His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !

[ezrider]

Correct, and that cannot be all without exception. Are all perfected forever and being sanctified by the death of Christ ? No. So He did not die for all without exception !

2 Timothy 2:11-14
It is a faithful saying:For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him:if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. What does this passage mean to you?

 

[beloved57]

The problem with this thread is not the OP, but the very title of the thread:

"His Death alone Justifies the Ungodly, some of them !"

As a number of posters are learning, the poster's theology is most definitely going down the road of extreme Calvinism; limited atonement plus a number of very odd ideas. Such as anyone being justified by His death alone. That statement purposely leaves out the biblical requirement of faith in Jesus Christ for justification.

And the statement is totally without any support from Scripture. As in, there are NO verses that state that one is justified by His death ALONE, much LESS that ONLY "some of the ungodly" are justified by His death.

Pure 5 point Calvinism. Nothing less here.

Oz did a good job on listing verses in support of unlimited atonement. But there are 3 that really "knock it out of the park", so to speak.

2 Cor 5:14,15
14 For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for ALL, therefore all died;
15 and He died for ALL, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.

Heb 2:9
But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

Couldn't be more clear; Jesus Christ died for "all", or "everyone". Plainly stated. And I know from experience from another forum, the poster won't ever explain himself, or defend his own position. All I've seen is a repetition of a few verses that he's convinced support his views, without so much as any kind of reason why.

Yes, Christ death only Justified some of the ungodly, for some people are still under Gods wrath and condemnation Jn 3:18,36 and , those Christ died for have been perfected forever by His death Heb 10:14, which cant be said for everyone without exception !

 

[reba]

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[beloved57]

To be cleansed from the guilt of sins by expiating death of Christ as per Heb 1:3, means Justification before God. That also means to be declared righteous before God, even though we be in unbelief and rebellion against God.

 

[Not_Now.Soon]

NNS,

John 6:44 (ESV) states, 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.'

How many are drawn? Jesus told us: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself' (John 12:32 ESV).

So why do not all people since the crucifixion and resurrection come to faith in Christ?

Oz

Thanks for the verse and the other verses added. Gives me something to think about and have hope for for those I love.

 

[OzSpen]

Like I said, none of the scriptures say that.

They do affirm unlimited atonement but your Calvinistic system won't allow for it.

 

[OzSpen]

No they dont, not one of them !

Those who want to agree with Scripture know this of Jesus' death: 'He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world' (1 John 2:2 ESV).

John is careful to note that Jesus is the propitiation (appeases the wrath of God)

• for our sins, BUT
• 'not for ours only', BUT ALSO,
• 'for the sins of the whole world'.

Nothing could be clearer. Jesus' death appeases the wrath of God for believers AND the 'sins of the whole world'.

That's Bible and not Calvinism.

Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes, Christ death only Justified some of the ungodly

To quote your own post, "Like I said, none of the scriptures say that."

for some people are still under Gods wrath and condemnation Jn 3:18,36

It would have been helpful if those specific verses had been read FIRST [edited, staff] because they directly REFUTE your views about WHY people are "under God's wrath and condemnation".

3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

3:36 - “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

These 2 verses tell us EXACTLY WHY people are under condemnation: failure to believe in Christ.

Your view puts Christ's death as the mode of salvation, but the Bible puts faith in Christ as the mode of salvation.

those Christ died for have been perfected forever by His death Heb 10:14, which cant be said for everyone without exception !

Just as you posted earlier, "none of the Scriptures say that".

Here's the verse: "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified."

Where does it say anything about dying here? And why assume that sanctification and reconciliation mean the same thing?

[edited, staff]

 

[beloved57]

Those who have chosen to believe, are being sanctified.

Those who have chosen not to believe, are not being sanctified.


JLB

Thats not what Heb 10:10 says. It reads they were sanctified by the Body of Christ, which is His Death. So you are adding to that scripture !

 

[FreeGrace]

To be cleansed from the guilt of sins by expiating death of Christ as per Heb 1:3, means Justification before God. That also means to be declared righteous before God, even though we be in unbelief and rebellion against God.

Only those who believe are "declared righteous", and this declaration comes FROM God.

Rom 4:5 - But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

That's how one is declared righteous by God; through faith in Christ. And then God declares the believer to be righteous, which is how one is credited as righteous.

 

[beloved57]

fg

Only those who believe are "declared righteous", and this declaration comes FROM God.

Thats not true, that statement is not found anywhere in Scripture. Those Christ died for are made righteous solely by His Obedience, the obedience of One Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word made, the greek word kathistēmi, means:

1. to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
   God delares righteous those Christ died for, His One obedience !

Also, as alrady stated, those Christ died for have been purged from their sins Heb 1:3, that Justification, because by the shedding of Christ blood, their sins have been washed away, they have been purged from all guilt, and made pure and holy by the blood and righteousness of Jesus Christ ! They did not do anything, Christ gets all the credit !

 

[beloved57]

The reality is that not one of the Scriptures quoted in your posts say what you claim.

Yes it does. Those Christ died for have been purged from their sins Heb 1:3 and they have been both sanctified and perfected forever, solely by His death, the offering of His Body Heb 10:10,14 !

 

[beloved57]

To quote your own post, "Like I said, none of the scriptures say that."


It would have been helpful if those specific verses had been read FIRST, before embarrassing yourself, because they directly REFUTE your views about WHY people are "under God's wrath and condemnation".

3:18 - “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

3:36 - “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

These 2 verses tell us EXACTLY WHY people are under condemnation: failure to believe in Christ.

Your view puts Christ's death as the mode of salvation, but the Bible puts faith in Christ as the mode of salvation.


Just as you posted earlier, "none of the Scriptures say that".

Here's the verse: "For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified."

Where does it say anything about dying here? And why assume that sanctification and reconciliation mean the same thing?

Seems you don't take your own medicine.

When it says by One Offering, that is talking about Christ's death, His dying !

 

[beloved57]

Justification/ being made righteous, is accomplished by Christs blood shed washes one from their sins Rev 1:5

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Heb 1:3
This washing purged away their guilt. The word purged in Heb 1:3 is the greek word katharismos and means:

1. a cleansing from the guilt of sins wrought by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ
   

So everyone Christ died for are Justified from the guilt of all their sins, solely by His Sacrifice alone, His one act of obedience !

 

[JLB]

Thats not what Heb 10:10 says. It reads they were sanctified by the Body of Christ, which is His Death. So you are adding to that scripture !

I was discussing what Hebrews 10:14 says.

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

Are being sanctified denotes a continual process.

You quoted another scripture I wasn't discussing, then claimed I am adding to the scripture I never mentioned.

How can I add to a scripture I have even mentioned?

Those who have chosen to believe the Gospel are sanctified by faith in Jesus Christ.

The unbelieving are not sanctified, because they do not have faith in Jesus Christ.

This is what Jesus Himself sent Paul to do.

16 But rise and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to make you a minister and a witness both of the things which you have seen and of the things which I will yet reveal to you. 17 I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18 to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.’
Acts 26:16-18


Those who choose to repent and turn to God are sanctified by faith in Jesus Christ.

This is the act of believing.



JLB

 

[beloved57]

jlb

I was discussing what Hebrews 10:14 says.

For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.Hebrews 10:14

Are being sanctified denotes a continual process.

I have no problem with that, since being sanctified is in the perfect tense back in Heb 10:10, however, its the death of Christ that effects it. Thats what the scripture is saying. Now does it effect that for everyone without exception ? The answer is clearly NO ! Thats a good reason to know that Christ's death is limited to only some, thats limited atonement !

 

[JLB]

fg



Thats not true, that statement is not found anywhere in Scripture. Those Christ died for are made righteous solely by His Obedience, the obedience of One Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The word made, the greek word kathistēmi, means:

1. 
   
   
   • to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be
     God delares righteous those Christ died for, His One obedience !

Also, as alrady stated, those Christ died for have been purged from their sins Heb 1:3, that Justification, because by the shedding of Christ blood, their sins have been washed away, they have been purged from all guilt, and made pure and holy by the blood and righteousness of Jesus Christ ! They did not do anything, Christ gets all the credit !

Paul makes clear at the beginning of Romans 5, it is by faith we are justified and have peace with God, so Romans 5 needs to be read in that context.

Those who have faith in Him, which is to say, His obedience to die on the cross, are justified through this faith.

Those who don't believe are certainly not justified, for it is by faith that we are justified; made righteous.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2



JLB

 

[JLB]

jlb



I have no problem with that, since being sanctified is in the perfect tense back in Heb 10:10, however, its the death of Christ that effects it. Thats what the scripture is saying. Now does it effect that for everyone without exception ? The answer is clearly NO !

No!

Only those who choose to believe, does it effect sanctification.



JLB

 

[beloved57]

Paul makes clear at the beginning of Romans 5, it is by faith we are justified and have peace with God, so Romans 5 needs to be read in that context.

Those who have faith in Him, which is to say, His obedience to die on the cross, are justified through this faith.

Those who don't believe are certainly not justified, for it is by faith that we are justified; made righteous.

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1-2



JLB

So you are going to disregard Rom 5:19 and Heb 1:3 ?

 

[beloved57]

jlb

Only those who choose to believe, does it effect sanctification.

In fact, there not one scripture that says this, so its a invalid statement not supported by scripture !