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His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !

Sinthesis said:
That scripture emphasizes that It is the Risen Christ who makes intercession for us, not some dead christ.
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That scripture indicates that those Christ died for don't be charged with sin, because they have been purged away Heb 1:3.
 
reba said:
Now them Christ died for and purged away their sins Heb 1:3, also permanently sanctifying them Heb 10:10, His death also perfected them forever Heb 10:14 who do you consider their and them to be ?

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

And them that are sanctified are also them He died for Heb 10:10.

Now since all men without exception are perfected forever, Christ's death could not have been for all men without exception, which the bible never teaches any way ! He died for His Sheep Jn 10:11,15 !

How do you read John 3 16,17,18?
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

This passage does not say... For God so loved the world, His sheep that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever which ever sheep believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world sheep through him might be saved.

He The sheep that believeth on him is not condemned: but he The sheep that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
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I'm not discussing Jn 3. That is a diversion from what I want to discuss.
 
beloved57 said:
I'm not discussing Jn 3. That is a diversion from what I want to discuss.
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well maybe John 3 16 etc just doesn't fit in wiht your brand of theology... but is sure is scripture .. I wish to discuss John 3 16 etc ... in light of what you have to say.. ... It is not a diversion it is a good part of why Jesus went to the Cross.. Leaving out passages cuz they dont fit where we want them is false teaching..
 
beloved57 said:
jlb



Its not a process, it is stated to be by the death of Christ. And they are permanently sanctified by it !
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For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

He Himself is the final offering we will ever need, however we need it everyday, that we may come to God and confess our sins, and be cleansed as often as we need this... while we are being sanctified.


JLB
 
Not_Now.Soon said:
And that no one can accept Jesus unless His Father brought them to Jesus. John 6:44. This unfortunate reality suggests that there are those who won't be saved.
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NNS,

John 6:44 (ESV) states, 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.'

How many are drawn? Jesus told us: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself' (John 12:32 ESV).

So why do not all people since the crucifixion and resurrection come to faith in Christ?

Oz
 
beloved57 said:
Now those whom Christ died for, their sins have been purged away. That cant be said of all mankind without exception, since some shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Its impossible for folk Christ died for to die in their sins since they have been purged away already !
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To the contrary, Scripture affirms:
  • Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
  • John 1:29: "The next day John saw Jesus coming towards him and said, 'Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.'"
  • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  • John 4:42: "They said to the woman, 'We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.'"
  • Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Romans 5:6: 'You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.'
  • 2 Corinthians 5:14-15: 'For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.'
  • 1 Timothy 2:3-4: 'This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.'
  • 1 Timothy 2:5-6: 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time.'
  • 1 Timothy 4:10: 'We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."
  • Titus 2:11: 'For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.'
  • Hebrews 2:9: 'But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone."
  • 2 Peter 3:9: 'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.'
  • 1 John 2:2: "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." [Here Scripture notes the distinction between 'ours' and 'the whole world.]
  • 1 John 4:14: 'And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.'
There's no limited atonement taught in these verses.
Oz
 
beloved57 said:
What did I post, let's start with that.
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You've already been told by some of us that your post is not clear; it's confusing. But you aren't listening.

Please tell us in one brief paragraph what you want to discuss. By brief, I mean no more than 3 short sentences.
 
OzSpen said:
To the contrary, Scripture affirms:
  • Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."
  • John 1:29: "The next day John saw Jesus coming towards him and said, 'Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world.'"
  • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
  • John 4:42: "They said to the woman, 'We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.'"
  • Acts 2:21: "And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
  • Romans 5:6: 'You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly.'
  • 2 Corinthians 5:14-15: 'For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.'
  • 1 Timothy 2:3-4: 'This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.'
  • 1 Timothy 2:5-6: 'For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given in its proper time.'
  • 1 Timothy 4:10: 'We have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe."
  • Titus 2:11: 'For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.'
  • Hebrews 2:9: 'But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone."
  • 2 Peter 3:9: 'The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.'
  • 1 John 2:2: "He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." [Here Scripture notes the distinction between 'ours' and 'the whole world.]
  • 1 John 4:14: 'And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.'
There's no limited atonement taught in these verses.
Oz
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I have no problem with any of them scriptures, but you are evading the points I posted !
 
beloved57 said:
I have no problem with any of them scriptures, but you are evading the points I posted !
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So are you saying that you do not support limited atonement?

You were the one who stated: 'Now those whom Christ died for, their sins have been purged away. That cant be said of all mankind without exception, since some shall die in their sins in unbelief Jn 8:24'.

The facts are that I provided a list of Scriptures to confirm that Christ died FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. And you have the audacity to say that you have no problem with these Scriptures?:dancing

Oz
 
jlb

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.Hebrews 10:14
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Correct, and that cannot be all without exception. Are all perfected forever and being sanctified by the death of Christ ? No. So He did not die for all without exception !
 
beloved57 said:
ozpen

Not one of those scriptures say that !
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Christ died for the whole world means that his death was for the benefit of the whole world and not only for the elect.

1 John 2:2 (ESV) refutes your view that Jesus died only for the elect: 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world'.

Oz
 
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beloved57 said:
jlb



Correct, and that cannot be all without exception. Are all perfected forever and being sanctified by the death of Christ ? No. So He did not die for all without exception !
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The scripture I quoted show us that we "are being sanctified", which denotes a process.

Jesus died for all, those who believe will be saved.


JLB
 
Sinthesis said:
I perceive this thread is another attempt to push the problematic ideas of limited atonement and irresistible grace. Those two ideas only work within a particular context, otherwise they are plainly contradicted by John 3:16 among other verses.
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Bingo!! ;)
 
JLB said:
The scripture I quoted show us that we "are being sanctified", which denotes a process.

Jesus died for all, those who believe will be saved.

JLB
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JLB,

That is very well said and stated so briefly. :clap

Oz
 
The problem with this thread is not the OP, but the very title of the thread:

"His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !"

As a number of posters are learning, the poster's theology is most definitely going down the road of extreme Calvinism; limited atonement plus a number of very odd ideas. Such as anyone being justified by His death alone. That statement purposely leaves out the biblical requirement of faith in Jesus Christ for justification.

And the statement is totally without any support from Scripture. As in, there are NO verses that state that one is justified by His death ALONE, much LESS that ONLY "some of the ungodly" are justified by His death.

Pure 5 point Calvinism. Nothing less here.

Oz did a good job on listing verses in support of unlimited atonement. But there are 3 that really "knock it out of the park", so to speak.

2 Cor 5:14,15
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for ALL, therefore all died;
15 and He died for ALL, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Heb 2:9
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Couldn't be more clear; Jesus Christ died for "all", or "everyone". Plainly stated. And I know from experience from another forum, the poster won't ever explain himself, or defend his own position. All I've seen is a repetition of a few verses that he's convinced support his views, without so much as any kind of reason why.

 
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