Keeping med checks as infrequent as possible helps me personally. That and trying to keep the tranquilizer dosage low enough to avoid drug induced heart depressive episodes and cognitive deficits. The vitamins and antioxidants seem to help me tolerate the modern tranquilizer better…

But then I see these obviously miserable often clearly sedated people in the waiting room and the receptionist is snarky and random counselors pick at me and…?

I just don’t understand…

 

[Edward]

We can also be spiritually attacked.
Did you know that before an exorcism, all physical reasons for the symptoms must be excluded?
First you do the physical...
Then the spiritual.
(usually it's physical).

So, seek ye first the Kingdom of God would not apply to this situation?

Where is that at?

 

[evenifigoalone]

All meds come with risks. I take meds for diabetes, blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. I take more meds for physical ailments than I do mental ones. All of them can have bad side effects and some of them may have other affects that are not really talked about.

I wasn't sure if I "really needed" the mental health meds for the longest time. But I enjoy not feeling anxious for zero logical reasons. The meds help me to function like someone with a "normal" amount of anxiety. I have days with mild to moderate anxiety when I take the meds, but most of the days are minimal at most and they keep the severe days away entirely.


At the outpatient clinic I go to, I once saw someone being escorted by the police to the inpatient facility in the next city. The workers there were being as kind as they could to her. I have heard of mentally ill people being treated roughly by the police themselves (including someone who's a friend of mine), but that's a police training issue that needs to be fixed.
Unless someone has very severe forms of mental illness, they typically have options in the clinics or Drs they see. Don't like your Dr, clinic, therapist, etc - they can be fired and another one sought. It's harder, I imagine, when you are ordered by the state to receive treatment and basically have to go where they tell you to.

 

[Edward]

I don't know that there are specific demons in the bible.
A deaf and dumb spirit?
And so forth...
Could you provide some scripture or explain better.

That one can be found in Mark 9:24-26
24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

26 And the spirit cried, and rent him sore, and came out of him: and he was as one dead; insomuch that many said, He is dead.../

There is many different kinds of evil spirits and I have scriptures for a lot of them. Like,

A spirit of Divination: Acts 16:16-18

Spirit of Infirmity, Luke 13:10-13
10 One Sabbath day as Jesus was teaching in a synagogue, 11 he saw a woman who had been crippled by an evil spirit. She had been bent double for eighteen years and was unable to stand up straight. 12 When Jesus saw her, he called her over and said, “Dear woman, you are healed of your sickness!” 13 Then he touched her, and instantly she could stand straight. How she praised God!.../

Should she have went to the Doctor instead?

 

[Edward]

Jesus could not do many miracles in His home town because of their unbelief. That is scripture, ok?

Now, someone please explain to us the difference between faith and belief.

It is not a faith problem! All of us have been given the measure of faith. So no one is lacking faith. Unbelief is the problem.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Finding a provider who will take me is an issue. Part coverage issues…private insurance is almost required self pay is often preferred…part my…well…problems with providers in years past complete with litigation.

So basically I’m stuck at the clinic unless my parents feel inclined to self pay for a place that will actually take me as a patient.

 

[Free]

Jesus could not do many miracles in His home town because of their unbelief. That is scripture, ok?

Now, someone please explain to us the difference between faith and belief.

It is not a faith problem! All of us have been given the measure of faith. So no one is lacking faith. Unbelief is the problem.

Unbelief in what?

 

[Edward]

Unbelief in what?

Matthew 13:58
And so he did only a few miracles there because of their unbelief.../NLT

Now that is usually the verse quoted but let's look at some more of it and perhaps it will shine some light on it for you.

Matthew 13:54-58
54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.

58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.../NLT

It sure sounds to me that their unbelief was in Jesus and His power to do mighty things. They grew up around Him and so had difficulty recognizing Him as God.

So, your answer is, Jesus.