Grubal Muruch
Member
You were doing okay until you mentioned the word, "remnant." God's Salvation plan is open to "ALL" of will put their faith in Christ Jesus...
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You were doing okay until you mentioned the word, "remnant." God's Salvation plan is open to "ALL" of will put their faith in Christ Jesus...
Grubal Muruch
Member
I'm afraid your quite mistaken here friend. The Gospel must be preached to a "world" of lost sinners. The elect are a combination of Jewish and Gentile believers, not a "remnant" of mankind as you say...To say that we would not need to preach the Gospel if it weren't for the "remnant" is quite obviously absurd. (excuse my brash wording)
God has elected people throughout time to be his people to do his will. An easy example would be the 12 Disciples.
Let me start off with this:
Matthew 24:22
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the ELECT's sake those days shall be shortened."
This is Jesus speaking of the end times during the great tribulation. This clearly shows that there will be an elect group of people that will be saved from the wrath that is to come.
Notice it says NO flesh would be saved if them days weren't shortened, but them days are shortened to save the elects flesh.
So who are these people? Well I can only pinpoint it to one group of people. The 144,000, the ones REDEEMED from the earth.
You see this is a literal number as it is contrasting a great multitude that no one can count. Also, if the number 144,000 wasn't taken literal, then no number in revelations can. You can see revelations uses a lot of symbolism, but the numbers applied to them are literal. Moving on...
Now I believe these 144,000 are a special group of people sealed before the tribulations to spread the gospel around the world. They are to bring in the second harvest, the great multitude. The 144,000 being the first fruits to God as described in revelations.
There is even the description of two harvests in Revelations:
"14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God."
(9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes(In Revelations Chapter 7 the Great Multitude appears wearing white robes holding palm branches, oppose to the 144,000/Bride wearing fine linen) were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. )
So what you can see is the 2nd harvest that is thrown into the wine-press of God is the blood of them who have been slain and will be avenged with the cup of his wrath. The Great Multitude.
I'm going to be chaining more things together, so follow me on this.
You notice the first harvest seemed to be completed without violence(harvest of 144,000). Now you look at the 2nd harvest(Great Multitude), its grapes(people) were thrown into the great wine-press of God.
Now lets take a step back in Revelations really quick with Chapter 12...
"1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman(Whom I believe is the bride of Christ/144,000) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars(12 tribes of Israel):
2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(Daniel 12 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.)
Continuing on with Revelations 12...
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
(I can only see these people being the 144,000 REDEEMED from the earth, the FIRST FRUITS. What other people would be in heaven first?)
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman(bride/144,000), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed(brides off-spring, 2nd harvest), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ(The Great Multitude)."
You can see there's two groups depicted in this chapter. The people in heaven who overcame by the word of THEIR testimony and the people still on earth whom the devil makes war with who bare the testimony of Jesus.
This goes with the two groups, 144,000 and the Great Multitude.
I hope this wasn't confusing, but I wanted to share that there is an elect group that God saves by grace as spoken of in the Bible.
No matter which group we are a part of, we should strive to be with the lord no matter what!
Let me start off with this:
Matthew 24:22
"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the ELECT's sake those days shall be shortened."
This is Jesus speaking of the end times during the great tribulation. This clearly shows that there will be an elect group of people that will be saved from the wrath that is to come.
Notice it says NO flesh would be saved if them days weren't shortened, but them days are shortened to save the elects flesh.
So who are these people? Well I can only pinpoint it to one group of people. The 144,000, the ones REDEEMED from the earth.
You see this is a literal number as it is contrasting a great multitude that no one can count. Also, if the number 144,000 wasn't taken literal, then no number in revelations can. You can see revelations uses a lot of symbolism, but the numbers applied to them are literal. Moving on...
Now I believe these 144,000 are a special group of people sealed before the tribulations to spread the gospel around the world. They are to bring in the second harvest, the great multitude. The 144,000 being the first fruits to God as described in revelations.
There is even the description of two harvests in Revelations:
"14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God."
(9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11And white robes(In Revelations Chapter 7 the Great Multitude appears wearing white robes holding palm branches, oppose to the 144,000/Bride wearing fine linen) were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. )
So what you can see is the 2nd harvest that is thrown into the wine-press of God is the blood of them who have been slain and will be avenged with the cup of his wrath. The Great Multitude.
I'm going to be chaining more things together, so follow me on this.
You notice the first harvest seemed to be completed without violence(harvest of 144,000). Now you look at the 2nd harvest(Great Multitude), its grapes(people) were thrown into the great wine-press of God.
Now lets take a step back in Revelations really quick with Chapter 12...
"1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman(Whom I believe is the bride of Christ/144,000) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars(12 tribes of Israel):
2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
(Daniel 12 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.)
Continuing on with Revelations 12...
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them.
(I can only see these people being the 144,000 REDEEMED from the earth, the FIRST FRUITS. What other people would be in heaven first?)
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman(bride/144,000), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed(brides off-spring, 2nd harvest), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ(The Great Multitude)."
You can see there's two groups depicted in this chapter. The people in heaven who overcame by the word of THEIR testimony and the people still on earth whom the devil makes war with who bare the testimony of Jesus.
This goes with the two groups, 144,000 and the Great Multitude.
I hope this wasn't confusing, but I wanted to share that there is an elect group that God saves by grace as spoken of in the Bible.
No matter which group we are a part of, we should strive to be with the lord no matter what!
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S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The Children !
We should know that Salvation is for a Specified group, by the term Children of Promise. This term cannot denote or be in line with a man freewill salvation, conditioned on man.
The Children of Promise Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Children of Promise is a seed. No one chooses by their freewill to be part of a seed.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren[Jew and Gentile Believers], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
The Children of promise are not Children of promise because they believe on Christ, or because they accepted Jesus Christ in their heart, or because they repented of their sins, in fact, they did not do anything to be Children of Promise. Did Isaac do anything to be a Child of Promise ? Now who are the Children of Promise ? Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Children of Promise and the Children of Promise are the exact same Children. Now that means, they did not do anything to be the Children of God. They did not believe , they did not accept Christ as their Saviour, they did not repent of their sins, they did not do anything to become the Children of God, no more than they did to become the Children of Promise as Isaac .
Its by Election!
Salvation is for the Children, the Children of Promise ! Or the Children of the Covenant. Remember Peter said in Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Yes, The Children of the Promise and of the Covenant are the Same, and they are the Elect of God, Abraham's Children.
We should know that Salvation is for a Specified group, by the term Children of Promise. This term cannot denote or be in line with a man freewill salvation, conditioned on man.
The Children of Promise Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Children of Promise is a seed. No one chooses by their freewill to be part of a seed.
Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren[Jew and Gentile Believers], as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
The Children of promise are not Children of promise because they believe on Christ, or because they accepted Jesus Christ in their heart, or because they repented of their sins, in fact, they did not do anything to be Children of Promise. Did Isaac do anything to be a Child of Promise ? Now who are the Children of Promise ? Rom 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Children of Promise and the Children of Promise are the exact same Children. Now that means, they did not do anything to be the Children of God. They did not believe , they did not accept Christ as their Saviour, they did not repent of their sins, they did not do anything to become the Children of God, no more than they did to become the Children of Promise as Isaac .
Its by Election!
Salvation is for the Children, the Children of Promise ! Or the Children of the Covenant. Remember Peter said in Acts 3:25
Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
Yes, The Children of the Promise and of the Covenant are the Same, and they are the Elect of God, Abraham's Children.
I believe you're getting ahead of yourself on this one.
Read over the scripture you posted once more. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
This isn't speaking of the elect, this is speaking of everyone else. You notice it says the children of flesh, which are not the children of God, but the children of the promise that are counted for the seed.
Now read this...
The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, "I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as NUMEROUS as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies,
I believe this is speaking of the Great Multitude that no one can count. Just as no one can count the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore. The 144,000 which can be counted are the children of spirit and the children of God, the elect.
I should add one more thing, you contradicted yourself with what you wrote above... "
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
The Children of Promise and the Children of Promise are the exact same Children. Now that means, they did not do anything to be the Children of God."
You will notice the scripture you posted shows that the Children of FLESH are NOT the children of God, but the children of promise. Then you go on saying that the children of promise did nothing to be the children of God.
Grubal Muruch
Member
1. The Children of Promise:
The children of promise are Israel who is the decedents of Abraham through Isaac. God promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations.
Gentiles are grafted into the tree by Jesus Christ for these reasons:
• Jesus is the Son of God by the promise of the Messiah
• Jesus is the Son of Man by promise of God that there will be a virgin who will give birth.
• Jesus is the Son of Abraham by blood from the tribe of Judah
• Jesus is the King who will sit upon the throne of King David by promise of God
These promises are pre-ordained of God and promised to Israel first and then to the world.
The Gentiles who believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God are “grafted†into the tree and become the “Children of Promiseâ€
Who are the children of promise? Israel is the “chosen†people. The Gentiles and Israelites who are “Born Again†are the “Electâ€.
Israel was called by God as a congregation (grouping of people through Jacob the grandson of Abraham). Israel worshiped God corporately as a group (Read the Old Testament).
The Gentiles are called by God individually and not by nation or grouping. They are elected by God due to their answering the “Call†by obedience by becoming “Born Againâ€.
Jesus said in John chapter 3 that a man must be “Born again†to see the Kingdom of God and to enter into the Kingdom of God. Man decides to answer the call but God is the power who transfers the believer to the status of a Son or Daughter of the Most High God.
God foreknew who would come to Him through His Son, since He is not constrained by Time. He can see our past, present and future and all the choices we make “good and badâ€.
2. Isaac did do something to show his faith and obedience to his father Abraham. He laid himself down as a sacrifice to God and was willing to let his father Abraham sacrifice him. Jesus did the same thing when asked of His Father to lay down His life for the world. Isaac was the shadow of things to come. He was the example of OBEDIENCE in the Old Testament Covenant Agreement and Jesus is the example in the New Testament Covenant Agreement.
3. The Children of Promise (Israel Old Testament) had to “Do Something†they had to obey the Ten Commandments, The Ordinances, The Statutes and Limitations (Read the 5 books of Moses). There is an extensive requirement to please Almighty God. If they disobeyed and didn’t repent they were cast out of the camp of Israel. If they did repent then they had to offer a sacrifice and peace offering to the Almighty God.
4. Do we need to repent, walk away from sin, have faith and obey?
• Yes, to all of these works.
Yes, we need to repent of the evil works we have done in the flesh. Repent meaning to “change or minds. We’re going one way (the flesh) we must be willing to go the other way (obedience)
• Yes, we must walk away from Sin.
• Yes, we must put our faith in Christ.
• Yes, we must obey the Word of Go
Yes, we need to repent of the evil works we have done in the flesh. Repent meaning to “change our minds
We’re going one way (the flesh) we must be willing to go the other way (obedience)
• Yes, we must walk away from Sin.
• Yes, we must put our faith in Christ.
• Yes, we must obey the Word of God.
How do we accomplish these spiritual tasks? Through the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling within us.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The children of promise are believers in Christ, jew or gentile Gal 4:28
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Paul here is not just speaking to ethnic jews ! And Yes, the Children of Promise is Israel,God's Chosen People, from all nations..
Grubal Muruch
Member
I think you forgot to read these, Gentiles are grafted into the tree by Jesus Christ for these reasons:
• Jesus is the Son of God by the promise of the Messiah
• Jesus is the Son of Man by promise of God that there will be a virgin who will give birth.
• Jesus is the Son of Abraham by blood from the tribe of Judah
• Jesus is the King who will sit upon the throne of King David by promise of God
Grubal Muruch
Member
The Jews were, "The Chosen" historically. The "Messianic Jews" and Gentiles would be considered, "The Elect." Because of the Gentiles being "grafted in."
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
grub
Not all of them, only a small remnant ! Matt 22:14
14For many are called, but few are chosen.
Not all of them, only a small remnant ! Matt 22:14
14For many are called, but few are chosen.
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
The scripture makes it quite clear that God has a Elect People, A Special People whom He set His Love upon from Everlasting, and it is all those He Loved and Chose in His Son before the world was Jn 17:23-24
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
God Loved them [The Church] as He Loved His Son ! And as He Loved His Son before the foundation of the world, so Loved He all those Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world !
Lets notice how that phrase "before the foundation of the world" is used here and in Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Now we see how and why The Chosen were Loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, because they were One with Christ then, He the Head, they His Seed. For it is written Heb 2:11
11For both he that sanctifieth[Christ] and they who are sanctified [Those He offered Himself for]are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Just Like Adam and Eve were of One ! Gen 5:2
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
So it should not be any misunderstanding who it is that is God's Special Chosen People Loved in Christ before the foundation of the world. These are not ethnic jews either, though some of them included, but its everyone, gentile or jew Chosen in Christ. Now was the book of Ephesians wrote only to ethnic jews ? No sir, but both jew and gentile believers in Christ ! Now these Chosen ones Eph 1:4 are God's Elect, a People He has Chosen to Salvation, and the Only People that God will Save, His Israel. It is these only that have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, because they were God's Elect or Chosen. Writing to them in 1 Pet 1:2,18-20
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Peter tells them [The Elect] this in verses 18-20
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Notice, but was Manifest in these times FOR YOU ! That is the Elect of vs 2, not everyone without exception..
Now it should be noted that the Chosen in Eph 1:4 and the Elect in 1 Pet 1:2 are the same Persons, the same greek word is used in the greek ! The word in Eph 1:4 is:eklegomai and means:
to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self
a) choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples
b) choosing one for an office
c) of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight
In 1 Pet 1:2 it is the word eklektos:
picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
This word is from the preceding one of Eph 1:4 The obvious connection is picked out, Chosen by God.
This is just as the Israelites were Chosen or picked out separate from all other People of the Earth Deut 7:6-7
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
As we can see, God's Love and God's choosing go hand and hand. God does not Love whom He did not Choose in Christ !
A word about Deut 7:6-7, God was talking about His Elect in Christ here that He Loved and Chose, and not the whole Nation as a Whole, remember, many were called, but only few were Chosen ! The words of those verses therefore could not apply to all of that Nation without exception, because all without exception were not Chosen ! It was only a remnant according to the Election of Grace Rom 11:5
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
That would be those ethnic jews who were given Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began, along with elect gentiles 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
God Loved them [The Church] as He Loved His Son ! And as He Loved His Son before the foundation of the world, so Loved He all those Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world !
Lets notice how that phrase "before the foundation of the world" is used here and in Eph 1:4
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Now we see how and why The Chosen were Loved by the Father before the foundation of the world, because they were One with Christ then, He the Head, they His Seed. For it is written Heb 2:11
11For both he that sanctifieth[Christ] and they who are sanctified [Those He offered Himself for]are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Just Like Adam and Eve were of One ! Gen 5:2
2Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
So it should not be any misunderstanding who it is that is God's Special Chosen People Loved in Christ before the foundation of the world. These are not ethnic jews either, though some of them included, but its everyone, gentile or jew Chosen in Christ. Now was the book of Ephesians wrote only to ethnic jews ? No sir, but both jew and gentile believers in Christ ! Now these Chosen ones Eph 1:4 are God's Elect, a People He has Chosen to Salvation, and the Only People that God will Save, His Israel. It is these only that have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, because they were God's Elect or Chosen. Writing to them in 1 Pet 1:2,18-20
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Peter tells them [The Elect] this in verses 18-20
18Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
Notice, but was Manifest in these times FOR YOU ! That is the Elect of vs 2, not everyone without exception..
Now it should be noted that the Chosen in Eph 1:4 and the Elect in 1 Pet 1:2 are the same Persons, the same greek word is used in the greek ! The word in Eph 1:4 is:eklegomai and means:
to pick out, choose, to pick or choose out for one's self
a) choosing one out of many, i.e. Jesus choosing his disciples
b) choosing one for an office
c) of God choosing whom he judged fit to receive his favours and separated from the rest of mankind to be peculiarly his own and to be attended continually by his gracious oversight
In 1 Pet 1:2 it is the word eklektos:
picked out, chosen
a) chosen by God,
1) to obtain salvation through Christ
a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God
This word is from the preceding one of Eph 1:4 The obvious connection is picked out, Chosen by God.
This is just as the Israelites were Chosen or picked out separate from all other People of the Earth Deut 7:6-7
6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
As we can see, God's Love and God's choosing go hand and hand. God does not Love whom He did not Choose in Christ !
A word about Deut 7:6-7, God was talking about His Elect in Christ here that He Loved and Chose, and not the whole Nation as a Whole, remember, many were called, but only few were Chosen ! The words of those verses therefore could not apply to all of that Nation without exception, because all without exception were not Chosen ! It was only a remnant according to the Election of Grace Rom 11:5
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
That would be those ethnic jews who were given Grace in Christ Jesus before the world began, along with elect gentiles 2 Tim 1:9
9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
Grubal Muruch
Member
The Jews were, as a nation (corporate)the "chosen." The elect is made up of Gentile and Jewish believers...The Gentiles being, grafted in...This particular group, comes to Christ individually, not as a nation or people...
stovebolts
Member
Both Zipporah (Wife of Moses) and Ruth (Grandson of David) were Gentile ;)
Not only that, but many Egyptians left Egypt and went with Moses when they were driven out from Egypt.
The body is made of many parts. Individually, they can do nothing, but as a community, we form a body under the head, which is Christ.
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stovebolts
Member
Savedbygrace57 said:
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savedbygrace57
Guest
The remnant was. All the rest of the nation of the physical descendants of Abraham were not..Considered in and of themselves as ethnic jews, they were nothing,just like sodom and Gomorrah Isa 1:9
9Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
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savedbygrace57
Guest
1 Peter 1:1-3
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Pet 2:9
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Many adversaries of the Truth try to tell us that 1 Peter is written to only ethnic jews, and so would have us to believe that where Peter calls them the Elect and a Holy Nation, that this is only to the ethnic jews. There is two reasons for this. #1 Because of the designation of an Holy Nation found in Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And because Peter calls them strangers scattered in vs 1
They believe it only pertains to jewish believers who were scattered from the persecution here Acts 8:1
1And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Scripture here plainly informs us that it was the Church scattered. Yes it may have been comprised early on with believing ethnic jews, but nevertheless it was still the Church. What Church ? This One Matt 16:18
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
It was Christ's Church, His Body !
This Church Acts 20:28
28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
It is the Church that was purchased with His own Blood ! Now, is this Church restricted to only ethnic jews ? If not, then neither is the Church in Acts 8:1
So the question is asked again, was 1 Peter written only to ethnic jews ? No it was not, it was written to believers in Christ, His Church, where there is neither jew or gentile, but both are One in Christ Eph 2:14
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
This letter was written to believers, Christ Sheep, scattered throughout the Roman Province, Pontus, Galatia [as in Galatians where we know gentile believers existed] Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. This was a very ethnic diverse province, influenced by Grecio Roman Culture. That some of the recipients were probably gentiles is true because of 1 Pet 1:14
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
The term former ignorance is a gentile perception Acts 17:30
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 14:15-16
15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
We are also aware that ethnic jews ,who before conversion, though very zealous in the jews religion, also were in Ignorance Rom 10:1-3
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
So 1 Pet 1:14 can actually apply to either or, jews or gentiles, but the point is now, that they are Believers in Christ, together they make up an Holy Nation 1 Pet 2:9..
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1 Pet 2:9
9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
Many adversaries of the Truth try to tell us that 1 Peter is written to only ethnic jews, and so would have us to believe that where Peter calls them the Elect and a Holy Nation, that this is only to the ethnic jews. There is two reasons for this. #1 Because of the designation of an Holy Nation found in Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
And because Peter calls them strangers scattered in vs 1
They believe it only pertains to jewish believers who were scattered from the persecution here Acts 8:1
1And Saul was consenting unto his death. And at that time there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem; and they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles.
Scripture here plainly informs us that it was the Church scattered. Yes it may have been comprised early on with believing ethnic jews, but nevertheless it was still the Church. What Church ? This One Matt 16:18
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
It was Christ's Church, His Body !
This Church Acts 20:28
28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
It is the Church that was purchased with His own Blood ! Now, is this Church restricted to only ethnic jews ? If not, then neither is the Church in Acts 8:1
So the question is asked again, was 1 Peter written only to ethnic jews ? No it was not, it was written to believers in Christ, His Church, where there is neither jew or gentile, but both are One in Christ Eph 2:14
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
This letter was written to believers, Christ Sheep, scattered throughout the Roman Province, Pontus, Galatia [as in Galatians where we know gentile believers existed] Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. This was a very ethnic diverse province, influenced by Grecio Roman Culture. That some of the recipients were probably gentiles is true because of 1 Pet 1:14
14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
The term former ignorance is a gentile perception Acts 17:30
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 14:15-16
15And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
We are also aware that ethnic jews ,who before conversion, though very zealous in the jews religion, also were in Ignorance Rom 10:1-3
1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
So 1 Pet 1:14 can actually apply to either or, jews or gentiles, but the point is now, that they are Believers in Christ, together they make up an Holy Nation 1 Pet 2:9..
S
savedbygrace57
Guest
All Spiritual Blessings will be given the Elect !
Eph 1:3-4
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
All of the Elect, the Chosen of God shall be given in time, all necessary spiritual blessings to save them experientially by Grace, By Grace through Faith. They will be given a New Birth, they will be Called, and shall be experientially saved because they are the Special Chosen of God, and through Christ death all has been secured for them, He is a Complete Saviour unto them ! For God hath raised up unto Israel [ Elect People] a Saviour ! Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel[His Elect] a Saviour, Jesus:
Eph 1:3-4
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
All of the Elect, the Chosen of God shall be given in time, all necessary spiritual blessings to save them experientially by Grace, By Grace through Faith. They will be given a New Birth, they will be Called, and shall be experientially saved because they are the Special Chosen of God, and through Christ death all has been secured for them, He is a Complete Saviour unto them ! For God hath raised up unto Israel [ Elect People] a Saviour ! Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel[His Elect] a Saviour, Jesus:
Grubal Muruch
Member
Of course we mustn't forget that our faith begins the Salvation process. And that God has given us the "free-will" to choose...
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savedbygrace57
Guest
gb
Thats according to your religion,not mine. The God and Christ I serve, Faith is one of the spiritual blessings that accompanies their salvation !
Thats according to your religion,not mine. The God and Christ I serve, Faith is one of the spiritual blessings that accompanies their salvation !
Grubal Muruch
Member
That's true. We have "different" Gospels...