His Elect !

[savedbygrace57]

That's true. We have "different" Gospels...

Yes, that is True, we agree ! One of us is Preaching the True Gospel, and the other is Preaching a False Gospel !

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Yes, that is True, we agree ! One of us is Preaching the True Gospel, and the other is Preaching a False Gospel !

Well, at least we agree on one thing!!!

 

[glorydaz]

Of course we mustn't forget that our faith begins the Salvation process. And that God has given us the "free-will" to choose...

Yes, and Jesus gave us the perfect example in John 3:14-15. First we must look and believe, then we are given life.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life."

We see here that "he that believeth not" shall not see life. So, how can man receive life before he believes?

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

It's only after we believe that we receive salvation.

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,"

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith brought about by grace in the heart of a believing sinner.

"Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Yes, and Jesus gave us the perfect example in John 3:14-15. First we must look and believe, then we are given life.




We see here that "he that believeth not" shall not see life. So, how can man receive life before he believes?


It's only after we believe that we receive salvation.

God's work of regeneration takes place in response to faith brought about by grace in the heart of a believing sinner.

I could not have said it better myself!!! Your 100% right, and yet "SOME" cannot, or will not see the truth...

 

[savedbygrace57]

All of these Elect shall be preserved unto Eternal Glory, simply because they are God's very own Elect.. 1 Thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is Paul writing to here but those Chosen of God 1 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Thess 1:4

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

BTW, this statement indicates for sure that Paul preached Election to them in His Gospel, how else would he refer them back to that subject ? " Knowing your election of God ? The word knowing here is the greek word eido and means:

to see
to perceive with the eyes
to perceive by any of the senses
to perceive, notice, discern, discover
to see

They had discovered their Election of God, they perceived it. The word also is in the perfect tense in the greek, it was perceived in the past, a completed perception, once and for all, resulting into present perception, they will always know it !

They know it to be an act of the Father, He having Chosen them in Christ before the foundation of the world, this was Gospel Truth !

This also was can be understood as the Knowledge of the Apostle had of them being of God's Election by the way they received the word of God. They had received it as the Word of God and not of men.. 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

This is the same way the Elect Disciples received the word of God from Christ ! Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Thats an evidence of Election when one receives the words of God, His Gospel..

 

[Grubal Muruch]

All of these Elect shall be preserved unto Eternal Glory, simply because they are God's very own Elect.. 1 Thess 5:23

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is Paul writing to here but those Chosen of God 1 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

1 Thess 1:4

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

BTW, this statement indicates for sure that Paul preached Election to them in His Gospel, how else would he refer them back to that subject ? " Knowing your election of God ? The word knowing here is the greek word eido and means:

to see
to perceive with the eyes
to perceive by any of the senses
to perceive, notice, discern, discover
to see

They had discovered their Election of God, they perceived it. The word also is in the perfect tense in the greek, it was perceived in the past, a completed perception, once and for all, resulting into present perception, they will always know it !

They know it to be an act of the Father, He having Chosen them in Christ before the foundation of the world, this was Gospel Truth !

This also was can be understood as the Knowledge of the Apostle had of them being of God's Election by the way they received the word of God. They had received it as the Word of God and not of men.. 1 Thess 2:13

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

This is the same way the Elect Disciples received the word of God from Christ ! Jn 17:8

For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

Thats an evidence of Election when one receives the words of God, His Gospel..

In order for one to be truly saved, he must place his faith in Christ and Christ alone. There is no other way...

 

[savedbygrace57]

gm

In order for one to be truly saved, he must place his faith in Christ and Christ alone

Thats salvation by works, man having to do something to get saved. That means what Christ did alone did not save the ones He died for.

 

[kjb1769]

savedbygrace57
You have glossed over a very important issue with the comment "whatever".
In times past God was dealing with mankind through the Nation Israel a Nation of priest a peculiar people he separated out from all mankind.
Gentiles could only come to God thru Israel.
Today he has set the Nation Israel aside any one "all men" can come to God through Christ.
In the ages to come after the believers of today are caught out of this world when we meet him in the air he will reestablish Israel the Temple and Temple sacrife. Then the gentile will have to come to God thru Israel again. Those who reject Christ in this time will be sent strong delusions to believe a lie and be damned. When he Christ appears we the saved today will appear with him in Glory.

 

[mythunderstood]

savedbygrace57
You have glossed over a very important issue with the comment "whatever".
In times past God was dealing with mankind through the Nation Israel a Nation of priest a peculiar people he separated out from all mankind.
Gentiles could only come to God thru Israel.
Today he has set the Nation Israel aside any one "all men" can come to God through Christ.
In the ages to come after the believers of today are caught out of this world when we meet him in the air he will reestablish Israel the Temple and Temple sacrife. Then the gentile will have to come to God thru Israel again. Those who reject Christ in this time will be sent strong delusions to believe a lie and be damned. When he Christ appears we the saved today will appear with him in Glory.

Actually, quite the opposite is true. No one can come to god via christ without the father enabling them.

John 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

 

[kjb1769]

Actually, quite the opposite is true. No one can come to god via christ without the father enabling them.

John 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

In the context of Jesus' statement he is speaking to the 12 one of which is the devil.

The resurrected Christ speaking to all mankind

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, -Titus 2:11

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. -Romans 1:16

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, quite the opposite is true. No one can come to god via christ without the father enabling them.

John 6:65
He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him."

Which is every one that believes on the Lord Jesus Christ...drawn by the cross...persuaded by the Power of the Gospel message (those who have "heard" and "learned of the Father"). In other words, those who have trusted in Christ as their Saviour.

John 6:40-45 - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Who is "drawn"? All men. How are they drawn? By Christ being "lifted up" by His death on the Cross.

John 12:31-33 - Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Man is reconciled to God by the cross. Sins are done away with and the prison doors are opened. It is then possible for man to be saved by His LIFE by partaking in His Resurrection (being born again).

 

[glorydaz]

In the context of Jesus' statement he is speaking to the 12 one of which is the devil.

The resurrected Christ speaking to all mankind

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, -Titus 2:11

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. -Romans 1:16

Jesus does mention the betrayer at the end of this chapter, but the portion of scripture cited isn't about them nor had Jesus yet been resurrected. However, you're correct with the verses you've posted, in saying the grace of God (Jesus being the Grace of God extended to all of mankind) has appeared to all men. And it's everyone that believes the Gospel message that will be saved.

 

[glorydaz]

gm



Thats salvation by works, man having to do something to get saved. That means what Christ did alone did not save the ones He died for.

Christ died on the cross for all men. Those who partake in the Resurrection are saved by His LIFE.

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Christ died on the cross for all men. Those who partake in the Resurrection are saved by His LIFE.

Amen Glory...Of course sbf57 will "refute" that, with his "usual" repetitiousness...

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Which is every one that believes on the Lord Jesus Christ...drawn by the cross...persuaded by the Power of the Gospel message (those who have "heard" and "learned of the Father"). In other words, those who have trusted in Christ as their Saviour.

John 6:40-45 - "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven? Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

Who is "drawn"? All men. How are they drawn? By Christ being "lifted up" by His death on the Cross.

John 12:31-33 - Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Man is reconciled to God by the cross. Sins are done away with and the prison doors are opened. It is then possible for man to be saved by His LIFE by partaking in His Resurrection (being born again).

AMEN!!!

 

[savedbygrace57]

Christ died on the cross for all men. Those who partake in the Resurrection are saved by His LIFE.

Christ's death which includes His resurrection as evidence of the saving virtue of His death, saves all for whom He died. Now are you saying that all men without exception will be saved by Christ Life ? if so, then you are a universalist, and deny the Eternal Punishment of the wicked which Jesus points out here Matt 25:41


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So which do you believe ? Does Christ death and resurrection save all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, or it does not, simple as that !

Your double talking will not work with me and scripture, so which is it ?

 

[Grubal Muruch]

Christ's death which includes His resurrection as evidence of the saving virtue of His death, saves all for whom He died. Now are you saying that all men without exception will be saved by Christ Life ? if so, then you are a universalist, and deny the Eternal Punishment of the wicked which Jesus points out here Matt 25:41


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So which do you believe ? Does Christ death and resurrection save all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, or it does not, simple as that !

Your double talking will not work with me and scripture, so which is it ?

Still delivering your message in a "loving" way I see...

 

[glorydaz]

Christ's death which includes His resurrection as evidence of the saving virtue of His death, saves all for whom He died. Now are you saying that all men without exception will be saved by Christ Life ? if so, then you are a universalist, and deny the Eternal Punishment of the wicked which Jesus points out here Matt 25:41


41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

So which do you believe ? Does Christ death and resurrection save all for whom He died and rose again in behalf of, or it does not, simple as that !

Your double talking will not work with me and scripture, so which is it ?

No, I'm saying you simply misunderstand what Christ's death did, and what His resurrection did. You like to lump them together in order to lend credence to your particular doctrine.

Look carefully at this verse. Rom. 5:10 - "For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life."

"When were enemies....we were reconciled to God by the DEATH of His Son.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world....all men were at enmity with God because of sin.

Christ took away sin, and now mankind can freely come to God.

The catch for you and others of your persuasion, is the freewill of man.
He must choose to serve God or continue in the world.

Now for the second part of that verse......"So much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His Life."
You miss that part by lumping the death and resurrection into one. To be partakers of the resurrection, we must be born again of the Spirit. You must be born again. That's what you lack.

John 3:5 - "Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."


The Son is lifted up by the preaching of the Gospel. Whoever looks upon the Son and believes will be saved. Exactly like what happened to the children in the wilderness. They were saved from the poisonous snake bite if they but LOOKED at the serpent on the pole. You should see from the reading of this verse (if you actually read it) that believing is the one thing you deny we need to do. You keep calling it a work, and do so at your own peril, for unless you believe, you will not have eternal life.

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[savedbygrace57]

glory

No, I'm saying you simply misunderstand what Christ's death did

No you do. Christ death saves. You deny that ! You teach that what man does saves, a false gospel and a works salvation..

 

[glorydaz]

glory



No you do. Christ death saves. You deny that ! You teach that what man does saves, a false gospel and a works salvation..

No, Christ's death took away sins. His resurrection gives life....but only to those who come by faith.

I gave the scripture, are you afraid to read it?