His Elect !

[Sparkey]

Irresistible? What kind of irresistible ...

Irresistible in the sense some one has a gun to your head?

or irresistible as in 'your bride on your wedding day' ?

I like the 2nd one, given the choice. It also reminds me of something told by Jesus.

In the gospel of Luke we find Jesus eating at the house of the ruler of the Pharisees -- Jesus had noticed how they gave places of honor and said, “When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest someone more distinguished than you be invited by him, and he who invited you both will come and say to you, ‘Give your place to this person,’ and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place."

There is also another story, of the Wedding Feast, that is similar (found in Matthew, the one in Luke was given in context of a great supper). From this we know that many are invited but few are chosen.

 

[Brother Mike]

Beware...........If you are one of his elected Children be thankful and GENTLE with others and ALWAYS give God all the honor, glory and praise to Jesus Christ for what HE has done. Men hate this precious truth but to his people it is the power of Salvation. Thank God he does have a choosen people and be forever thankful if he included you in that number.

Well that is the kicker when you take the faith in grace part out of the equation. Judas Jesus had called friend, surely chosen, no evidence he was to go bad, but there you have it. You get chosen, Only to find out you were made an example of. Your intentions started out good, but you always been that cracked pot God made to reveal later. Bummer you did not make it, but some have to be set aside and destroyed for the rest God had decided to save. You just never know with God.

Making Jesus Lord is a great thing, but I always wonder when God might just pull the plug on me. Chosen to be made an example, or worse, deceived to think I was chosen. Many are called, answer but it was not good enough. Much like Judas we start strong, Jesus calls us friend then the bad news that all along the plan of God was your doom. Some of the elect here won't make it, it's just statical fact and not a thing anyone can do about it. Very scary if you ask me.... very scary.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Beware...........If you are one of his elected Children be thankful and GENTLE with others and ALWAYS give God all the honor, glory and praise to Jesus Christ for what HE has done. Men hate this precious truth but to his people it is the power of Salvation. Thank God he does have a choosen people and be forever thankful if he included you in that number.

Well that is the kicker when you take the faith in grace part out of the equation. Judas Jesus had called friend, surely chosen, no evidence he was to go bad, but there you have it. You get chosen, Only to find out you were made an example of. Your intentions started out good, but you always been that cracked pot God made to reveal later. Bummer you did not make it, but some have to be set aside and destroyed for the rest God had decided to save. You just never know with God.

Making Jesus Lord is a great thing, but I always wonder when God might just pull the plug on me. Chosen to be made an example, or worse, deceived to think I was chosen. Many are called, answer but it was not good enough. Much like Judas we start strong, Jesus calls us friend then the bad news that all along the plan of God was your doom. Some of the elect here won't make it, it's just statical fact and not a thing anyone can do about it. Very scary if you ask me.... very scary.

Mike.

God saw Judas wasn't going to choose Him from the foundation of the world.

The prophets speak of this.

Study the parable of the sower brother.

Judas was never "saved".

You on the other hand are born of God and have been given a measure of Gods Spirit.

When Judas was filled with the Spirit, it was proven that he was not born of God, as he burst open.

Old wine skin can't contain the new wine.

You Brother are a container of new wine.

You are a son of God.

You are a man of faith.

You Love God and fear Him.


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

God saw Judas wasn't going to choose Him from the foundation of the world.

The prophets speak of this.

Study the parable of the sower brother.

Judas was never "saved".

Looking at Judas.......... Jesus still picked him, I have no scripture that says Judas was chosen to fail. Even God who set up Pharaoh, gave pharaoh a kingdom to run, made pharaoh rich was known by God. It was not that God picked Pharaoh to be destroyed by example, it was that through watching Pharaoh God knew his heart.

Exo 3:19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.
Exo 3:20 And I will stretch out my hand, and smite Egypt with all my wonders which I will do in the midst thereof: and after that he will let you go.

God's comment was a comment of observation, not a comment of "I have made pharaoh this way" God said knowing Pharaoh, I am "SURE" it's going to take a pretty heavy hand to get this guys attention.

Same comment God made to Abraham............. Seeing how you have not withheld my son from me, "now I Know"

God knows Abraham is the one by Abrahams act of not withholding anything from God. This is How God knew, not some predestined planed out thing. Man has to prove themselves a vessel to honor or dishonor.

Who is faithful in another mans things......................... Who is faithful in the least of things.........

How does God know it's promotion time? Not some predestination or plan from some foundation of the World, man has to choose blessing or cursing, life or death. To be faithful in what is given. Man's job.

Same with Judas, He was stealing out of their cash bag. Judas wanted that alabaster perfume sold as it was worth a years wages, his excuse was that it was wasted and could have been given to the poor. that comment there shows his mind was on getting that money in the bag so he could have access to it.

Same comment believers make today.................. "Oh that Pastor has a jet plane..... He could have sold it and given the money to the poor"

People that talk like that have a demonic spirit of covetousness and love money, being mad inside they don't have it. It's the same comment Judas made, same spirit and people that speak like this show their true colors.

Judas made a choice, the scripture could have been fulfilled using anyone, but Judas was a thief. Jesus waited on Judas up until he took that bread sop and Satan came in fully.
Same with Pharaoh, As God was sure about Pharaoh needing a heavy head to get the guys attention as Paul said, God was longsuffering with pharaoh before judgment came.

The tree:

Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

What did Jesus say? Now, now........ That tree is mine elect from the foundation of the world and will produce fruit. So don't cut the tree down as it's mine elect.

Jesus did not say that, only those that believe in some election wish He would have said that.

Not only does the Lord not plan someones destruction, but the Lord has to "See" if that person will produce fruit or not. The Lord is merciful and instead of just chopping the tree down, gives that tree help and another year to get things right. Only then will it be decided if the tree gets cut down or not.

Two belief's here are Myth Busted!!!!

O.S.A.S and Election

Busted in just 3 scriptures......... Otherwise Jesus was confused when He said that.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

Looking at Judas.......... Jesus still picked him, I have no scripture that says Judas was chosen to fail.

The balance to what you are saying is: God saw the choice Judas would make, before the foundation of the world.

The prophets are a witness to His foreknowledge of these things.

Two belief's here are Myth Busted!!!! O.S.A.S and Election Busted in just 3 scriptures......... Otherwise Jesus was confused when He said that.

Amen Brother. You go on and bust that Myth.

Election and OSAS are a fairy tale.

A cunningly devised fable.


No comment on Judas being Baptized with the Holy Spirit?


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

What do we do with salt that has lost its taste? Does anybody know how to restore its saltiness? I like reading the context around that particular Scripture. Luke 14, right? One moment... checking....

There are a couple quick parables there too. One that I wasn't familiar with. They're about counting the cost of discipleship.

There's the parable of the Great Supper (we know that one - it's similar to the parable of the Wedding Feast but slightly different) and there's the cost of building a tower (also similar to the cost of building a house and the folly of not completing it). The one who doesn't count the cost risks becoming a laughing stock... but there's another one that I read --and that's about a king considering the cost of a war starting in Luke 14:31

Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
[Luk 14:31-33 KJV]

These parables (admonitions to count the cost) are concluded with the observation about salt and a statement, "He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." I wasn't aware of the parable about the cost of war. It makes sense to seek peace when we know we are the weaker.

 

[Brother Mike]

The balance to what you are saying is: God saw the choice Judas would make, before the foundation of the world.

The prophets are a witness to His foreknowledge of these things.

I would certainly need that scripture that says God knows the end from the beginning. It's just not there, anywhere in the Bible. In fact, God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, and does not afflict men willingly. So it's against God's own will that he have to judge and affliction come.

However, with some type of foreknowledge comes fault. God put the spirit in man and if God did so with the foreknowledge of failure and hell, then it's no longer foreknowledge but election.

It's like saying I have foreknowledge that I will run out of gas before making it to work. Sure enough, 2 miles away from Work, I ran out of gas. This must mean I have great foreknowledge, knowing in the future that would happen.

Or it can mean I am stupid and made a choice to not stop and get gas along the way.

Do I blame being late to work on foreknowledge or electing to be stupid? Foreknowledge or Election?

There is no real foreknowledge that is not election, so it's not knowing but choosing. If it was foreknowledge, then at what point would God know? You would have to limit God's ability to know something on some time line to actually call it true foreknowledge.

That means one day God gets the revelation and "Foreknowledge" that Judas is the one to fulfill the scriptures. If God knew before the foundation of the World, still put the spirit of man, in the man Judas knowing this, then it becomes election again.

It is neither.............. Both cases are wrong.

God makes Saul King. Best choice, as Saul is going to be a great King. God later repents (sighs long) and wishes he never made Saul King.
God makes Eli's family the royal priest.............. God said even though I said you would be my priest, far be it from me. Those that honor me, I will honor. Once again we don't see election or foreknowledge.

God wipes mankind off the planet, it grieves him at heart (And God is against any form of grief but He had to kill his man) God said he wishes he never made man in the first place. Not foreknowledge or election.

God hears from Heaven the grieves cries of the city of Sodom. He said he would go down and look, then he would know. This is not foreknowledge or election, God had to look to see if the grievous cry matched what was going on.

Any foreknowledge God has comes from the heart of a man. There is no election but that all saved by the blood of the lamb who will receive.

There is not one scripture that God knows the state of man and what a man will choose. There is scripture that God declares the path of man, and a man on that path has all things ahead as God declared. Off that path, and it's dark. Off the plan and path of God, you out of God's plan, grace, planing, and foreknowledge of things your were suppose to encounter on His path.

There was no foreknowledge from any foundation that Judas would fail. Like all the other examples, We have a choice to choose, that choice is recorded and choices are made by actions and words.

Jesus said every idle word you speak from the heart is recorded and we give an account. Depending on your choice and actions it will bring good or evil into your path.

God declares the end from the beginning, that is not foreknowledge, that is causing.

M9ike.

 

[Brother Mike]

What do we do with salt that has lost its taste? Does anybody know how to restore its saltiness?

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

interesting passage. We are the salt of the earth, if the salt becomes passive (foolish) how can the earth be salted. Where is the earth going to get light, if the salt is not up to par?

This is how the Greek reads and coincides with the other passages. So it's not restoring the Salt back, it's not being a light to give light to the world. If your no light, then the earth is not lighted and the light is worthless.

Mat 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Mat 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

So, if we are the salt, but become passive (The Greek word here or insipid or foolish) then We can't salt the Earth and trodden and rejected when we do try to salt with weak salt.
We are the light, but if we hide the light, then nobody gets light and does nobody any good.

The answer then is to be the salt, and be the light. Don't be weak about Jesus but be strong. Salt that is not salty does not flavor and Light that is hidden does not light.

You don't have to be passive or foolish, and you don't have to hide your light.

So wherewith shall it be salted would refer back to the Earth again in the Greek passage. Not referring on how to make non- flavorful salt flavorsome again. If we are passive about the message and lukewarm then how can it be salted?

The Answer:

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Blessings.

Mike.

 

[Sparkey]

Thanks for the comment, Bro Mike. I was aware of the connection between being flat and tasteless and behaving foolishly (the word is used in Romans 1:22 in that sense) but not aware of the "passive" part.

What I was trying to say though (and how it ties into the whole foreknowledge of God topic) is that I don't possess such foreknowledge (and good thing too). If I did, I'd be tempted to sit on my laurels and that would cause me to become tasteless. Or fit for being stepped on and nothing else. I don't know how to know the full mind of God but knowing what I do know, it seems essential to count the cost and to continue without regard to the situation and how things appear at the moment.

Here we are serving God who IS love -- who doesn't consider a wrong suffered and hopes all things. If that kind of consideration may be given to me who is unfaithful so often, how much more so should it be given to God who is faithful in all?

 

[JLB]

I would certainly need that scripture that says God knows the end from the beginning. It's just not there, anywhere in the Bible.

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Isaiah 46:10.

The reason He knows the end from the beginning is: He is The beginning and the End. -


I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." Revelation 1:8

and again -



"Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: 'I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God. Isaiah 44:6



I am in agreement with you Brother Mike on O.S.A.S and Election.


JLB

 

[JLB]

God makes Saul King. Best choice, as Saul is going to be a great King.

Saul is not the best choice.

Saul is the choice of the people.

Saul represents the fact that the people rejected God as King.

And the Lord said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.

1 Samuel 8:7


JLB

 

[Brother Mike]

And the Lord said to Samuel, "Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.

OK, Granted............ Was not God's first choice (More proof that there is no election of foreknowledge) but God did pick Saul. Saul was the best 2nd Choice for God. I stand corrected...........It was not God's best or first choice. My point was is that God hopes the best and has a predestined plan for every single person He has created. God never had a plan for anyone to be a failure. That was my point as God does not create junk and is no respecter of persons. He is a respecter of faith and those that trust him and obey him and honor him.

Who honors God, it's him that God honors............... Not who God foreknows or elects God honors.

A Personal Word from the Lord is not the More sure Word. It's conditional and based on our choices and obedience.

Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things that are not yet done, Saying, 'My counsel shall stand, And I will do all My pleasure,' Isaiah 46:10.

This is how God knows............. he said it!!!! What God says, is what happens.

Peter said we saw the miracles and got direction........ We have a more sure word of prophecy. Mans path is declared but it's not the more sure word as each mans path is conditional based on the choices of the man.

Pro_2:19 None that go unto her return again, neither take they hold of the paths of life.
Pro_2:20 That thou mayest walk in the way of good men, and keep the paths of the righteous.

Who is responsible for staying on God's path?

Psa_142:3 When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.
Psa_139:3 Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways.

God has a plan a declared path. The path of the just is God's plan. God knows the end and the start of His path. Get off that path, and you enter into the realm of things God never planned or knew was coming in your way. The path is dark and they stumble on things they don't even know why. Things that trip them up and they are confused as to how these things can happen. On Gods' path it's light and planned out all the way to the end. Off the path it's dark, and we go through things God never planed, knew or intended.

That is scripture and we see example after example of this.

O.S.A.S and Election is busted!!!!


Mike.

 

[JLB]

OK, Granted............ Was not God's first choice (More proof that there is no election of foreknowledge) but God did pick Saul.

My point exactly.

I told you I agree with you on Election and OSAS. Myth Busta. BUSTED!


JLB

 

[Sparkey]

My point was is that God hopes the best and has a predestined plan for every single person He has created. God never had a plan for anyone to be a failure.

In another thread I've recently quoted Jeremiah 29.

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

It is good to know and think about such things.

 

[Brother Mike]

In another thread I've recently quoted Jeremiah 29.

Praise God!!! That is what God thinks about everyone, and looking after example after example if that changes, it's not God's foreknowledge or some election but God responding to the choices, Words and actions of man.

Lam_3:33 For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.

Everywhere God had to turn his back and let Judgment come and destroy it was not his will, not his plan, not what he wanted. There is no judgement that God had to make that was his will or plan that ended in death and disaster. It was man who continued over and over to igore the Word of the Lord.

God told everyone what to choose. He said choose life, choose death. Choose blessing, choose cursing...... (Hint!!! hint!!! hint!!!) choose life guys so that you and your children live. Don't chose the other.

Election is just a form of what the Word has and we don't want what the World has. The World has something called......... "NOT MY FAULT!!!!"

We see it coming down the Corporate ladders as the blame lands at the bottom of the employee pool and that lone janitor gets the Axe because someone did not inform him, or train him properly.

It's not my fault religion, that no matter what I say, (Though Jesus said you have exactly what your saying) No matter what I believe, no matter what choices or actions I take, God is Sovereign and makes all the choices. It's God's fault!!! God chooses or just allows, all God's fault.

It was God that put me in prison so I can get closer to him, God did that!!! (It must have been some divine will that I also robbed that bank)

It was God who told me to fish around for that Cheeseburger I dropped on my floorboard of the car and smashed into that tree. God did it so I could feel the suffering of others........ All God's fault.

It was God that gave me the Heart attack so I could witness to the person in the Hospital bed next to me. (Must have been God to ignore the doctor warnings all those years also)

It was God who sent me to hell, because I was not picked to be saved. Since I was not picked, I ignored the gospel. Not my fault!!!!

It's not our fault......................

It is God's fault I am broke because some He makes rich, and some He does not. It has nothing to do with tithing, giving, Serving or obedience..... NOPE!!! God's fault. (Though if we are willing and obedient we eat the good of the Land.)
Job_36:11 If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.


All God's fault..........

Mike.