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His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !

FreeGrace said:
Yep. He died for everyone, as already PROVEN from 3 verses. 2 Cor 5:14 and 15 and Heb 2:9.
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None of those scriptures says Christ died for everyone without exception. All for whom Christ died shall be made righteous Rom 5:19. Now are all made righteous without exception ? No, so Christ death was not for all without exception.
 
FreeGrace said:
If you want to use that verse, here it is:
"For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous."

Are you now a universalist? You need to explain verses that don't say what you claim.

If one considers the logic of using your verse, then the "many" who were "made sinners" by Adam would ONLY be the elect, leaving all others sinless. Ha.

One must use BOTH sides of the verse, not just cherry pick the part that one thinks supports their views.


Of course Christ gets all the credit. But Heb 1:3 doesn't say what is being claimed. Not even close.

"The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."

The phrase "purification for sins" refers to the FACT that He paid the price for all sin. Which results in Christ having obtained the free gift of eternal life for everyone, which is those He died for, as already PROVEN from 3 verses that actually SAY that.

Unlike your view that Christ only died for some. Where is that verse?
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There should be "likes" in this forum. But anyway..............LIKE.
 
FreeGrace said:
What has been missed is that because "the death of Christ has did (sic) it all", there is nothing more anyone can do but ACCEPT what He has done. Which is what faith in Him is about.

But your theology eliminates the need for faith and believing. Which is unbiblical.
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LIKE.And :thumbsup
 
OzSpen said:
gr8grace3,

I'm of the view that we shouldn't quote Romans 5:19 without the preceding verse:

'18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men. 19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous' (Rom 5:18-19 ESV).​

However, on the surface, vv 18-19 seem to proclaim contradictory teaching:
  • One act of trespass (Adam) led to condemnation for all people;
  • One act of righteousness (Christ) led to justification for all people;
  • One man's (Adam's) disobedience made 'many' (not all) sinners;
  • One man's (Christ's) obedience made 'many' righteous.
Do we have contradictions here? Perhaps it has to do with the meaning of 'righteous'.:twocents

Oz
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Don't miss "leads to Justification." Christ eliminated the sin problem so that all men can believe upon him for salvation. Acts 16:31

Adams sin was all encompassing to all men. Christ's death eliminated that sin barrier for all men so that ALL men have the ability to believe and be saved. It is why not ONE man can stand before God and say, "I didn't know.".......I will draw ALL men to Myself.

No contradiction. All men were judged and condemned under Adam(A blessing in disguise) so that all men have the opportunity to believe and be saved.

~~ A blessing in disguise~~condemn all men through Adams sin, to make salvation available to all men. The genius of God!
 
beloved57 said:
Yes they do. Rom 5:19 says that by the obedience of one, not by two,many shall be made righteous.

Scripture says that by Christ death/offering of Him self, they were perfected and sanctified Heb 10:10,14
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Please learn to be courteous and back-quote so that we know the person to whom you are replying.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Don't miss "leads to Justification." Christ eliminated the sin problem so that all men can believe upon him for salvation. Acts 16:31

Adams sin was all encompassing to all men. Christ's death eliminated that sin barrier for all men so that ALL men have the ability to believe and be saved. It is why not ONE man can stand before God and say, "I didn't know.".......I will draw ALL men to Myself.

No contradiction. All men were judged and condemned under Adam(A blessing in disguise) so that all men have the opportunity to believe and be saved.

~~ A blessing in disguise~~condemn all men through Adams sin, to make salvation available to all men. The genius of God!
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Agreed!:woot3 But that's not how some on CFnet see it.

I'm of the view that when I proclaim John 3:16 (ESV) to my neighbour or on the street that I can honestly say to that person, please believe in the Good News of Jesus Christ. Otherwise, an honest person has to say, 'Believe in Jesus Christ, but I must warn you that some of you won't be able to believe because God has caused it to be that way - and I don't know who you people are'.

I would never become engaged in sharing the Gospel if I had to put that kind of restriction on the proclamation.

Oz
 
beloved57 said:
None of those scriptures says Christ died for everyone without exception.
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Seriously? The words "all" and "everyone" are clear enough for me. And you've failed to show from any of the contexts from those verses that either "all" or "everyone" cannot mean exactly that; everyone.

When those words don't mean the entire human race, the writer ALWAYS makes that clear in the context.
 
Fg

I willmake one thing very clear: the notion that Christ didn't die for everyone is not found in Scripture. Which renders the title of this thread null and void.
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You just ignored my scripture proof that those Christ died for are made righteous by His obedience alone Rom 5:19!
 
FreeGrace said:
Seriously? The words "all" and "everyone" are clear enough for me. And you've failed to show from any of the contexts from those verses that either "all" or "everyone" cannot mean exactly that; everyone.

When those words don't mean the entire human race, the writer ALWAYS makes that clear in the context.
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All and everyone is fine, meaning that Christ died for everyone He died for. Again everyone or all He died for were made righteous by His obedience alone Rom 5:19. Now are all without exception made righteous ? No, of course not.
 
OK...
Let's cut down on the unproductive "chatter" and make some reasoned, logical proofs and arguments.
 
beloved57 said:
This is where false religion goes dreadfully wrong and shows all manner of disdain and dishonor to the accomplishment of the death of Christ alone for sinners. They don't believe as to the Testimony of scripture, that those Christ died for, by His Death alone for them, apart from any obedience, faith, repentance of their own, but even as they are ungodly rebel sinners like other men and women by nature, that by His death alone they are made righteous, and totally Justified before God without any one sin laid to their charge. Now scriptures that validate this Truth are as follows, all for whom Christ died, by His death alone have had all their sins before God purged away, Heb 1:3

who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our ("our" here is referring to those who repent) sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

You see that ? By Himself alone, those He died for (, purged their sins. That word purged is the greek word katharismós and means:

cleansing, purifying, purification, literal, ceremonial, or moral; met: expiation. (Defining the Gr. purge made no difference in it's meaning

Its a cleansing/purification which results from God removing undesirable admixtures (eliminating impurities). Its

a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ,. Hence not one charge of sin can be charged to any sinner Christ died for, as so intimates Rom 8:33-34 (There is no condemnation TO THEM who are IN Christ Jesus WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, but AFTER THE SPIRIT. It is true that Christ died for all sins, But you have to take hold of it, it is not by fiat. I'm guessing you are a universalist.

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. This applies to the elect of God.

You see that ? The non charge of sin is based upon the fact that Christ died, and so dying He purged their sins, and cleansed them from all guilt of their sins, which freely Justifies them while yet they themselves are yet remaining ungodly by nature ! This is a Precious Truth false religion which glorifies man cannot receive.
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Not one born again believer ever glorifies himself, we are glorified in Christ. But It sounds like you are saying that all men and women everywhere are void of their sins and will enter the kingdom whether they believe Christ or not? Let me know if this is what you are implying?
 
beloved57 said:
Fg

You just ignored my scripture proof that those Christ died for are made righteous by His obedience alone Rom 5:19!
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On the contrary, your theory has been refuted from other Scripture, showing that your understanding of Rom 5:19 isn't correct.

You've still not shown from Scripture that Christ died only for some. And I've shown from 3 verses that He died for all, everyone. If those words can be shown in context to only refer to some specific group, be my guest.
 
FreeGrace said:
On the contrary, your theory has been refuted from other Scripture, showing that your understanding of Rom 5:19 isn't correct.

You've still not shown from Scripture that Christ died only for some. And I've shown from 3 verses that He died for all, everyone. If those words can be shown in context to only refer to some specific group, be my guest.
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Sure it's correct, those Christ died for are made righteous by His obedience, the obedience of one Rom 5:19. Now are all without exception made righteous? No, so Christ death was not for all without exception, a simple deduction.
 
FreeGrace said:
Such a circular statement has no meaning. Without clear and unambiguous clarification, the words "all" and "everyone" means exactly that. You've failed to show otherwise.
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Sure it has meaning, Christ tasted death for everyone He died for. And all He tasted death for were sanctified and Perfected forever Heb 10:10,14. Now are all without exception sanctified and Perfected forever? No!
 
beloved57 said:
Sure it's correct, those Christ died for are made righteous by His obedience, the obedience of one Rom 5:19. Now are all without exception made righteous? No, so Christ death was not for all without exception, a simple deduction.
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Your deduction is false on its face.

3 Scriptures plainly tell us who Christ died for: all and everyone. And you've still not even attempted to show from any of the contexts HOW those words do not apply to the entire human race.
 
Closing this thread for a couple days for some cooling off time. When you post a view that is counter to others' views, provide the Scripture that supports your claim per the Forum guidelines.
 
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