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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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savedbygrace57
Guest
By Nature the Children of wrath even as others !
Paul writing to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 writes thusly
Eph 2:1-4
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even though by Nature the Elect, the Chosen are Children of wrath [deserving God's wrath] as others, they are nevertheless preserved under the Covenant of Grace, by that Grace given them in their Covenant Head Christ Jesus their Mediator before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
This Grace Given before the world began regards that Everlasting Covenant of Grace that Christ became the Surety of before the world began, and all them He represented, were given Grace in Him as He was their Head, and they His Spiritual Seed.
The elect of God , though by nature are prisoners and captives to satan, yet because of their Covenant Relationship in Christ, they are captives or prisoners of Hope ! God's elect are prisoners but their condition as such, though not known to them, is much different from others in the same condition. They are Covenant Prisoners,in a Covenant with God through their Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ.
The rest have no hope ! Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Paul writing to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4 writes thusly
Eph 2:1-4
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even though by Nature the Elect, the Chosen are Children of wrath [deserving God's wrath] as others, they are nevertheless preserved under the Covenant of Grace, by that Grace given them in their Covenant Head Christ Jesus their Mediator before the world began 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
This Grace Given before the world began regards that Everlasting Covenant of Grace that Christ became the Surety of before the world began, and all them He represented, were given Grace in Him as He was their Head, and they His Spiritual Seed.
The elect of God , though by nature are prisoners and captives to satan, yet because of their Covenant Relationship in Christ, they are captives or prisoners of Hope ! God's elect are prisoners but their condition as such, though not known to them, is much different from others in the same condition. They are Covenant Prisoners,in a Covenant with God through their Mediator, the Lord Jesus Christ.
The rest have no hope ! Eph 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
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savedbygrace57
Guest
Election !
Election, it is God's Sovereign work, so God must be Thanked for it, since He did it. 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love to them from Everlasting, all who were Beloved of God, were chosen to salvation in Christ, for Jacob have I Loved !
Election took place in Eternity, for God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.
Not as how the Antichrist ministers teach, that God from the beginning merely chose a plan ! See Eph 1:3-6
Election is unto Salvation [ Conversion]
Chosen to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit [ which is new birth] and Chosen to be saved through belief of the Truth !
Election, it is God's Sovereign work, so God must be Thanked for it, since He did it. 2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love to them from Everlasting, all who were Beloved of God, were chosen to salvation in Christ, for Jacob have I Loved !
Election took place in Eternity, for God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation.
Not as how the Antichrist ministers teach, that God from the beginning merely chose a plan ! See Eph 1:3-6
Election is unto Salvation [ Conversion]
Chosen to be saved through sanctification of the Spirit [ which is new birth] and Chosen to be saved through belief of the Truth !
Grubal Muruch
Member
God's Salvation is open to ALL who will receive it. (John:3-16) The Holy Spirit works on the hearts of ALL men and some reject and yet others respond. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." Calvinism is a man made doctrine. I would heartily suggest that everyone look into the history of John Calvin. He was NOT a good guy by any means...
I liked your post glorifying God and not flesh, welcome to the forum.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
grubal
Thats a lie, and please address the points made in the post..
Thats a lie, and please address the points made in the post..
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savedbygrace57
Guest
If you believe that man must do something to get saved based upon Acts 16:30
30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Then you believe in getting saved by works. The word do here is the greek word poieo a action verb and means:
- to make
- with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.
- to be the authors of, the cause
- to make ready, to prepare
- to produce, bear, shoot forth
- to acquire, to provide a thing for one's self
- to make a thing out of something
- to (make i.e.) render one anything
- to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that
- to (make i.e.) declare one anything
- to put one forth, to lead him out
- to make one do something
- cause one to
- to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)
- to do
- to act rightly, do well
- to carry out, to execute
- to do a thing unto one
- to do to one
- with designation of time: to pass, spend
- to celebrate, keep
- to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover
- to perform: to a promise
- to act rightly, do well
One more thing. The word work as in Eph 2:9
Ergon:
- any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind
- an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
I will not be going back and forth with you on this, because this thread is about God's elect. But I wanted you to know that you promote a works salvation, but so does a lot of people..
Grubal Muruch
Member
Respectfully, What I said, is on the subject, "His Elect" Salvation is for ALL those who receive God's gift. Not just a few chosen before the foundation of the world. Christ died for the sins of ALL mankind. Calvin was wrong and created, man made doctrine. And it's a shame that Calvinism flourished, and created so much anger and division among those who trust in Christ for their Salvation...
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God knows the future. He knows who is who. His Elect is those God chose even before the creation of this earth. How so, that's a puzzle.
We are the unqualified living in Satan's realm instead of God's. We are the unqualified in front of His Law. More importantly is that in front of Satan's influence to this world, we all lost our capability in choosing God. All left is the option that God chooses us. And He will choose only His Elect. Others will be filtered out by His Law on the Judgment Day.
Can we choose God. Theoretically you can. But Satan will try his best to harden our hearts. Under this situation, God as a Shepherd will make a call to His sheep, and only His sheep will acknowledge His call, as only His sheep will recognize the voice of the Shepherd. As for others, they will continue to be captive to Satan's influence and keep denying God.
We are the unqualified living in Satan's realm instead of God's. We are the unqualified in front of His Law. More importantly is that in front of Satan's influence to this world, we all lost our capability in choosing God. All left is the option that God chooses us. And He will choose only His Elect. Others will be filtered out by His Law on the Judgment Day.
Can we choose God. Theoretically you can. But Satan will try his best to harden our hearts. Under this situation, God as a Shepherd will make a call to His sheep, and only His sheep will acknowledge His call, as only His sheep will recognize the voice of the Shepherd. As for others, they will continue to be captive to Satan's influence and keep denying God.
Grubal Muruch
Member
If you don't have a good grasp on what you believe, how can you espouse the theory (Calvin's belief) that men are chosen before the foundation of the world (as the elect) and the rest are damned. You only say, "It's a puzzle." That's called "blind faith." In other words you don't have a clue, and yet you fervently believe it. There is no puzzle involved with the offer of God's Grace to a world full of sinners. That's the plain and simple of it...
Eventide
Member
Why would any Christian be led to believe that God chose them, in light of these simple biblical truths..?
And He said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God's infinitely glorious Elected one.. the one in whom He delights.. it's not Christ and me, it's Christ in me, my hope of glory..
And He said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for My sake, the same shall save it.
The Lord Jesus Christ is God's infinitely glorious Elected one.. the one in whom He delights.. it's not Christ and me, it's Christ in me, my hope of glory..
Grubal Muruch
Member
AMEN!!!
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savedbygrace57
Guest
grubal:
Respectfully thats a false conclusion !
Respectfully thats a false conclusion !
Grubal Muruch
Member
If so, tell me where I'm going wrong? Respectfully of course...There's only two optional thoughts on this subject, and one has to be wrong. 50/50 chance. Two schools of thought. Both can be presented effectively, and yet one of them is false.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
grub
I already have, you are posting in a thread that I started and you disagree with what I posted.
I already have, you are posting in a thread that I started and you disagree with what I posted.
Grubal Muruch
Member
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
What to know about God's Election !
Election is God's Sovereign work Rom 9:11-13
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Many will contend that this word chosen does not mean election, but it does. It is the greek word haireō:
to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
2) to choose by vote, elect to office
Its used 3 times as the word choose , our present verse, Phil 1:22 and Heb 11:25
Also the word is in the greek in the middle voice meaning He has chosen or preferred them for Himself !
So since it is God's work and His Sovereign choice or preference, Paul writes that God must be Thanked for it !
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love from Everlasting, all who were beloved of God were chosen to Salvation in Christ, and it was discriminating from Rom 9:13
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Election took place in Eternity, God hath from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation also see Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
This is not as the false teachers today teach that God hath only chosen a plan of salvation.
Election is unto Salvation, that is deliverance and conversion in this life. God has chosen to save His preferred people by the means of Sanctification of the Spirit [regeneration] and belief of the Truth [faith]
This mean all for whom God has chosen to salvation, shall be given new birth and Faith. All this is God's Sovereign Work in Election, for each chosen vessel of mercy..
Election is God's Sovereign work Rom 9:11-13
11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )
12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
2 Thess 2:13
13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Many will contend that this word chosen does not mean election, but it does. It is the greek word haireō:
to take for oneself, to prefer, choose
2) to choose by vote, elect to office
Its used 3 times as the word choose , our present verse, Phil 1:22 and Heb 11:25
Also the word is in the greek in the middle voice meaning He has chosen or preferred them for Himself !
So since it is God's work and His Sovereign choice or preference, Paul writes that God must be Thanked for it !
2 Thess 2:13
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
The cause of Election is God's discriminating Love from Everlasting, all who were beloved of God were chosen to Salvation in Christ, and it was discriminating from Rom 9:13
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Election took place in Eternity, God hath from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation also see Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
This is not as the false teachers today teach that God hath only chosen a plan of salvation.
Election is unto Salvation, that is deliverance and conversion in this life. God has chosen to save His preferred people by the means of Sanctification of the Spirit [regeneration] and belief of the Truth [faith]
This mean all for whom God has chosen to salvation, shall be given new birth and Faith. All this is God's Sovereign Work in Election, for each chosen vessel of mercy..
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
We know that there is a Elect People in the world by the designation in Rom 11:5
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
The Remnant of the Election of Grace. Now many adversaries of this Truth will object, that this scripture is referring to ethnic jews only, but that would be a assumption, it is speaking of the remnant of the election of grace among the jews, in this context, particularly Paul's kinsmen of the flesh, however the remnant of the election of grace is not limited to ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, but there are gentiles also of the remnant of the election of grace, who are not ethnic born jews. The Election of Grace is simply Salvation by Grace through Faith. To say therefore that the remnant according to the election of grace is restricted to only ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, is tantamount to saying that Salvation by Grace through Faith is limited to only ethnic jews ! How erroneous is that ? So the Elect is comprised of a remnant out of Mankind, some jews, and some gentiles !
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
The Remnant of the Election of Grace. Now many adversaries of this Truth will object, that this scripture is referring to ethnic jews only, but that would be a assumption, it is speaking of the remnant of the election of grace among the jews, in this context, particularly Paul's kinsmen of the flesh, however the remnant of the election of grace is not limited to ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, but there are gentiles also of the remnant of the election of grace, who are not ethnic born jews. The Election of Grace is simply Salvation by Grace through Faith. To say therefore that the remnant according to the election of grace is restricted to only ethnic jews, Paul's kinsmen according to the flesh, is tantamount to saying that Salvation by Grace through Faith is limited to only ethnic jews ! How erroneous is that ? So the Elect is comprised of a remnant out of Mankind, some jews, and some gentiles !
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
If there is an determined elect number that must and will be saved based upon the Person and Work of Christ, and this determined and fixed number will be no more or less than what it is, then some ask, why Preach the Gospel ? Why not Preach it is my answer ?
All things are said to be for the elect's sake Paul writing to God's Elect/Chosen in Corinth writes 1 Cor 3:21-23
21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;
22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;
23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
So the Preaching of the Gospel is for their sakes, the Elect's sake 2 Tim 2:10
10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Paul endured much of His sufferings for Preaching, so that would be included in the all things that he endures for the Elect Sake. Just so they can hear the good news of their Salvation in Christ, their Election in Christ !
You see if there were no elect in the world, the preaching of the Gospel would not be needed, in fact, there would be no gospel if it had not been for God's Elect..
All things are said to be for the elect's sake Paul writing to God's Elect/Chosen in Corinth writes 1 Cor 3:21-23
21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;
22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;
23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
So the Preaching of the Gospel is for their sakes, the Elect's sake 2 Tim 2:10
10Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
Paul endured much of His sufferings for Preaching, so that would be included in the all things that he endures for the Elect Sake. Just so they can hear the good news of their Salvation in Christ, their Election in Christ !
You see if there were no elect in the world, the preaching of the Gospel would not be needed, in fact, there would be no gospel if it had not been for God's Elect..